Opioids Health benefit from Opiates/Opioids

[nznity]

Hello there fellow psychonauts,
I've read countless of times some health benefits regarding opiates/opioids. For example there's a myth(?) idk if it is true that when you take opiates on a regular basis you don't get sick. Another one is that they make you live longer/stay young/slows down your metabolism or something. Is it true all of these things? Are there any studies regarding these subjects, I would like to know more about them. For example yeah, the past year that ive been using morphine almost everyday i didnt get sick one single day in almost a year, when i stopped for 2 weeks, i immediately catched a cold. Other thing that ive noticed is that since i started using opiates(around 8 years or so) i haven't aged that much compared to other ppl that are the same age as me(started at 17,im turning 25 in a week). Please if anyone have scientific data regarding this topic, can you share it please. Im very interested, Thanks.
Nick(NZN)

 

[Sertürner]

It seems that opioid use has the ability to interact with the immune system in a variety of ways. There is data showing that chronic use (this study defines chronic use as 24 months) can suppress the immune system. This may play a factor in why you dont "get sick". In reality you are probably still catching the colds but your body is not responding to the virus and thus the nasty inflammatory response that makes a person feel so shitty is not presenting. But this ultimately is a negative effect of chronic use because you are allowing your body to become more susceptible to disease.

Opioid System Modulates the Immune Function: A Review

 

[nznity]

It seems that opioid use has the ability to interact with the immune system in a variety of ways. There is data showing that chronic use (this study defines chronic use as 24 months) can suppress the immune system. This may play a factor in why you dont "get sick". In reality you are probably still catching the colds but your body is not responding to the virus and thus the nasty inflammatory response that makes a person feel so shitty is not presenting. But this ultimately is a negative effect of chronic use because you are allowing your body to become more susceptible to disease.

Opioid System Modulates the Immune Function: A Review

That is the kinda info i was looking for! thank you so much, it is very interestingg... keep em coming! ?

 

[apocalypse_when]

I also think that if you are opiated 24/7 then something like a cold (which despite how us men act sometimes really isn't that big of a deal) just doesn't really register or phase you at all so you don't think you are sick..

I remember years ago having Australian Flu which was a real bitch but just hammering a load of oxycontin and all of a sudden it seemed to have reduced my symptoms by about 80%...of course it hasn't I just didn't care about them anymore....

Obviously there the big factor that most opiates, unlike a lot of other drugs, are remarkably non toxic and can be used for years and years without any systemic damage to organs or health in general... Obviously they are dangerous in overdose but assuming that doesn't happen, you can theoretically be on them for the rest of your life with hardly any ill effects on your general health.. Whether they actually improve health IDK but they don't really make it significantly worse.

 

[Echotango]

Um.... Do you not consider your Testosterone Level being the equal to a 80 Year Old Man since Opioids used 24/7 will INHIBIT your lUTEINIZING HORMONE 24/7 and even when stopping Opioids/Opiates like Methadone. Your Testosterone/Estrogen stays in the Toilet and is mainly one of the reasons for low sex drive on them. Similar to Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Users of Testosterone Injections that ust Post Cycle Therapy Drugs that Stimulate the body to make lUTEINIZING HORMONE again on it's OWN is what I have read to be the ONLY thing to kick start a 25 Year Old Male's Testosterone Levels on a Thread here but he never came back to Post whether the Results maintained themselves but he did say his Testosterone went from below 300 to 954 or something.

 

[apocalypse_when]

Meh, that's what TRT is for..

 

[Wilson Wilson]

It can be argued that for people with chronic pain, and therefore a legitimate need for opiates, their mental and physical health is improved as without opiates they'd find it hard to move and hard to keep a job, as a result they are going to be in bad shape physically due to lack of exercise and mentally they're likely to be depressed and anxious because they can't work or go out, all this compounds the serious effect pain has on limiting their lives.

But give that same person opiates, those problems are gone (or at least reduced significantly) so they are able to be functional humans. They can go out and get a job and socialise and exercise and this all makes them happier as they have no reason to be depressed anymore (situational depression).

So opiates in and of themselves don't have any real health benefits, but when used by someone with chronic pain they can enable that person to live a healthier life that's for sure. So indirectly at least they absolutely can do a lot of good.

I also wanna make another point real quick. Chronic use of pharma opiates in sensible doses, even if used for recreation, is far safer than chronic use of alcohol. Cuz opiates don't damage your brain, liver, kidneys, and all the other shit booze does.

With opiates if they're pure and you don't OD, there's no serious harm to the body, and any physical side effects like constipation or lower testosterone goes away when you stop using them.

Compare that to booze, if you kill your liver from drinking it won't magically heal itself if you stop.

This is not an endorsement for everyone to use opiates every day, but it is a simple reality that opiates are far safer than the most widely used recreational drug on the planet. Wish we had opium dens and pubs - let people choose their poison.

Finally from a historic standpoint, opium was first made illegal in the West not because it's harmful but because its use was associated with Asian immigrants and the authorities didn't want this foreign narcotic spreading to the white people. Alcohol on the other hand has a long history of being the socially acceptable "disgusting European poison" as Nietzsche put it.

 

[Sertürner]

Um.... Do you not consider your Testosterone Level being the equal to a 80 Year Old Man since Opioids used 24/7 will INHIBIT your lUTEINIZING HORMONE 24/7 and even when stopping Opioids/Opiates like Methadone. Your Testosterone/Estrogen stays in the Toilet and is mainly one of the reasons for low sex drive on them. Similar to Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Users of Testosterone Injections that ust Post Cycle Therapy Drugs that Stimulate the body to make lUTEINIZING HORMONE again on it's OWN is what I have read to be the ONLY thing to kick start a 25 Year Old Male's Testosterone Levels on a Thread here but he never came back to Post whether the Results maintained themselves but he did say his Testosterone went from below 300 to 954 or something.

I am pretty sure that most peoples testosterone levels return to normal after cessation of opioid use. Blood tests from my suboxone clinic showed I was extremely deficit in both testosterone and vitamin D (vitamin D being the lower of the two, it was an insane deficiency). This was years ago though and I recently had to have more blood tests to check for a possible lymphoma, everything is back to normal now that I'm off the opiates. This was just my experience however, and may vary between individuals. Could you provide some data about testosterone levels being permanently altered by chronic use?

Mr. Deeds

 

[Sertürner]

I also think that if you are opiated 24/7 then something like a cold (which despite how us men act sometimes really isn't that big of a deal) just doesn't really register or phase you at all so you don't think you are sick..

What are you talking about? A man cold is pure hell! It's a real thing hahaha.
WebMD › ... › Feature Stories Web results The Man Cold: Why Guys React Differently to Colds - WebMD

*Whoops I misread your post, I thought you were saying us men tried to seem like a cold was no big deal. I'm truly sorry you are also afflicted with this horrible condition.
Off topic to the OPs question now so let's get back to it and give him some data that is not about the horrors of the Man-Cold as I'm sure he knows plenty about.

 

[nznity]

It can be argued that for people with chronic pain, and therefore a legitimate need for opiates, their mental and physical health is improved as without opiates they'd find it hard to move and hard to keep a job, as a result they are going to be in bad shape physically due to lack of exercise and mentally they're likely to be depressed and anxious because they can't work or go out, all this compounds the serious effect pain has on limiting their lives.

But give that same person opiates, those problems are gone (or at least reduced significantly) so they are able to be functional humans. They can go out and get a job and socialise and exercise and this all makes them happier as they have no reason to be depressed anymore (situational depression).

So opiates in and of themselves don't have any real health benefits, but when used by someone with chronic pain they can enable that person to live a healthier life that's for sure. So indirectly at least they absolutely can do a lot of good.

I also wanna make another point real quick. Chronic use of pharma opiates in sensible doses, even if used for recreation, is far safer than chronic use of alcohol. Cuz opiates don't damage your brain, liver, kidneys, and all the other shit booze does.

With opiates if they're pure and you don't OD, there's no serious harm to the body, and any physical side effects like constipation or lower testosterone goes away when you stop using them.

Compare that to booze, if you kill your liver from drinking it won't magically heal itself if you stop.

This is not an endorsement for everyone to use opiates every day, but it is a simple reality that opiates are far safer than the most widely used recreational drug on the planet. Wish we had opium dens and pubs - let people choose their poison.

Finally from a historic standpoint, opium was first made illegal in the West not because it's harmful but because its use was associated with Asian immigrants and the authorities didn't want this foreign narcotic spreading to the white people. Alcohol on the other hand has a long history of being the socially acceptable "disgusting European poison" as Nietzsche put it.

Beautifully described the last part, well yeah IMHO everyone should be able to decide which poison they wanna indulge in. I would like Opium dens to still exist aswell, it would be cool to hang out with other fellow opiate enthusiasts. NZN

 

[nznity]

I am pretty sure that most peoples testosterone levels return to normal after cessation of opioid use. Blood tests from my suboxone clinic showed I was extremely deficit in both testosterone and vitamin D (vitamin D being the lower of the two, it was an insane deficiency). This was years ago though and I recently had to have more blood tests to check for a possible lymphoma, everything is back to normal now that I'm off the opiates. This was just my experience however, and may vary between individuals. Could you provide some data about testosterone levels being permanently altered by chronic use?

Mr. Deeds

I'm pretty sure Testosterone levels go back to normal after cessation of Opiates. Only in rare cases people end up with problems regarding low testosterone levels. Btw, who wants to have sex? when you're on opiates it's like having sex with yourself 8-12 hrs a day continuously.

 

[nznity]

I also think that if you are opiated 24/7 then something like a cold (which despite how us men act sometimes really isn't that big of a deal) just doesn't really register or phase you at all so you don't think you are sick..

I remember years ago having Australian Flu which was a real bitch but just hammering a load of oxycontin and all of a sudden it seemed to have reduced my symptoms by about 80%...of course it hasn't I just didn't care about them anymore....

Obviously there the big factor that most opiates, unlike a lot of other drugs, are remarkably non toxic and can be used for years and years without any systemic damage to organs or health in general... Obviously they are dangerous in overdose but assuming that doesn't happen, you can theoretically be on them for the rest of your life with hardly any ill effects on your general health.. Whether they actually improve health IDK but they don't really make it significantly worse.

Man, I've catched a cold when on opiates and trust me u can still feel the cold. It just helps a lot with all of the symptoms: Cold, Fever, muscular aches, cough, etc. BUT ITS NOT LIKE YOU DONT FEEL IT, you can still feel the cold. You just don't care because you're feeling pure bliss.

 

[apocalypse_when]

Man, I've catched a cold when on opiates and trust me u can still feel the cold. It just helps a lot with all of the symptoms: Cold, Fever, muscular aches, cough, etc. BUT ITS NOT LIKE YOU DONT FEEL IT, you can still feel the cold. You just don't care because you're feeling pure bliss.

Yeah that's more what I meant...it's like the pain of a surgery or broken bone.. You know it's there you just don't give a fuck anymore

 

[nznity]

Yeah that's more what I meant...it's like the pain of a surgery or broken bone.. You know it's there you just don't give a fuck anymore

Exactly, but it's really weird to catch a cold when you're on opiates that's what im intrigued about. It's like opiates help your immune system in some way. mhmm

 

[Quere]

I have only been sick a couple of times since being on opioids also. I kinda thought maybe because opioids are a bit of a cure all I just didn't notice the colds. I'm pretty sure they were sold as a 'cure all' back when they were all legal. And yeah it was made illegal largely because of racism and the association of smoking opium with Chinese immigrants.
European people at the same time and for a long time were knocking back laudanum and other forms of opiates. Once they got hypodermics you could buy in a department store a kit with a hypodermic and a vial of morphine and a vial of cocaine. But smoking opium was obviously just taking it too far so those yellow devils needed to be put in their place!

I was trying to explain this shit to my mum the other night when i went over there. Oh my god. Brick wall much. Just kept saying none of that matters because she a law abiding citizen and that what society needs it's okay to try and change it legally.

But I think breaking laws that are wrong is part of getting the laws changed. Because when the politicians see polls that say 70% of the country are breaking the law (or is the law broken already?) and smoked cannabis they realize it's safe to put their support behind legalisation

 

[nznity]

I have only been sick a couple of times since being on opioids also. I kinda thought maybe because opioids are a bit of a cure all I just didn't notice the colds. I'm pretty sure they were sold as a 'cure all' back when they were all legal. And yeah it was made illegal largely because of racism and the association of smoking opium with Chinese immigrants.
European people at the same time and for a long time were knocking back laudanum and other forms of opiates. Once they got hypodermics you could buy in a department store a kit with a hypodermic and a vial of morphine and a vial of cocaine. But smoking opium was obviously just taking it too far so those yellow devils needed to be put in their place!

I was trying to explain this shit to my mum the other night when i went over there. Oh my god. Brick wall much. Just kept saying none of that matters because she a law abiding citizen and that what society needs it's okay to try and change it legally.

But I think breaking laws that are wrong is part of getting the laws changed. Because when the politicians see polls that say 70% of the country are breaking the law (or is the law broken already?) and smoked cannabis they realize it's safe to put their support behind legalisation

hhahahaha law abiding citizen.....more like a zombie from the system :/ shame my family is the same, not that much but u get my point. hahahaha We psychonauts question everything hahahah.

 

[Gregorio888]

I have noticed something that's certainly connected to a suppressed immune system, though not yet mentioned. Growing up, starting in middle school and then accelerating through college, I had severe hay fever (allergy) attacks. They only would hit 3-6 times a year, but when they hit I'm in a constant sneezing fit, and even if I try to stay in classes or at jobs I get sent home since I'm such a mess.

Around college I noticed that when I started to feel an attack coming on, but then I dosed an opioid it seemed to head off the attack. The only anti-histamines that worked for me were 1st gen heavily sedating anti-histamines. They worked, though not as well, much slower, and would knock me out. With a opioid I'd end up energetic and feeling great. In college I only used opioids maybe once a month/avg. However, I always made sure to have some tramadol on hand (I'm a strong responder to tramadol.) I effectively ended my hay fever attacks by taking 50mg of tramadol when I felt an allergy attack on the verge of coming (recreationally I'd use 150-200mgs.)

I've lived a privileged life growing up, with a great family, but after college was a difficult time for me. I ended up making a half-assed attempt at suicide with a opioid/benzo/etoh OD, but instead found I could function when high (on opioids,) instead of laying in bed suicidal for months, and a week later got a job, lol. After a couple months I switched to Kratom since I knew it wasn't sustainable. I've been using Kratom multiple times daily for almost a decade. I've never had a hay fever attack in that time, with 3 exceptions, all during times I'd attempted to quit, I started getting those allergy attacks. But, I always failed at quitting within 2 weeks, and so I remain without hay fever. My brother had the same issues with hay fever growing up, did not become an opioid addict, and now has 12-24 attacks a year.

Soooooo, I guess opioids cure hay fever without the side effects of anti-histamines? (NOT WORTH IT FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD ACTUALLY USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO USE OPIOIDS!) There's my benefit, and yes I've had reduced colds, though working with SPED children and in hospitals, I still got sick, but I always seemed to get less sick then my coworkers. So yeah, another example of a suppressed immune system, which has so far been good, but will likely screw me one day if I never quit (and not worth the other problems they've caused, even being on the relatively mild Kratom as my opioid.)

 

[nznity]

I have noticed something that's certainly connected to a suppressed immune system, though not yet mentioned. Growing up, starting in middle school and then accelerating through college, I had severe hay fever (allergy) attacks. They only would hit 3-6 times a year, but when they hit I'm in a constant sneezing fit, and even if I try to stay in classes or at jobs I get sent home since I'm such a mess.

Around college I noticed that when I started to feel an attack coming on, but then I dosed an opioid it seemed to head off the attack. The only anti-histamines that worked for me were 1st gen heavily sedating anti-histamines. They worked, though not as well, much slower, and would knock me out. With a opioid I'd end up energetic and feeling great. In college I only used opioids maybe once a month/avg. However, I always made sure to have some tramadol on hand (I'm a strong responder to tramadol.) I effectively ended my hay fever attacks by taking 50mg of tramadol when I felt an allergy attack on the verge of coming (recreationally I'd use 150-200mgs.)

I've lived a privileged life growing up, with a great family, but after college was a difficult time for me. I ended up making a half-assed attempt at suicide with a opioid/benzo/etoh OD, but instead found I could function when high (on opioids,) instead of laying in bed suicidal for months, and a week later got a job, lol. After a couple months I switched to Kratom since I knew it wasn't sustainable. I've been using Kratom multiple times daily for almost a decade. I've never had a hay fever attack in that time, with 3 exceptions, all during times I'd attempted to quit, I started getting those allergy attacks. But, I always failed at quitting within 2 weeks, and so I remain without hay fever. My brother had the same issues with hay fever growing up, did not become an opioid addict, and now has 12-24 attacks a year.

Soooooo, I guess opioids cure hay fever without the side effects of anti-histamines? (NOT WORTH IT FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD ACTUALLY USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO USE OPIOIDS!) There's my benefit, and yes I've had reduced colds, though working with SPED children and in hospitals, I still got sick, but I always seemed to get less sick then my coworkers. So yeah, another example of a suppressed immune system, which has so far been good, but will likely screw me one day if I never quit (and not worth the other problems they've caused, even being on the relatively mild Kratom as my opioid.)

Interesting feedback from you, thanks for the info man. Glad you use your opiates responsibly, a lot of us can't do that. NZN

 

[HoldBack]

Opis are not known to have any beneficial effects in humans long term other than pain relief, cough suppression, and anti-diarrheal effects.

In the short term, it may be useful in combating depression and anxiety disorders but using opis to achieve those effects is straight up idiotic.

If you use opis regularly (ie are dependent), your health will suffer. On one hand, you won’t have all of your organs fail (like alcohol) or neurotoxicity (like storms). On the other hand, you become way more likely to contract infections like hiv or hep and have other health problems related to behavior (the drugs themselves are largely benign).

Lope nearly killed me with its cardio toxicity. Multiple episodes of vtac deteriorating into torsades.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I don't think Supra Therapeutic levels of Lopermide fall into the same class as opioids used at regular to relatively high levels. I mean, even an opioid abuser only uses around 10x the recommended dosage. Not usually into the hundreds of times the effective dose.

Lope is so much more of a peripheral opioid as well, it's difficult to throw that in with others that are just as much central and peripheral. Even Diphenoxylate would be more fitting than Loperamide for this thread.

I don't know of any others that mess with the hERG cardio pace making system like Lope either, aside from Methadone above 200mg. At least it's doing quite a bit before hitting that level,