hi all. ive been using pretty much all opiates for about 8 years. i went on suboxone for a cpl years, came off, started using again, went on methadone maintenance for the first 8 months of this year at avg of 65mg a day, then had to come off cold turkey, went on suboxone (12mg a day) for a month, came off cold turkey and couldnt handle it so i started taking around 50mg of methadone two times a week to stave off the wd when it got too bad for me to handle. i just got back on suboxone (currently taking around 8mg a day) and i need to kick this asap! my plan is to kick the subs completely next week, which would mean ive been takin the subs for about 2 and a half weeks, and i got ahold of a rehab center that might just take me in. my question is what exactly am i going to be wd from, the dones or the subs, or both?! like i said i was taking the dones from about january to september this year, went on subs for a month, dones a cpl times a week for a month, then back to subs for about 3 weeks. i dont know exactly what im in store for, or if i should even go to rehab or just try to ride it out myself, or if i should stay on the subs(which i really dont want to do either). ive seen so many things online that say done wd can last for months which scares the shit outta me. any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids having wd problems!!
- Thread starter pahn
- Start date
Id taper from the subs over the course of a month or so. Rehab has a horribly relapse rate, and it's highly unlikely (here anyway) that any rehab is going to taper you. Here they pump you full of Seroquel and 12 steps and charge you 30k for it.
Obviously cold turkey detox has not served you well in the past. Which isn't surprising, buprenorphine and methadone are almost always tapered. My advice? Slow down, don't be in such a hurry... this is one thing you want to do right. Use the time you're tapering to find some real recovery, doing the work on yourself and addressing the issues that caused you to use cannot be more important.
^^This
Dont rush into decisions that youre not entirely sure/comfortable with,since youre using opiates for quite a while,it wouldnt hurt to take a little longer time for the sake of doing it right(meaning having a proper taper plan so you wont feel the need to relapse).
Id make a wild guess and say that since youve been on/off different long acting maintainance opioids(bupe,methadone) youll pretty much have "that kind" of WDs,meaning not short and hellish(like a short acting full agonist like heroin would do) but more likely (relatively)longer and milder ones(but just "annoying)."
I strongly believe that with a little patience and a good taper plan,you would be comfortable enough when youd "jump off" the subs,although i would mostly worry about the psychological part,since you were using some kind of opiate for quite long.
Dont rush into decisions that youre not entirely sure/comfortable with,since youre using opiates for quite a while,it wouldnt hurt to take a little longer time for the sake of doing it right(meaning having a proper taper plan so you wont feel the need to relapse).
Id make a wild guess and say that since youve been on/off different long acting maintainance opioids(bupe,methadone) youll pretty much have "that kind" of WDs,meaning not short and hellish(like a short acting full agonist like heroin would do) but more likely (relatively)longer and milder ones(but just "annoying)."
I strongly believe that with a little patience and a good taper plan,you would be comfortable enough when youd "jump off" the subs,although i would mostly worry about the psychological part,since you were using some kind of opiate for quite long.
Hello pahn
Kicking ASAP is never a good plan. always maintain a goal that can be reached without having to deal with PAWS Tapering is the only way. First off although Temgesic are easier to take and easier to be prescribed in place of juice. Depending on where you are from you may be given Methadone in Pill form. To me though replacing methadone for Temgesic Sublinguals is replacing one long lasting opioid for another equally long lasting opioid so they are probably equal in bringing on severe long lasting PAWS
Judging from my experience the methadone 1mg/1ml PAWS symptoms will last about 21 days but you can be over the worse of the physical after 8-10 days
Methadone has a longish half life so can linger in your body for up to 2 days but usually around 32-40 hours if you are using constantly. So after this time you will be experiencing PAWS symptoms as your body tries to adjust and natural endorphin can start to work in to the body. This can take up to another 5-7 days of physical PAWS and you may experience being uncomfortable and not relaxed and some insomnia can also follow. Subutex withdrawal can be just as bad and probably equal to that of methadone. You should try and speak to a doctor and tell him you want to slowly reduce off subutex. If it was methadone it would be easier to drop off 2ml every 3 days or so until you were at 10ml and then move to 1ml drops every 4 days and this gives the body time to catch up with the reduction of opioids in your system.
I am not sure about Subutex as they come in tablet form but the Doctor or Treatment Center could put you on a reduction plan that would be more comfortable for you. In all cases the taper needs to be reduced as you get lower and the amount of days dosing increased. Remember as you drop lower your drop dosages increase in percentage so:
100ml down to 90ml = 10% drop
but
10ml down to 5ml = 50% drop
You should always drop no more than 10% at a time and space a few days inbetween to cover for the long half life of Methadone and/or Temgesic Sublinguals
LemonJack
Kicking ASAP is never a good plan. always maintain a goal that can be reached without having to deal with PAWS Tapering is the only way. First off although Temgesic are easier to take and easier to be prescribed in place of juice. Depending on where you are from you may be given Methadone in Pill form. To me though replacing methadone for Temgesic Sublinguals is replacing one long lasting opioid for another equally long lasting opioid so they are probably equal in bringing on severe long lasting PAWS
Judging from my experience the methadone 1mg/1ml PAWS symptoms will last about 21 days but you can be over the worse of the physical after 8-10 days
Methadone has a longish half life so can linger in your body for up to 2 days but usually around 32-40 hours if you are using constantly. So after this time you will be experiencing PAWS symptoms as your body tries to adjust and natural endorphin can start to work in to the body. This can take up to another 5-7 days of physical PAWS and you may experience being uncomfortable and not relaxed and some insomnia can also follow. Subutex withdrawal can be just as bad and probably equal to that of methadone. You should try and speak to a doctor and tell him you want to slowly reduce off subutex. If it was methadone it would be easier to drop off 2ml every 3 days or so until you were at 10ml and then move to 1ml drops every 4 days and this gives the body time to catch up with the reduction of opioids in your system.
I am not sure about Subutex as they come in tablet form but the Doctor or Treatment Center could put you on a reduction plan that would be more comfortable for you. In all cases the taper needs to be reduced as you get lower and the amount of days dosing increased. Remember as you drop lower your drop dosages increase in percentage so:
100ml down to 90ml = 10% drop
but
10ml down to 5ml = 50% drop
You should always drop no more than 10% at a time and space a few days inbetween to cover for the long half life of Methadone and/or Temgesic Sublinguals
LemonJack
You need rehab .
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Smoky
Bluelight Crew
What type of rehab? There are many levels of care. Have them sign an roa with a specialist if you can find one that can work with you while you are in rehab. Unless rehab has a medical detox on site. How about outpatient with an adjunct specialist to monitor a taper?
Regardless, yes… set a goal and follow it as well as what Rhun says, if you're going to do a taper you'll want to look at your underlying issues to get the ball rolling to prevent lapses…
Good luck.
Off em all myself.. It was definitely a long ride… But worth it …
Regardless, yes… set a goal and follow it as well as what Rhun says, if you're going to do a taper you'll want to look at your underlying issues to get the ball rolling to prevent lapses…
Good luck.
Off em all myself.. It was definitely a long ride… But worth it …
Okay so I'm new to this but I really need a few questions answered... Okay first I'll give some of my background. First off my drug of choice is more, more of anything that will get me high. But I've been able to kick everything but the opiates, the H, and the methadone. I've been using one of those three daily for about nine years. I've been on the methadone monster for 4 of those nine years. This past time at the clinic I was there for a year and a half, and and my highest dose was 140. I began my detox going down ten mgs every week till I got too 30 mgs. I stayed at 30 for two months then went dropped too 20 stayed for a month then went back up to 30, I then went down 3 mgs a day all the way to zero. I honestly didn't feel any wds till I got to like 6 mgs. So after my last dose I went 69 hours with nada then took 2 mgs of suboxone then another two today. Tomorrow I will tak one mg then one the next day, then a half a mg until the rest of the eight mg sub is gone. Will this just prolong my wds or will it make them a little less severe? If it does prolong my wds how long and bad will they be? I've quit the done twice before both times ct, one time at 120 and one time at 60, both times where hell on earth and lasted for at least a month. Since I was so low on my done it shouldn't be that bad should it? I mean at my 69 hour mark with nothing I wasn't like in terrible wds. Someone please tell me what to expect. Btw I'm 24, 6'3'', 177 lbs, active, and very high metabolism.
Taper the suboxone by 1/8 of an 8mg strip until you get to 2mg. Celebrate because you are halfway there. Source 2mg strips and taper by 1/8 of a strip until you're off. You are trying to train your brain not to be tolerant of opiates, this takes time. You need your opiate receptors to be sensitive enough to respond to your normal brain chemicals. Otherwise your brain isn't going to work right and you'll be at risk for relapse. Don't punish yourself, you've been punished plenty enough as it is, I suspect. Focus on the task at hand.
Erikmen
Bluelight Crew
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A question here; why doesn´t it work with methadone?? It should be strong enough.
killacali000
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2014
- Messages
- 53
gabapentin helps many peoples wds a lot so you could look into that
Smoky
Bluelight Crew
Gabapentin, I didn't like but it worked, especially in the morning for withdrawals.
Erikmen
Bluelight Crew
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Yeah, but it does not make it better.
THIS IS A PLEASE FORGIVE ME POST: (OPIATE WD AID)
Temgesic Sublinguals or Subutex are long lasting opioid. I say long lasting because like physeptone it has a long(ish) half life. The Subutex also does have some antagonist effects to some opiates by blocking the mu receptors. I have to drop this although this is frowned upon on this site because of the amount of times it has been hashed and rehashed on here but it can work in smaller doses.
Loperamide Hydrochloride or better known as Immodium AD can also attach to the mu receptor giving temporary relief from other opioids. In doses of 12mg to 16mg it could be used as a short term bridge from tailing off Subutex. You would need to drop every 36 hours instead of 24 hours after the first two days dosing and then taper down to 2mg on the last dose. You would drop 2mg every 35 hours. This should take about 8 or 9 days.
This would get you over the physical dependence of the Subutex. Although they do have some PAWS attached to them they are minor compared to Methadone or Subutex.
There is debate about whether Loperamide actually does or doesn't pass the BBB and or if it is rejected from the BBB by the pgp inhibitors but that does not matter because Loperamide has no recreational value so it can not be abused. I mention this because it might be a lot more comfortable to taper off. DO NOT TAKE IN HIGH DOSES IT IS !!!LIFE THREATENING!!!
16mg every 36 hours IS THE MAX DOSE and drink lots of water and the odd laxative to help with the bowel movements. I used 1 heaped teaspoon of Health Salts once a day with warm water and it worked a treat. Do not read old threads where they tell you to take handfuls. This stuff can work with Opiate withdrawal.
Drop 24 hours after your last Subutex. You can hold out.
Just throwing it out there..AGAIN
LemonJack
Temgesic Sublinguals or Subutex are long lasting opioid. I say long lasting because like physeptone it has a long(ish) half life. The Subutex also does have some antagonist effects to some opiates by blocking the mu receptors. I have to drop this although this is frowned upon on this site because of the amount of times it has been hashed and rehashed on here but it can work in smaller doses.
Loperamide Hydrochloride or better known as Immodium AD can also attach to the mu receptor giving temporary relief from other opioids. In doses of 12mg to 16mg it could be used as a short term bridge from tailing off Subutex. You would need to drop every 36 hours instead of 24 hours after the first two days dosing and then taper down to 2mg on the last dose. You would drop 2mg every 35 hours. This should take about 8 or 9 days.
This would get you over the physical dependence of the Subutex. Although they do have some PAWS attached to them they are minor compared to Methadone or Subutex.
There is debate about whether Loperamide actually does or doesn't pass the BBB and or if it is rejected from the BBB by the pgp inhibitors but that does not matter because Loperamide has no recreational value so it can not be abused. I mention this because it might be a lot more comfortable to taper off. DO NOT TAKE IN HIGH DOSES IT IS !!!LIFE THREATENING!!!
16mg every 36 hours IS THE MAX DOSE and drink lots of water and the odd laxative to help with the bowel movements. I used 1 heaped teaspoon of Health Salts once a day with warm water and it worked a treat. Do not read old threads where they tell you to take handfuls. This stuff can work with Opiate withdrawal.
Drop 24 hours after your last Subutex. You can hold out.
Just throwing it out there..AGAIN
LemonJack
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