⭐️ Social ⭐️ Hard drugs now sold 'legally' in Canada

[Phobos]

Fellow harm reduction forum members, 11 year member of this website here. Mother. Unaffiliated voter. Probably lightest usage of my life currently right now after 21 years of heavy substance abuse since age 15.

Please tell me what YOU see are the pros AND cons to this?

I can't believe this is real. This is insane to me.

I don't see people that would not use drugs start now because of this guy.
If the purity is actually guaranteed and is constant, the risk of overdose goes down.
I don't see any cons honestly.

Prohibition got us where we are now so that's pretty much guaranteed to not work anyway.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

There’s a lot of cons. I personally am 100% for legalization of ALL drugs for adults and I mean full legalization without any restrains with only requirement that new products that come on market are somewhat safe (read: not para-chloroamphetamine neurotoxic and such extreme examples as for all other – big green GO sign). But it has to do with all we need to do to get this mess of a society into somewhat good shape, it has nothing to do with true, old-skull plur HR. More like opposite, population control in all shapes, colors and tastes. Going from there I strongly agree with @neversickanymore that we need some kind of control of minimum requirements for people to have a child, that’s not eugenics, that’s not sick, that’s HR and way toward better world and in case of full-on, full-scale legalization, well meth like drug with contraceptive effects would come in handy.

You guys ever been in NL beside purely tourist visit? Ever talked to average, mature genuine Hollander? You would be surprised how many are not happy with drugs in their country and how fast was coffee shop market downsized (removed from vicinity of schools, harder to open new ones, removed from vicinity of boarders, constant considerations to ban tourists from use and so on). Even more look at RCs like that, even those who don’t want to downsize that too are mostly in it for cash, not talking about few exceptions or young folks having their share with drugs and moving away from same often sooner than average young person elsewhere. Ffs they banned N₂O! Stuff that’s legal in most of the world. Is it evolving, just evolving backwards or might it be cuz they tasted the bad side of such, no-where near real legalization? Some will simply blame it on the darker shade people into crime, that’s not the sole problem, not nearly. And when it comes to legal prostitution, not nearly so much opposition is present and there’s mostly only focus to make it harder for someone forced appears on the market, so it isn’t simply a Christians political parties thing either.

Ever been to Alexandria or know how it’s there now? From hippy community with a free drug market it wasn’t long before it became a hub for mafia to sell their product. Maybe saw a documentary about what happens in Spain with “smoke clubs” being taken over by gangs. So don’t have wet dreams about many decant people entering heroin, cocaine and meth market for the sake of HR and not for the sake of profit that could be increased by 100000000 new way when such drugs became legal. Sure there are good people on hard drugs market too but they are far in-between compared to those who have no problems profiting from suffering. At certain levels such trade is almost always mixed with other crimes and that too wouldn’t magically change. Don’t be naive and think that most government sponsored dealers of hard drugs will be so some loving people doing it for your safety and to improve your and communities life, that’s another wishful thinking.

If there was real consideration of well-being of average user or average addict a totally different approach would be needed and with people in high places, don’t expect to see that anywhere in the world, any-time soon. What I consider as such approach is totally another topic and in that case mostly my wet-dream as I’m not a king of any kingdom.

All in all, bring it on and best of luck to good people in surviving the storm and protecting the young and vulnerable. O yeah, just one more thing, for some of you who keep claiming no more people would start using H and coke or restating old addiction cuz if it could be bought in the shop and than elsewhere blame big-pharma for over-prescribing opiods on benzos, you're wrong.

 

[Phobos]

There’s a lot of cons. I personally am 100% for legalization of ALL drugs for adults and I mean full legalization without any restrains with only requirement that new products that come on market are somewhat safe (read: not para-chloroamphetamine neurotoxic and such extreme examples as for all other – big green GO sign). But it has to do with all we need to do to get this mess of a society into somewhat good shape, it has nothing to do with true, old-skull plur HR. More like opposite, population control in all shapes, colors and tastes. Going from there I strongly agree with @neversickanymore that we need some kind of control of minimum requirements for people to have a child, that’s not eugenics, that’s not sick, that’s HR and way toward better world and in case of full-on, full-scale legalization, well meth like drug with contraceptive effects would come in handy.

You guys ever been in NL beside purely tourist visit? Ever talked to average, mature genuine Hollander? You would be surprised how many are not happy with drugs in their country and how fast was coffee shop market downsized (removed from vicinity of schools, harder to open new ones, removed from vicinity of boarders, constant considerations to ban tourists from use and so on). Even more look at RCs like that, even those who don’t want to downsize that too are mostly in it for cash, not talking about few exceptions or young folks having their share with drugs and moving away from same often sooner than average young person elsewhere. Ffs they banned N₂O! Stuff that’s legal in most of the world. Is it evolving, just evolving backwards or might it be cuz they tasted the bad side of such, no-where near real legalization? Some will simply blame it on the darker shade people into crime, that’s not the sole problem, not nearly. And when it comes to legal prostitution, not nearly so much opposition is present and there’s mostly only focus to make it harder for someone forced appears on the market, so it isn’t simply a Christians political parties thing either.

Ever been to Alexandria or know how it’s there now? From hippy community with a free drug market it wasn’t long before it became a hub for mafia to sell their product. Maybe saw a documentary about what happens in Spain with “smoke clubs” being taken over by gangs. So don’t have wet dreams about many decant people entering heroin, cocaine and meth market for the sake of HR and not for the sake of profit that could be increased by 100000000 new way when such drugs became legal. Sure there are good people on hard drugs market too but they are far in-between compared to those who have no problems profiting from suffering. At certain levels such trade is almost always mixed with other crimes and that too wouldn’t magically change. Don’t be naive and think that most government sponsored dealers of hard drugs will be so some loving people doing it for your safety and to improve your and communities life, that’s another wishful thinking.

If there was real consideration of well-being of average user or average addict a totally different approach would be needed and with people in high places, don’t expect to see that anywhere in the world, any-time soon. What I consider as such approach is totally another topic and in that case mostly my wet-dream as I’m not a king of any kingdom.

All in all, bring it on and best of luck to good people in surviving the storm and protecting the young and vulnerable. O yeah, just one more thing, for some of you who keep claiming no more people would start using H and coke or restating old addiction cuz if it could be bought in the shop and than elsewhere blame big-pharma for over-prescribing opiods on benzos, you a joke.

You're listing problems that already exist with drugs sold on the black market, none of that would be caused by the legalisation of drugs.

OTOH, people selling drugs legally would be motivated to keep purity constant at the risk of losing their license, they would pay taxes with money that now goes 100% to organised crime.

Look at Portugal if you want an example of how legalising possession and use actually resulted in less overdoses and more people getting clean.

 

[Merek]

Here’s some more info on this, imo I’m completely on board with this and I hope society moves towards being more empathic and less judgmental not treating people like criminals just cause they consume substances, this would save many lives if they’re consuming uncut drugs they have more time to potentially make the descision to get help and get sober, sadly tons of people consuming street drugs who fatally overdose on fentanyl never get that chance.

 

[deficiT]

wow. that's cool. gives me hope that'll be happening in america sometime.

There are already certain cities where you can essentially buy psychedelics openly, Oakland and DC being two examples.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

You're listing problems that already exist with drugs sold on the black market, none of that would be caused by the legalisation of drugs.

OTOH, people selling drugs legally would be motivated to keep purity constant at the risk of losing their license, they would pay taxes with money that now goes 100% to organised crime.

Look at Portugal if you want an example of how legalising possession and use actually resulted in less overdoses and more people getting clean.

Not caused, they would be increased and spread. Again let’s take example of Alexandria, would whole Copenhagen go that way so would mafias goodies follow gaining presence in more places over town selling their goodies. Just the fact you have to go to Alexandria to score something (yeah I know you can quite easy score drugs elsewhere) might cause someone to reconsider getting that hit unlike he/she would if you had a table with drugs behind the corner.

As for Portugal decriminalization of drugs is just a part of really drug social policy when it comes to drug problems. Not ending up in a jail for having a bit of heroin and coke and ending up hooked really bad while locked helps a lot with prevention of addiction; also ending in jail for some heroin and stopping in jail to follow that with an OD as soon as out is also avoided in such a way. Portugal is great example how to deal with a drug problem, but Portugal isn’t in any way example of LEGALIZATION of drugs.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

There are already certain cities where you can essentially buy psychedelics openly, Oakland and DC being two examples.

Presence of open market for psychedelics is more likely to prevent someone from getting hooked to heroin than to lead to it, polar opposite of being able to get heroin in a such a way.

 

[deficiT]

I like the forward progress I'm seeing in Canada. Prohibition will never be the way. There has to be more to this story, this guy was super brazen. I think we need to focus on simple decriminalization first. As that's the first step towards a legalized, regulated market which is a much more difficult thing to attain. At the very least people shouldn't be going to jail and having their lives ruined over possession charges. Portugal is a great example as others have mentioned.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Isn’t better idea to offer people ibogaine instead heroin? I guarantee it is, but there’s no money in curing addicts.

Also imho people like @ColoradoOpiateGirl staying clean cuz of her children and rising them fine is more worth than someone stupid enough to use fent getting heroin and so gaining x more years of life.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I like the forward progress I'm seeing in Canada. Prohibition will never be the way. There has to be more to this story, this guy was super brazen. I think we need to focus on simple decriminalization first. As that's the first step towards a legalized, regulated market which is a much more difficult thing to attain. At the very least people shouldn't be going to jail and having their lives ruined over possession charges. Portugal is a great example as others have mentioned.

Simply skipping huge steps needed in proper, sound HR leading to better society isn’t a good idea. And if money wasn’t a question as you say it would be gradual improvement that could and would eventually lead to the point where legal and available drugs is a good option. Skipping all that and thinking drug shops is a great idea is obviously wrong to anyone who’s deep into drugs for long enough.

 

[Phobos]

Not caused, they would be increased and spread. Again let’s take example of Alexandria, would whole Copenhagen go that way so would mafias goodies follow gaining presence in more places over town selling their goodies. Just the fact you have to go to Alexandria to score something (yeah I know you can quite easy score drugs elsewhere) might cause someone to reconsider getting that hit unlike he/she would if you had a table with drugs behind the corner.

With the things people with addiction problems do to procure drugs, I don't see ANYONE not buying drugs because they have to go to a bad spot.
We have drug problems in countries were your only option is to go to a dodgy part of town, which is most countries.
I really do not see any validity in this point you're making.

In fact, I think you could argue that when procuring drugs from a dealer people end up involved with other drug users, people they didn't interact with before.
This social circle doesn't help with addiction to say the least, and if you could just go around the corner and score, you'd be likely to not ever be involved with people further ahead in addiction than you.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Alternating between two extremes with anything isn’t a good idea.

Think lgbtq+ from ancient times till now. Was it right like when in Greece in ancient times it was ok to fuck boys? Don’t you think that is obviously wrong? Sending gay man to treatment to try to make them straight is also obviously wrong. There’s need to find a middle ground where least people are harmed.

Should people suffering from pain get proper pain-relief and enough opiods, sure. But should they just be able to get heroin as easy as beer as solution? I think not.

Should people be able to get psychedelics and emphatogens and dissos to help them with mental issues? Sure. Should same people be able to get K as easy to beer and us just hoping they’ll use it responsibly? Maybe. But would some of those found immediate relief but suffer very bad consequences including getting hooked to heroin if it was sold beside weed and shrooms, yes, how many, who knows.

Everyone speak of alcohol prohibition and how better was before and after it continue to focus only on that example like they forgot things like opium wars happened as availability of opium in China led to problems of astronomical proportions.

People speak as if introducing new drugs to everyone can’t do no harm yet we witness same happening with RC benzos. People forgot what can happen when strong drug is introduced to people no previously having contact with them as it happened to lot of native americans.

There are examples of people, claiming and I see no reason to believe they lied, to started using opiods cuz they got o-desmetyltramadolum and benzos simply cuz it was offered with psychedelics and they gave it a try, as countless before them thinking they are stronger than addictive drugs.

There are countless examples like this. If heroin wasn’t so spread in my country that it didn’t eventually creeped in to basically every after party in 90’s many people today wouldn’t be in problems and would not graduated from MDMA, LSD and stim use to life-long dependency with opiods.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

With the things people with addiction problems do to procure drugs, I don't see ANYONE not buying drugs because they have to go to a bad spot.
We have drug problems in countries were your only option is to go to a dodgy part of town, which is most countries.
I really do not see any validity in this point you're making.

In fact, I think you could argue that when procuring drugs from a dealer people end up involved with other drug users, people they didn't interact with before.
This social circle doesn't help with addiction to say the least, and if you could just go around the corner and score, you'd be likely to not ever be involved with people further ahead in addiction than you.

Idk, I am example of a such person. I don’t want to bother with people involved in opiod scene in my country but would and did used to get same when I was in a situation almost no different than having access to buy opiods like in supermarket. And I’m not the only one who’s like that. People growing their poppies are also often of similar mindset. And limited amount that can be produced by individual is a lot less harmful for same people than if they were just able to get heroin in supermarket.

I understand the wish to have clean, cheap and available drugs but extreme stance about that many have is simply selfish. And is certainly caused with bad experience with current system causes and wish of many people to burn in down and not sound logical thinking.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I wish it would be so too. But would I wish it if I wasn’t in a part auto-destructive person and if I never tasted life full of all kinds of drugs or would my wish than be only to help people with psychedelics and medicinal effects of weed and other good medicine?

But beyond my wish to have whatever drug I want in a reach of my hand is wish for a society where people don’t need heroin to feel good. Building up to such society must be done by other means before providing heroin as a last line of defense for those who really can’t find comfort in any other way.

 

[MuertaMan]

Isn’t better idea to offer people ibogaine instead heroin? I guarantee it is, but there’s no money in curing addicts.

Also imho people like @ColoradoOpiateGirl staying clean cuz of her children and rising them fine is more worth than someone stupid enough to use fent getting heroin and so gaining x more years of life.

No it isnt a better idea, some people are in actual pain and use to relieve that pain, you can take as much ibogaine as you want and it would not change the fact that you are living in a broken body. Never tried Ibogaine so maybe its assumptive to say this but I believe its more of a fad so south american countries can bilk naive tourists out of 10,000$ a pop for a "ceremony" when they would get the same benefit if they could just do it at home. I feel like mushrooms could help people just the same IMO and they don't come with all the vomiting and cramping and discomfort Ive heard ibogaine causes. Im sure its helped some people but I don't view it as some holy grail psychedelic thats gonna be any more effective than the more popular ones.

Ibogaine is not gonna cure the worlds opiate problem, you could give it to every user in the world right now and it would collect dust in their dresser drawer because most still want to use. Legal pure drugs will not only cut down on overdose rates and medical problems it will also devastate the drug cartels, drugs are their bread and butter sure there are other ways they make money but nothing compares to what they profit from drugs. The reason drugs will stay illegal for the foreseeable future is the same reason fossil fuels havent been retired and everything converted to electric, the industries wrapped around drugs like prisons full of drug offenders and fines for breaking laws and the DEA all that just vanishes, just like the whole gas industry would go under if we converted to electric, entire industries would die overnight.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

That's why I wrote this -

Should people suffering from pain get proper pain-relief and enough opiods, sure. But should they just be able to get heroin as easy as beer as solution? I think not.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Do they require a Canadian ID or can I use a passport?

Asking for my friend SWIM

 

[somnilicious]

Crazy, expensive prices but i gotta admit I'd pay $200 for a gram of real heroin in a second these days.

Yeah, I'm aware Van city is in Canada. Although I believe there is one on the US border in Washington as well.

 

[Phobos]

Idk, I am example of a such person. I don’t want to bother with people involved in opiod scene in my country but would and did used to get same when I was in a situation almost no different than having access to buy opiods like in supermarket. And I’m not the only one who’s like that. People growing their poppies are also often of similar mindset. And limited amount that can be produced by individual is a lot less harmful for same people than if they were just able to get heroin in supermarket.

I understand the wish to have clean, cheap and available drugs but extreme stance about that many have is simply selfish. And is certainly caused with bad experience with current system causes and wish of many people to burn in down and not sound logical thinking.

I mean, if you would rather not have Heroin than go to a dealer in a dodgy neighbourhood, you don't really sound like you are addicted, more like an occasional/responsible user maybe?
I'm sure you're not the only one, but I think it is very likely that there are a lot of people that you would say have a bigger opiate problem than yours.

Anyway, now I see your point, people that like you have (or used to have) a mild habit, and use sporadically or quit because they had something to lose and they don't want to risk everything to get high, might be tempted to use again or more often if the risks associated with buying from street dealers were removed.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I mean, if you would rather not have Heroin than go to a dealer in a dodgy neighbourhood, you don't really sound like you are addicted, more like an occasional/responsible user maybe?
I'm sure you're not the only one, but I think it is very likely that there are a lot of people that you would say have a bigger opiate problem than yours.

Anyway, now I see your point, people that like you have (or used to have) a mild habit, and use sporadically or quit because they had something to lose and they don't want to risk everything to get high, might be tempted to use again or more often if the risks associated with buying from street dealers were removed.

Depending who you ask some will say I’m an addict and some I’m an narcophile. I say I had periods of life where I had been using so much drugs that I was on a very extreme side and semi functional junkie might be a good term. I was able to get HQ drugs and only did anything if it was of a very high purity and uncut. I could have continued such a ride for a long time (tho longer than a decade of such lifestyle is still quite rare “success”) if I didn’t start using coke and etizolam (drugs weren’t the only reason of my downfall, possibly not even main but sure didn’t help). Now I’m away from most stuff, recovered pretty good and what and how much I use these days is between medicinal use and mild abuse depending on the day. And I don’t need to go to the doggy neighbourhood, risk my life, possessions or whatever as I live in a very safe country but getting drugs of quality that’s acceptable to me would be quite of a task and if I could buy just 1 gram of HQ heroin I wouldn’t think twice and same goes for certain persons sometimes asking me if I can get it or I asking them the same (friends who if/when can get it, don’t add nothing potentially negative and unwanted to that process, more like opposite). Another very similar example is person who got back from S. America to my country to stop doing coke, he doesn’t bother with coke around here (as getting HQ if you aren’t ready to really pull some potentially dangerous strings and get a lot is almost impossible) but if he had it easily available that would literally destroy his life. Than there are few persons (better said families) with children who absolutely don’t want to risk potential problems that come from child protection service when getting and using illegal drugs get wrong in some way. Many of those would use again too if they could get heroin or coke for themselves while getting child for an ice-cream, I know that.

I know enough people with an variations on examples I already mention to not be able to consider offering hard drugs openly is HR and to put life of some junkie with a death wish before those people who either got out of drug hell or missed it by a hair.

Also stuff like meth and heroin is being made available to people who previously never would have considered taking more than the odd bit of MD (street dealers generally dont offer those substances to festivile goers and whatnot). Giving people who occasionally indulge in bad drugs full access to much worse ones is not going to end well.

Yes, as a matter of fact there’s plenty of places and festivals where person would be thrown out, got beaten up or busted for offering heroin and meth along MDMA and LSD. Some communities take care of such soul sucking greedy pushers. And then someone will say, well this was offered just in a really bad neighborhood, yeah, like that would make it better, it would just disrupt natural flow toward people figuring out that they should not touch stuff there at all if it’s all fent infested. As for those already on that fent around the corner I don’t see how and why would they use service that appeared. It’s better to sanction with drastically longer jail time anyone selling anything with any fent in it and make dealers reconsider what will they offer to customers. Those really hooked on big doses of fent would group and mostly die out (I don’t mean just literally).