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Gun Pulled & Man Maced As Neo-Nazi Protestors Surround Family Drag Storytime Event

PriestTheyCalledHim said:
The only explanation I have is: Americans are a bit repressed due to the overwhelming Christian presence in US society. Pretty sure that has (at least) something to do with it.
That might have true well over 200+ years ago in really small isolated areas and communities of the USA such as small towns and villages in the middle of nowhere, but it is not true now and has not been for almost 100 years. In my state and region of the USA, even before the USA and 13 colonies were created and before the British arrived here-we were originally part of Sweden and then the Netherlands, and it has always been very German here, we have always had freedom of religion, or seperation of church and state.

I have gay and bisexual friends from different countries and cultures, and when I have told a gay German friend about what it has been like here since the early 1960s during the sexual revolution, he replied that in his region of Germany how everyone was expected by society and family to marry, have children, stay married, have a summer home, and be completely heterosexual. He did say that sex/sexuality are meant to be repressed or completely private, and he said how sex and someone's sexuality is way too public in the USA. A gay friend from Southern France who lived in the USA for nine years feels the same way. I told them how I can understand their different opinions and how yes sometimes it is a bit too open here, it is not one big orgy but I told him how I have seen gay men in all areas of my city who frankly and honestly tell the entire world how they are Poz or HIV+, or living with AIDS with completely visible biohazard and scorpion tattoos, facial wasting, etc.

You could be right.

The US is a weird combination of extremes, from what I understand, hence the massive political divide. On one side of the spectrum, you've got the ultra-conservative religious types and on the other side: "progressive" nutters. I didn't word what I said very well (about Americans being repressed). I often type extremely fast and I'm often multi-tasking when I'm posting. I didn't mean to suggest that every American citizen is repressed. I meant it more as a general cultural statement.

Religion is way more prominent in the US than other Western English-speaking parts of the world I've visited. In the US, in order to be elected president, you have to pretend to believe in God. There is a lot of power behind what I perceive as a puritanical ideology.

I didn't mean any offense and (admittedly) I don't know that much about America.

@mal3volent

I don't think Americans are useless. On the contrary, I have a lot of respect for your country.

America is not generally very popular in Australia, which is weird because we consume so much film/TV/music that you produce. I used to be a staunch defender of US culture. I always said I wanted to move there. My opinions have changed somewhat over the past 5/10 years. I'm happy where I am. I prefer Australia overall... but I'd be proud to call myself an American if the shit hit the fan.

Apologies if I offended you.

I mean no harm.
 
If you're 24 years old and you fuck a 14 year old, you are a big steaming pile of shit.

100%.

When I was in middle school (8th grade), one of my classmates had an adult boyfriend. She was very well developed, shall we say, for a 13 year old, she hit puberty very young. All the guys in our grade would always talk about how hot she was, and she was. Anyway, one day at lunch, I was sitting at her table with some other people and friends, and she started bragging to us about how her boyfriend was in college, and how much sex they were having. He was 19. Literally everyone at the table was like uh... dude, what the fuck? That's sketchy, you know that's illegal, right? She was like who cares? I like him, and he says I'm much more mature for my age than other 13 year olds.

It was gross. She said she was going to go spend a weekend with him at his college. I wasn't friends with her so I never heard anything else about it, but I wonder if the dude got busted when she went to visit, or if people didn't know because she looked like she could be 18 (or at least, at the time, I thought so, but then again, when I was 13, I hadn't hit my growth spurt yet and looked fully like a kid still).
 
But it's clearly a fad now, and my worry is that taking hormones and getting surgery are steps that have lifelong consequences. I worry that young people, who are not developed enough in their identities, will jump on that train, and later on it will lead to a great deal of suffering, because you can't go back from that. Of course, for some, who aren't doing it because it's a fad, but because they feel they can finally come out, it will be great, and I am very happy for them that they're able to do that, and that is an example of good coming from this.

I hear this point get made a lot by people who are opposed to trans stuff, that it's a "fad" that's ensnaring kids. But if that were actually the case I'd expect a higher rate of "detransitioning" trans people...from the data I've seen, the percentage of trans people who go back is in the single digits, which seemingly indicates that it's more than a passing fad for most people. But maybe there's some data I haven't seen, I haven't looked very hard into it
 
Burnt Offerings said:
from the data I've seen, the percentage of trans people who go back is in the single digits

Look beyond the numbers.

It's pretty fucking hard to go back. Often, it's downright impossible.

Also - I think - time will tell with de-transitioning. We don't have long-term data for the latest generation, which is when it has exploded.

I deconstructed the universe with psychedelics. I took everything apart. It's hard to put everything back together. I can't imagine how hard it is to try and reverse transition your gender.

These are people who re-enforced in their minds over and over that they aren't their assigned gender. If they then find that they aren't the opposite gender either, I don't imagine it's as easy as flicking a switch.

How do you return to something that you were convinced you were not? And - depending on what sort of medical intervention has occurred - you probably can't go back.

So, would you feel comfortable as your original gender again?

It's got to be incredibly confusing.

Gender is meaningless. Non-binary people probably make more sense to me than cis or trans men or women. I probably am non-binary. (That is the most cringe inducing sentence I have ever forced myself to write.) I'm increasingly growing tired of labels. I feel like focusing on labels takes me further away from who I want to be. Language is so imperfect. It's like trying to define God with words. I told my wife the other day that I no longer identify as bisexual because I don't want to identify as anything. It's restrictive. It's claustrophobic.

I don't want to be expected to behave in a certain way, because I'm male.

So what if I wear a dress?

The trans movement is a necessary (but sloppy) step towards an enlightened perspective of gender, IMO.

Surgery is unnecessary, but society likes people to fit neatly into categories. People mutilate themselves because we judge those who are different. They want to fit neatly into a category. They want to "pass" because it's easier. So, they go from one label to another. I get that. It makes sense.

My wife doesn't wear make up or shave her legs. I have broken down all of that shit in my head over the years to such an extent that I am no longer aroused by fake looking women.

My kids will always know that they never need to conform to any gender stereotype whatsoever, but I will REALLY struggle to accept puberty blockers or hormones or - God forbid - surgery.

I'm conflicted about the whole thing. Nothing is imperfect in the universe. Imperfection is subjective. This part of the trans movement is part of "God's plan" - for lack of a better term - as much as anything is. (I don't believe in a traditional God, but this post is way too long and rambling already to go into that.)

Having said that, it's unfortunate that I have to raise my kids at the exact moment society decides to do a public living dissection of gender.

If you're a parent, the worst thing to do for to your kid (if they become trans) is reject it. That's not going to work. You have to find peace with it. I still have some work to do in this department.
 
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That's definitely true, regarding the limited scope of time we're working with here

There's just something about the idea of trans stuff being a fad that I have trouble with...like, it's not just about wearing specific clothes or taking recreational drugs or eating tide pods or whatever to be cool, it's a process taking place over years and involving some pretty significant ongoing medical intervention re: hormones/puberty blockers...just seems like a lot of effort to put into being part of a passing fad or trend, I dunno
 
Fad isn't a perfect word.

A lot of trans people fancy themselves gender experts, but this is a new field of study. How can we know everything?

The current stage of social gender deconstruction is crude and leaves much to be desired. I don't believe we know everything about what trans means. We've really just started talking about it (relative to everything else the human race has tried to take apart and put back together again)... so, I don't think is the final destination.

We shouldn't talk about transgenderism as fact.

It is changing as we speak.

The reason there are so many genders and identities now is because the science is wrong. There is a spanner in the works.

That's what happens in mathematics when there's a mistake in the foundation and the universe is maths.

The world is passing through a confusing stage of our evolution.

The truth is always cleaner than this.

...

I'm going to stop editing this post now. I don't know how many times I've edited it. My weed to dexamphetamine balance is off. I'm in a weird zone. I need to snap myself out of it, so I'm going to log off for a while.

Just wanted to say I've been reading this thread throughout the week and it has been really helpful to step back and just listen. I understand more when I speak less.
 
It's like flashing, they get off on doing it in front of children. Mother of a 4 year old here that has 2 lesbian Grandmas. No real parent supports this bullshit, it's sick. Gays Against Groomers is the real deal.


 
How is a flag sexually suggestive?

I gather from some of the comments on this thread that certain members would rather live in a world without gay and lesbian people.

I know a guy who runs the music department at a prominent Catholic school. He wears a couple of rainbow badges on his lapel. He's proud of who he is. Why shouldn't he be?

Nobody has a problem with teachers talking about husbands / wives if they're straight, so why should teachers have to hide the fact that they're gay?
Where I am from, most teachers Kindergarten through grade 12, and instructors and academics at colleges and universities keep their personal life outside of their work life completely private from students. Even heterosexual teachers and professors do this.

The teachers or college/university instructors who do not do this, do not keep their jobs long, are disliked both by their peers or fellow teachers as well as by their students, and radical political indoctrination does not belong in a school, it reminds one of the USSR, Cuba, China, and North Korea.
 
Good post. The radical left, and the media that pushes, or perhaps even creates, that narrative, have gone way too far in their approach. I'm glad that we are talking about transgenderism, because it is a thing and has been a thing since time immemorial, long before this current movement. Just like the push for equal rights and social acceptance of homosexuality, this needed to happen. But what is also needed is open and respectful discourse, and an acceptance that it is going to be difficult for many people who the whole concept had just never been part of their world. The correct way to handle it would have been to counter criticism with calm and respectful counterarguments (I mean of course if neo-Nazis are pulling guns, that's a different story, but this discussion really isn't about what the OP references, it's about the broader cultural discussion). Instead, the media, and also certain individuals among the trans rights activists, have decided to take the approach of "we're here, fuck you, if you don't accept everything we say, you're a piece of shit bigot". That kind of approach will never in a million years win anyone over to your side. It just creates resentment, and pushes many people who were never hateful, just confused and uncomfortable but could have been willing to engage in discourse, over to the side of "OMG trans people are trying to make it so it's legal to have sex with children", simply because those people have had hate and insults hurled at them.

Of course the radical right does similar stuff, look at the shit Fox News spews out about liberals. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Furthermore, this constant pushing of transgender ideology in the way it's being done (and this is just my opinion, and I do not mean to offend anyone) is having an effect on young people. I am not going to speculate on whether it's intentional or not, but from what I can see, it has become "cool" to be gender non-conforming. Teenagers and young adults have always, for all time, and will always be confused and seeking to develop their identity. I remember, it was a confusing and difficult time. All teenagers get depressed, hormones are a hell of a drug. But what I am seeing is that there are a lot of young people who are coming out as transgender, or pangender (both genders), or whatever, and it seems to me that it is the modern version of how all of us experimented with our identities when we were young, to try to fit in, to try something new, or as a way to try to figure out why we feel uncomfortable in our own self-image. I certainly did it. I became a "goth kid" for a while in high school. Then I became a "psychedelic guy", psychedelics were my identity. It wasn't until my early 30s that I started to feel comfortable in my own skin and to know who I was, and to no longer let pressures from outside forces question my sense of self.

To be clear, I have no problem with young people trying out the persona of being trans. But my worry is that the idea of hormones and transition surgery is being pushed everywhere. And there seem to be a LOT of young people suddenly becoming trans. It has never been common for people to truly feel they're the wrong gender, there always have been, and I am fully aware that many of them, in the past, were just never willing to make that transition, either due to self-hatred or fear of others. But it's clearly a fad now, and my worry is that taking hormones and getting surgery are steps that have lifelong consequences. I worry that young people, who are not developed enough in their identities, will jump on that train, and later on it will lead to a great deal of suffering, because you can't go back from that. Of course, for some, who aren't doing it because it's a fad, but because they feel they can finally come out, it will be great, and I am very happy for them that they're able to do that, and that is an example of good coming from this.

Overall I see both sides and am conflicted, but I think the way in which his has been rolled out is troubling.



That picture is absolutely sick, and I would be very surprised if anyone posting in here does not agree with that. Of course, some people in the world would call you a bigot for saying that, which is part of the point I was making above.

There's a relatively simple way to disentangle all of the conflicting factors you mention here, and that's to bring back proper medical, scientific evaluation of who is trans and who isn't. And in the absence of scientific conclusions, we should not be pushing through radical changes in healthcare and social policy. Right now, anybody can be whatever they say they are, and the forced-through human rights laws saw we have to obey that. I think that's wrong and shows a lack of discourse. There's an entire previous generation of trans people who had to receive a gender dysphoria diagnosis and be classified as "transsexuals" (a problematic term now, I'm aware) before they could engage in transition. A good friend of mine in Toronto who is old school trans had to get approval from a psychiatrist and another medical specialist to even get hormone therapy. Maybe that's a bit gatekeepy, I'm not totally sure, and I'm willing to compromise on that. But the point is, it's not all "gatekeeping", a lot of it is healthy boundaries.

We have many groups converging on one movement and they're not all the same. We have people with gender dysphoria demanding fair treatment. We have autogynephiles, who are basically men with a fetish, forcing their way into a movement as a means to hypersexualize women and invade their spaces while pretending to be "trans". Meanwhile they are basically just creepy men. We have people of all ages, but especially children, who are bandwagoning onto a social contagion because they have other personal issues that have nothing to do with being trans (i.e. seeking peer acceptance), yet they are possibly getting radical body modification that is permanently damaging.

I'm not seeing nearly enough discourse about:

1) If you don't have gender dysphoria, you're not trans in the medical sense.
2) Without a medical diagnosis, there's nothing to ground your claim in reality.
3) Not everyone with gender dysphoria can or should get gender reassigning therapy. A lot don't.
4) Gender reassignment does not cure gender dysphoria in most cases, it only sort of alleviates it. The problem is in the mind, not in the body.
5) Not everyone who gets gender reassignment gets the whole kitchen sink. Some are OK with just cross-dressing for a VERY long time and may not ever need to go further than that.
6) Gradual measures are safer and more measurable than radical, all-in measures (i.e. cross dressing, then maybe trying hormones, then maybe surgery down the road, etc... but not everything at once)
7) Children who claim to be trans should require a much higher level of scrutiny and protection before they are allowed to undertake body modification, even if we also want to support them. We should have to PROVE that children are trans if medical intervention is being sought, and the proofs should be rigorous.
8) Not everyone who claims they're trans is trans. How can somebody without gender dysphoria suddenly claim, at 30 years old, that they are trans because the TRA movement inspired them, yet up until that point it wasn't a pressing issue in their life? These people are a different category, yet undefined by any legit medical/scientific authority.
9) Not everyone who is gender nonconforming is trans. Children who cross dress should not be subjected to gender ideology. i.e. as a gay boy I liked putting on my girl friend's dresses and having tea parties, but I had no desire to become a girl.
10) Children engage in a lot of fantasy play and experimental identities. It doesn't mean they're having an identity crisis or need medical intervention.
11) Munchausen syndrome by proxy (MSBP) is rife among these virtue signaling, woke leftist parents.
12) There are definitely child predators piggy backing on the trans movement, whether the benign actors care to admit it or not.
13) There are people with other kinds of mental health issues in the movement who are clearly delusional and are not trans, yet are receiving support/attention from the movement on the basis that they are trans. People with personality disorders (BPD, narcissism, histronic personality disorder) and others.
14) The medical industry has a huge financial stake in transitioning people. All you need to do is look at the economic reports to see how profitable it is. That is also a major conflict of interest.
15) The movement toward "children can consent" because they're "born trans" is an extremely slippery slope and some observers are right to be concerned that this is a gateway to child grooming. I'm not saying "trans people" are doing the grooming, I'm saying that there are actors in the TRA movement doing the grooming.

I am not seeing enough being done to disentangle all of these factors and create proper definitions and categories which create healthy boundaries within the TRA movement. As far as I can tell, genuine trans people with gender dysphoria are rapidly becoming a minority within this movement, overshadowed by other actors with wildly different agendas, yet the assumption is that they are "all one". We are just supposed to believe that people are who they say they are, without critical thinking, without science or medicine, and without common sense. I work in medical and we're not even allowed to question or gently push back against children claiming they're trans anymore. We're not allowed to schedule investigations. It's "transphobic" and "discrimination" to even say hey, maybe this kid needs a psychiatric referral. "How dare you pathologize my child!" In the movement, we're supposed to lump them all together as "trans" when clearly the people we're seeing in the movement are not homogeneous. It's an extremely heterogeneous movement.

And this has given these people incredible sociopolitical power... over real experts, over government, over educational institutions. It's scary. Think about what gays went through. The APA said that homosexuality was a mental illness until 1974. Until then, gays were still getting lobotomies or thrown in jail simply for identifying as gay. But then the science changed, along with the civil rights movement. The TRA movement is not going through a comparable movement. It's all being crammed through and they are coming after children, while there is a complete lack of longitudinal data on the effects of that.

Trans people deserve respect and human rights. Real trans people. Not nonbinary or whatever bullshit. Progressivism has lost the plot in this regard. I live on the west coast and contemporary leftists are some of the most intellectually lazy, entitled people I have ever met in my life. No amount of logic and rationality can penetrate those pea brains. And they're the ones making health policy now about children. Mark my words, in less than a generation there is going to be huge fallout from this, when the science catches up.
 
Fuckin a.
lol I grew up around drag queens, and regular queens. They never read stories to me. The one gay man who is masculine liked seeing the Lego themed sets I would build, and the other guy who is a queen/part time drag queen loved playing Tetris. I liked sweeping up the hair the other drag queen would cut, but none of these men appeared in drag, character, and sex was never discussed.
are you talking about some federal age of consent? in the u.s. there is no federal age of consent - it's set at the state level.

there are age-related federal laws e.g. 18 U.S. Code § 2423 - Transportation of minors which makes it illegal to transport a minor across state lines with the intent of engaging in criminal sexual acts.

perhaps that is what you're thinking of? that is one of the federal crimes of which matt gaetz, for example, is suspected.

but state consent laws absolutely matter. all states have an unrestricted age of consent and many also have one or more restricted age(s) of consent. so, for example, in ohio the restricted by authority age of consent is 16 so your 24 year old could have sex with a 16 year old - quite legally - as long as the older partner is not in a position of trust or authority.

i'm not saying i think it's right. or appropriate. or whatever.

i am saying it's not illegal.

alasdair
My friend's EX-BOYFRIEND, we learned that after he and my friend broke up-I was never friends with and never saw my friend's ex socially when they were together that much-was arrested at 23 or 24 for having sex with a 16 or 17 year old boy. During the court proceedings he and his lawyer mentioned our state's age of consent laws, and the judge said "Those do not matter. What you did as an adult is illegal and wrong, and you know it." My friend's ex boyfriend was put in prison and is now on a public paedophile/sex offender registry. I also learned that my friend's ex when they split up and stopped living together stole my friend's TV and they had an abusive relationship.
 
i'm not sure what to think about a judge stating that laws don't matter.

which state was this and of which crime, specifically, was he found guilty?

some states, even today i believe, have different consent laws for straight people than for gay people.

you did not specify the sex of the two people in your op so maybe that's the disconnect...

alasdair
 
So what I'm getting from some of the recent posts is that, basically, there are "real" trans people and "fake" trans people, i.e. the people hopping on the trans wagon as it passes by? Men who are using it to enact their own weird sex fetishes or some other reason?

I've always been skeptical of that just because, out of all the things you could be in this society, trans ain't exactly the easiest road. I don't know, maybe it's just the places I've lived, but if they can tell immediately that you're trans you automatically become a target for some people. Trans people have a pretty high suicide rate. That's why I'm inclined to believe people when they relay that this is an important aspect of their identity, even though I don't get it at all
 
He'd fit in well at a dinner party at Margaret sangers house

John William Money (8 July 1921 – 7 July 2006) was a New Zealand psychologist, sexologist and author known for his research into sexual identity and biology of gender. He was one of the first researchers to publish theories on the influence of societal constructs of gender on individual formation of gender identity. Money introduced the terms gender role and sexual orientation and popularised the terms gender identity and paraphilia.[1][2]
 
If you're 24 years old and you fuck a 14 year old, you are a big steaming pile of shit.
Agreed.
Sorry, I was really tired and I don’t think I really processed and/or read that part of the article (past few days have been punk concert, then several hours of hiking, then huge 10 hour metal festival)
Deleted my post because it was incorrect.
Fuck Dan Savage.
 
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i'm not sure what to think about a judge stating that laws don't matter.

which state was this and of which crime, specifically, was he found guilty?

some states, even today i believe, have different consent laws for straight people than for gay people.

you did not specify the sex of the two people in your op so maybe that's the disconnect...

alasdair
He was going by the federal law, not the state's supposed "age of consent law". I was not there and my friend was not either, he did read about what happened to his ex in newspaper articles when the sentencing was written about.

Even if it had hypothetically involved a,man in his 20s and a teen girl who is not an adult, or an adult woman in her 20s and an underage teen boy or girl the arrest, sentencing, and having the adult go onto a public sex offenders/paedophile list and they go through lots of psychiatric and therapy sessions they have to pay for themselves, would have still happened regardless of our state's "age of consent laws".
 
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You could be right.

The US is a weird combination of extremes, from what I understand, hence the massive political divide. On one side of the spectrum, you've got the ultra-conservative religious types and on the other side: "progressive" nutters. I didn't word what I said very well (about Americans being repressed). I often type extremely fast and I'm often multi-tasking when I'm posting. I didn't mean to suggest that every American citizen is repressed. I meant it more as a general cultural statement.

Religion is way more prominent in the US than other Western English-speaking parts of the world I've visited. In the US, in order to be elected president, you have to pretend to believe in God. There is a lot of power behind what I perceive as a puritanical ideology.

I didn't mean any offense and (admittedly) I don't know that much about America.

@mal3volent

I don't think Americans are useless. On the contrary, I have a lot of respect for your country.

America is not generally very popular in Australia, which is weird because we consume so much film/TV/music that you produce. I used to be a staunch defender of US culture. I always said I wanted to move there. My opinions have changed somewhat over the past 5/10 years. I'm happy where I am. I prefer Australia overall... but I'd be proud to call myself an American if the shit hit the fan.

Apologies if I offended you.

I mean no harm.
It is not meant to be taken literally. The oath or swearing in, has more to do with legal aspects, official proceedings, and not committing perjury than an actual church or religion, or the Puritan sect of old Christianity in England and New England which died out Centuries ago by 1720, and was only regional the the New England colonies. What gets glossed over or ignored is that there were people of other sects of Christianity and other religions in New England, and in other colonies or territories which became the United States.

The two political party system in the USA, and keeping them both in power is more important and powerful in Presidential and political elections, and in the USA than religion is. The USA has seperation of church (substitute 'church' for any religion, or lack of it such as forced radical state atheism like in Socialist/Marxist/communist countries), and federal and state/local government.
 
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The USA has seperation of church (substitute 'church' for any religion, or lack of it such as forced radical state atheism like in Socialist/Marxist/communist countries), and federal and state/local government
The USA is SUPPOSED to have separation of church and state.
But between abortion laws, religious symbols and references to ‘God’ on government buildings, you obviously don’t have that.
 
The USA is SUPPOSED to have separation of church and state.
But between abortion laws, religious symbols and references to ‘God’ on government buildings, you obviously don’t have that.
You are clearly not from the United States and do not understand what seperation of church and state is.

The United States of America has always had seperation of church and state, unlike other countries. Nobody is forced to be a single religion here, or forced to be atheist like in the USSR. Were you even alive when the USSR was still in existence, or do you know how bad life was in the Soviet countries?

The USA is not like in certain Islamic countries where they have Apostay or blasphemy laws, people who try to convert to other religions or no religion besides Islam are imprisoned or executed, Sharia law is legal and enforced, and the government and legal system are both based on Islam.

In England, there is a constitutionally established state religion but other faiths are tolerated. The British monarch is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and 26 bishops (Lords Spiritual) sit in the upper house of government, the House of Lords.

We do not have this in the USA as we have always had seperation of church or religion, and state or government.

The reason we have secularism enshrined in the Constitution, in our government, and in our legal culture is because we didn't want to repeat the hundreds of years of religious fighting Europe went through.

Abortion laws? I know people who are against abortion completely and they are agnostics and atheists. There are also a lot of moderate pro-life people who are against abortion when it is done because of the woman and man not using any or multiple types of birth control, against late term/partial birth abortions, and are for abortions in rare cases of incest, rape, or if a c-section cannot be performed.
 
You are clearly not from the United States and do not understand what seperation of church and state is.

The United States of America has always had seperation of church and state, unlike other countries. Nobody is forced to be a single religion here, or forced to be atheist like in the USSR. Were you even alive when the USSR was still in existence, or do you know how bad life was in the Soviet countries?

The USA is not like in certain Islamic countries where they have Apostay or blasphemy laws, people who try to convert to other religions or no religion besides Islam are imprisoned or executed, Sharia law is legal and enforced, and the government and legal system are both based on Islam.

In England, there is a constitutionally established state religion but other faiths are tolerated. The British monarch is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and 26 bishops (Lords Spiritual) sit in the upper house of government, the House of Lords.

We do not have this in the USA as we have always had seperation of church or religion, and state or government.

The reason we have secularism enshrined in the Constitution, in our government, and in our legal culture is because we didn't want to repeat the hundreds of years of religious fighting Europe went through.

Abortion laws? I know people who are against abortion completely and they are agnostics and atheists. There are also a lot of moderate pro-life people who are against abortion when it is done because of the woman and man not using any or multiple types of birth control, against late term/partial birth abortions, and are for abortions in rare cases of incest, rape, or if a c-section cannot be performed.

We also have a sitting SCOTUS justice who has said, publicly and on the record, that she considers the whole point of her legal career to be the destruction of separation of church and state, elimination of the republic, and recreating the nation as a theocratic monarchy... a "kingdom of god" as she put it. Well, the world already has a kingdom of god. It's called Saudi Arabia. And, sorry not sorry, I for one don't fancy the idea of living there.

And as for the abortion ruling, did you miss the part right after where that same Supreme Court failed to coordinate their messaging and let it slip that Obergefell and Lawrence are next on their chopping block? Or perhaps their rulings over the last few years where they okayed denying gays access to commerce in Colorado and adoption services in Pennsylvania?

Oh, of course we don't presently have it as bad as those unfortunate enough to live in countries inflicted by Sharia law. But we have a very, VERY long way to go to truly purge religious influence in government. And one major political party is determined not just to hold up that progress, but to actively drag us backwards. And they've had some major successes these last several years.
 
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