• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

HARM REDUCTION AND RC's

vecktor

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
2,130
I was going to post this yesterday, but didn't get round to it. looks rather prescient now.

It has been evident of late that there is going to be another round of very serious incidents involving RC's very soon unless people get more sensible. it is very similar to the time before web tryp where any idiot with a credit card could get anything in Pihkal or Tihkal.

Dying or getting hospitalized due to an RC will simply draw attention to the field get things banned and fuck it up for people who are sensible, I suppose it is also pretty serious for whoever dies or gets fucked up, but there is a darwinian selection argument???

this has all been said many times before, but I will make some points which hopefully people will take to heart.

With a fairly unknown substance follow the Shulgin bioassay method, he has made it mostly intact through 8 decades. I recommend it.


read all the information about the substance
, and try to look for related substances which are medically used, look at the reported side effects and toxicology. If serious side effects are noted then do this calculation: is getting high with unknown substance X worth the potential side effects? just because something is technically legal it does not make it safer than the illegal alternatives, quite often the illegal alternative is much safer. It seems that a lot of these newer RC's are coming from people without much of a clue with respect to pharmacology and chemistry, so the fact that it is available does not mean that someone has selected on the basis of safety or effect.

once you have decided it is worth it, and in my opinion a lot of the substances that are out there are not worth it, then work out your personal dose.

get an accurate balance
1-10mg accuracy or better, they are not expensive, a good balance will cost less than 1g of RC.

know what you have. get it analysed if possible or see if someone else has had it analysed. Suppliers have been known to substitute materials, either by accident or deliberately, (it is mostly the latter). there is also limited quality control


test a very small dose
, by this I mean 1/10 of the reported active dose. look for sensitivity and other adverse effects. if there are nothing of concern then wait for any tolerance to disappear 2-3 days minimum.
then take a small dose, if there are doses reported then take the lower doses reported. during the initial trials do not combine with other drugs including alcohol. if you want to take two doses or a dose and a booster weigh the material and label it before you take the first dose. (weighing stuff whilst intoxicated is probably the most common fuck up). If possible keep notes of the effects of this low dose, if there are any signs of toxicity, low blood pressure, high blood pressure, rapid pulse, high temperature low temperature, difficulty urinating, head aches shaking, tremors, the aura feeling prior to fitting, etc etc take note.

if the substance shows serious adverse effects at this low dose, throw it away. period. no ifs, no buts, throw it away and move on.

don't go for massive macho doses, it is not a competition. Indeed when I see obscene doses consumed I tend to immediately think: Dangerous Twat rather than intrepid psychonaut.

whether it is positive or negative post your report online,
put it in the Trip Reports, you can do this anonymously.

with the inevitable appearance of RC opioids, being sensible becomes even more important, the compounds that would seem likely to appear are exceptionally potent and potentially lethal.

food for thought: 10% give or take of prescription pharmaceuticals are associated with severe adverse effects, and that is for drugs that have been through full trials. look at how many drugs have been withdrawn from the market due to severe side effects which only became obvious later on,also it takes hundreds if not thousands of compounds to be made and tested before one is good enough to make it through to early stage trials and ask why should RC compounds be any different.

be sensible, respect these materials, stay safe, stay alive.

It is very easy to die, very hard to be resurrected once this happens.
it is also very easy to do yourself serious damage.

I know I am shouting in the breeze, and I wonder sometimes why I bother

Vecktor
 
I know I am shouting in the breeze, and I wonder sometimes why I bother
I really hope not! I thought this was a wonderful post. It gave me pause and made me reflect. Thank you for typing this out!
 
Indeed, if people don't respect and protect these compounds, they'll just go away forever. Always triple-check what you are taking and do not attempt to estimate doses, buy a fucking scale. In general, always take a moment to step back and think: "what are the risks involved with this chemical and am I prepared to handle them?" Before you ever use a particular compound ('research' or not), it is important to take a brief pause and think; consider the risks involved and determine whether or not the potential benefits clearly exceed those risks.

The last thing these chemicals need is bad press because people don't respect them and end up acting like douchebags, or worse, hurting themselves. I really hope we don't see opioid research chemicals, that would be far too dangerous and is the reason things like the analogue act were created (the alpha-methyl-fentanyl scandal). Remember, douchebags killed LSD and that is one of the safest chemicals (from a therapeutic index point of view) known to mankind.

Also, vecktor has an excellent point: "if the substance shows serious adverse effects at this low dose, throw it away. period. no ifs, no buts, throw it away and move on." Is it really worth potentially killing yourself for a nasty feeling, side-effect laden chemical? There are plenty of great, safer chemicals out there, so just swallow your pride, accept the cognitive dissonance and throw that shit out.
 
Last edited:
Wow! That one had to be said. And you said it in the right words. For my personal sake, I agree in particular to the part:

"Dying or getting hospitalized due to an RC will simply draw attention to the field get things banned and fuck it up for people who are sensible"

This one cannot be repeated too often. I violently dislike those fuckers that cause more and more precious substances disappear from the legal market. Want an up-to-date example? With taking effect on the 1st march of this year, Salvia divinorum is Schedule I in Germany. Schedule-fucking-1! I love(d) this stuff. Damn!

Thx Vecktor! Your post is absolutely appreciated.

Murphy
 
I'll remind you that vendors are found sometimes selling batches that are impure (with impurities I've heard up to 60%!). They do not often ever know what the impurities are in the batch...is it toxic to your liver or heart? Neurotoxic? Its a crapshoot sometimes...vendors are certainly not looking out for your health...they just want your money.

There are a lot of risks getting these chemicals. You should think very carefully about using them.

peace and take care of yourself and friends,
samadhi smiles
 
Where would be a good starting point for someone to start to look for a place or service to have these compounds tested for purity and actual content?
 
Damien8787 said:
Where would be a good starting point for someone to start to look for a place or service to have these compounds tested for purity and actual content?
In the US? I do not know of any public test services. In europe, apparently they are much more common.

In the US, hopefully somebody can have more input than me...my best advice is to know a chemist who has access to the proper tools... sorry I couldn't help more :\
 
^ lol ya. I wouldn't really expect that it would necessarily be public or cheap. I guess google is your friend.
 
test a very small dose, by this I mean 1/10 of the reported active dose. look for sensitivity and other adverse effects. if there are nothing of concern then wait for any tolerance to disappear 2-3 days minimum.
then take a small dose, if there are doses reported then take the lower doses reported. during the initial trials do not combine with other drugs including alcohol. if you want to take two doses or a dose and a booster weigh the material and label it before you take the first dose. (weighing stuff whilst intoxicated is probably the most common fuck up). If possible keep notes of the effects of this low dose, if there are any signs of toxicity, low blood pressure, high blood pressure, rapid pulse, high temperature low temperature, difficulty urinating, head aches shaking, tremors, the aura feeling prior to fitting, etc etc take note.

Vektor, I started a thread about allergy/toxicity testing yesterday- I'm gonna post that there okay?
 
MurphyClox said:
Wow! That one had to be said. And you said it in the right words. For my personal sake, I agree in particular to the part:

"Dying or getting hospitalized due to an RC will simply draw attention to the field get things banned and fuck it up for people who are sensible"

This one cannot be repeated too often. I violently dislike those fuckers that cause more and more precious substances disappear from the legal market. Want an up-to-date example? With taking effect on the 1st march of this year, Salvia divinorum is Schedule I in Germany. Schedule-fucking-1! I love(d) this stuff. Damn!

Thx Vecktor! Your post is absolutely appreciated.

Murphy

I feel the same way about certain chemicals being harder and harder to find on store shelves in the US. Being an aspiring chemist is getting to be a difficult hobby these days! God forbid someone actually wants to learn the central science independently. That must mean they're c00king drugs! :-|
 
Jamshyd to the rescue once again :) That's exactly what I was looking for man.

smiling_samadhi said:
I'll remind you that vendors are found sometimes selling batches that are impure (with impurities I've heard up to 60%!). They do not often ever know what the impurities are in the batch...is it toxic to your liver or heart? Neurotoxic? Its a crapshoot sometimes...vendors are certainly not looking out for your health...they just want your money.

There are a lot of risks getting these chemicals. You should think very carefully about using them.

peace and take care of yourself and friends,
samadhi smiles
+1.
vendors have been known to ship a completely different chemical altogether which can(needless to say) cause some serious problems

Damien said:
Where would be a good starting point for someone to start to look for a place or service to have these compounds tested for purity and actual content?
well, depending on the specific chem, a reagent could help some, but not a whole lot I'm afraid. And it's not like people just have GC/MS lying around ;)
 
Last edited:
Very true words vecktor.
The people we have to worry about, unfortunately, probably aren't going to be the ones that are readers of the Advanced Drug Discussion forum.

I have to add: If anyone notes a particular RC vendor behaving in a unethical fashion (such as shipping the wrong chemcial!!!), boycott them, and ask your friends to do so too if they use them, as well as sending them a complaint.

Also: DO NOT post sources anywhere. We do NOT want these new RCs falling into the hands of the public. It is a major disaster waiting to happen.
 
i think good health and not over doing RC's should be fine as long as they have some testing and info out there, and ya know what ya getting.
I think going strong with extra vitamins free redical scavengers, amino acids etc. should help, as well as resting after and being in good set and setting.
 
Damien8787 said:
Where would be a good starting point for someone to start to look for a place or service to have these compounds tested for purity and actual content?

As some of the others mention, I guess the best way is to become friends with someone who's a chemist or who studies chemistry and thus have acess to GC/MS or similar equipment. A reagent would only help you to identify traces of substances, but will tell you very little about the possible impurities and/or the purity of the compound.

As for the thread: Thumbs up!
I hope many people will read this. At least those who are planning on experimenting with RC's.
 
preaching to the converted, sigh

the central catch-22 in this scene is the federal analog act, vendors cannot caution or inform people so people proceed without caution or information. its stupid and unfortunate but its reality, and it makes one realize exactly how important resources like bluelight are, if it wasent for BL how many of us would have taken 100mg or more of MMQ and had seizures? sometimes the information is not out there even for the cautious, has anyone read that recent article about 5-meo-dipt neurotoxicity its scary what we dont know.

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/106/1/2/_pdf
 
Top