Droppersneck
Bluelighter
We have a constitution for a reason iirc. I am very proficient with a compound bow and it is the only way I will ever hunt again.
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Gun control and mentally ill
- Thread starter treezy z
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We have a constitution for a reason iirc. I am very proficient with a compound bow and it is the only way I will ever hunt again.
socko
Bluelighter
What's with the anti-gun bigotry? I depend on having access to a hunting rifle for a portion of my food. I live partly off the grid and live off the land as much as possible so hunting, fishing, raising food animals, trapping, gardening are part of life.
A rifle is very easy and efficient for hunting. For those who would suggest I use only a bow, bows are very difficult to master, but I'm working on it. I'm learning to use a compound bow but progress is slow because of an injury. I have to use a left-handed bow because my arm had been broken when I was a baby and I never received medical attention and treatment. As a result, I've never had full use of it. So after practicing daily for several months, I'm still more likely to miss or maim the animal and have it suffer with a bow. With a rifle on the other hand, my skill is much better and this is unlikely.
A rifle is very easy and efficient for hunting. For those who would suggest I use only a bow, bows are very difficult to master, but I'm working on it. I'm learning to use a compound bow but progress is slow because of an injury. I have to use a left-handed bow because my arm had been broken when I was a baby and I never received medical attention and treatment. As a result, I've never had full use of it. So after practicing daily for several months, I'm still more likely to miss or maim the animal and have it suffer with a bow. With a rifle on the other hand, my skill is much better and this is unlikely.
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One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
I have no problems with hunting. I grew up shooting ducks for food and possums for fur. Needing a semi automatic assault rifle to hunt deer for instance is taking it too far. A skilled single shot kill from 80m is impressive. Blindly spraying 30 rounds a minute less so. I don't find any sport in hunting with powered weapons any more. At least by hunting a wild boar with a bow and knife you are giving the animal a some what level playing field.
The macho postering of some gun owners is what I fail to understand. Why are you considered tougher if you are packing a large caliber weapon as opposed to a pocket sized pea shooter? It's like having to have some one spot you while you do chin ups.
The macho postering of some gun owners is what I fail to understand. Why are you considered tougher if you are packing a large caliber weapon as opposed to a pocket sized pea shooter? It's like having to have some one spot you while you do chin ups.
socko
Bluelighter
I agree. You usually only get one shot in hunting. If you don't hit the animal with the first shot, the animal will run away so fast, you'll never hit it no matter how many additional times you shoot.
I'm not fond of large caliber guns -- the noise really bothers me - I mean it physically hurts and is extremely unpleasant. Even with ear plugs. And the ammo is very expensive, but I would imagine the appeal is a macho thing as you say.
There aren't wild boar up here, but if I lived in the south, I'd be interested in hunting them with a bow -- or even a spear if I could get close enough.
I'm not fond of large caliber guns -- the noise really bothers me - I mean it physically hurts and is extremely unpleasant. Even with ear plugs. And the ammo is very expensive, but I would imagine the appeal is a macho thing as you say.
There aren't wild boar up here, but if I lived in the south, I'd be interested in hunting them with a bow -- or even a spear if I could get close enough.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I've got no problem with hunting in itself if it's for food, though as you say OTW, it seems a bit unsporting a hunting method; i personally don't like hunting animals for sport though (so i guess i'm bigoted against that) - but you don't need pistols or machine guns for that anyway. And i'd guess the vast majority of american gun owners wouldn't use them for hunting, though i'm sure the gun lobby use the idea for cover. Retaining universal gun freedom for the benefit of a tiny number of people who hunt for their food and live off-grid (admirable though this is) doesn't seem like a good justification to me. There could be strong licensing laws but still with flexibility for farmers and rural users (there's something like that in the uk for farmers so they can shoot foxes etc)
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Amen. I am a diagnosed/medicinally stable adult woman who suffers from Bipolar and depression. I do carry, and always will. I live in the ghetto, so not being protected is not an option. Anyone saying differently must live in the burbs
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I hear you about discrimination, but should we just give up on society being peaceful and accept everyone having guns? Saying we all need guns because other people have guns just seems defeatist to me. Doesn't just stopping so many people having guns sort this problem better? (how you get there from here is another question though, but a principle's a principle).
Or better still, get rid of the need for ghettos which are just a reflection of the country's wealth not being shared out properly imv (plus some racism i guess) - people in ghettos aren't more likely to kill people or rob because of their race, or because the poor are inhernetly criminal, but because they have no stake in wider society (there's obvious correlation between economic position and crime, as well as educational prospects). They're criminal because they're poor, not poor because they're criminal (obviously most poor people still aren't criminal, but the point remains (it's a higher proportion among the poor)).
As for people saying criminals don't need to get licenses because their guns are illegal, the illegal gun market doesn't happen in a vacuum - the massive amounts of available legal guns means many more available to be stolen; and also the gun industry spreads its tentacles world wide, so it's probably the same gun corporations overall responsible for the illegal guns brought in from abroad as well (america are by far the world's biggest gun sellers)
If democracy was actually effective, it sems most americans actually support more gun control anyway (www.salon.com/2013/01/31/no_really_americans_support_gun_control/). That goes for many policies that are labelled as 'socialist' - the majority of american opinion has been way more 'progressive' than govenrments of both colours for years (Chomsky always quotes the polling data if you want details)
Or better still, get rid of the need for ghettos which are just a reflection of the country's wealth not being shared out properly imv (plus some racism i guess) - people in ghettos aren't more likely to kill people or rob because of their race, or because the poor are inhernetly criminal, but because they have no stake in wider society (there's obvious correlation between economic position and crime, as well as educational prospects). They're criminal because they're poor, not poor because they're criminal (obviously most poor people still aren't criminal, but the point remains (it's a higher proportion among the poor)).
As for people saying criminals don't need to get licenses because their guns are illegal, the illegal gun market doesn't happen in a vacuum - the massive amounts of available legal guns means many more available to be stolen; and also the gun industry spreads its tentacles world wide, so it's probably the same gun corporations overall responsible for the illegal guns brought in from abroad as well (america are by far the world's biggest gun sellers)
If democracy was actually effective, it sems most americans actually support more gun control anyway (www.salon.com/2013/01/31/no_really_americans_support_gun_control/). That goes for many policies that are labelled as 'socialist' - the majority of american opinion has been way more 'progressive' than govenrments of both colours for years (Chomsky always quotes the polling data if you want details)
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Droppersneck
Bluelighter
Do farmers really do this? Cats kill pests iirc. I know many farmers that have many barn cats. Anyone who shoots any animal and leaves it to die isnt right imo
socko
Bluelighter
Dropper: Not farmers in general, but there are a lot of rustic people (rednecks/white trash) who kill cats whenever they can. Here in Buttfsck, Egypt, I encounter them sometimes. They are the stereotypical semi-illiterate hicks one sees or reads about inthe media. If not with a gun, they run them over with their pickup trucks. When asked why they are cruel to cats (and I have asked), they give various reasons. Two common ones are bizarre superstitious answers -- cats are evil or of the devil. Cats kill sleeping babies by taking their breath or soul. Other times, it's out of pure meanness.
T-girl72: anyone living in a high crime neighborhood has the right to defend him/herself. Someone walking alone will be a target for some kind of crime. It's not a question of "if" but "how often"... I've lived in neighborhoods like that. I used to carry a knife or pepper spray, but depending on your situation, a gun (assuming you know how to use it) might be the best choice.
Vurtual: I agree -- address the root of the problem - extreme poverty and lack of upward mobility. Make sure everyone has a level playing field as far as having a chance of living a prosperous life. Fix the social safety net...
T-girl72: anyone living in a high crime neighborhood has the right to defend him/herself. Someone walking alone will be a target for some kind of crime. It's not a question of "if" but "how often"... I've lived in neighborhoods like that. I used to carry a knife or pepper spray, but depending on your situation, a gun (assuming you know how to use it) might be the best choice.
Vurtual: I agree -- address the root of the problem - extreme poverty and lack of upward mobility. Make sure everyone has a level playing field as far as having a chance of living a prosperous life. Fix the social safety net...
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Foreigner
Bluelighter
Every country has mentally ill people, psychos, misogynists, and wannabe serial killers. But they don't get to carry out their violent plans because they don't have access to the most deadly weapons. I really, really get why the Second Amendment is so important in the U.S., I really do, and I support that reason for having guns; but I'm sorry America, it's time that you admit you have a gun and violence problem. It's true that there are always extenuating circumstances, and that guns don't kill people, people do. But guns make murder attempts exponentially more likely to succeed.
American culture is saturated in guns being the solution to whatever ails a person. In the movies, whenever shit gets real, the main character always just happens to have a gun. These shooting sprees at schools... I blame the media. They always sensationalize the killer. The victims get 5 minutes of air time before they dive into the deep psychology of some twisted asshole who was upset because he couldn't get laid.
Stop televising this shit with 24/7 coverage, and start making people lock up their guns in more secure arrangements.
American culture is saturated in guns being the solution to whatever ails a person. In the movies, whenever shit gets real, the main character always just happens to have a gun. These shooting sprees at schools... I blame the media. They always sensationalize the killer. The victims get 5 minutes of air time before they dive into the deep psychology of some twisted asshole who was upset because he couldn't get laid.
Stop televising this shit with 24/7 coverage, and start making people lock up their guns in more secure arrangements.
GodandLove
Bluelighter
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- Jul 7, 2013
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I don't even care about guns....and why the hell is this thread even in the philosophy and spirituality subforum?
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Vurtual
Bluelighter
Cant tell if serious... 
But just in case:
Actually, i think you'll find that's mostly down to america (biggest drug consumers, international drug laws, war on drugs, war on terror). Most of the wars that america isn't in are run by and for america's interest (though usually through some proxies). America has prevented democracy time after time in preference for dictators; trained death squads, stirred up wars for its own end (iran/iraq), blown up airliners etc.
Anyway - not anti-american, just anti-american empire. (and guns are bad mmkay
But just in case: Actually, i think you'll find that's mostly down to america (biggest drug consumers, international drug laws, war on drugs, war on terror). Most of the wars that america isn't in are run by and for america's interest (though usually through some proxies). America has prevented democracy time after time in preference for dictators; trained death squads, stirred up wars for its own end (iran/iraq), blown up airliners etc.
Anyway - not anti-american, just anti-american empire. (and guns are bad mmkay
I agree, many people would kill innocent victims if they had access to guns. However, if someone is determined, they will get a gun. The santa monica shooter for example, wanted a gun since he was a teen. The law prevented him from killing people, until he somehow got a non-working gun and fixed it himself.We can't really prevent such events, unless the govt puts more effort into stopping the illegal gun market.
Once metal 3D printers are available and cheap enough, people will start making their own guns, and that's a serious problem.
I actually read through the manifesto of this person, and have to say I've never seen anyone so weak and frail as he appeared to be. He would cry and cry over anything, for hours and hours, like the first day of a new school. I don't remember ever reacting to anything like that.
No wonder he had problems with girls. As females generally want someone emotionally stronger than them and not even weaker. Anyway, reading this really makes me wonder about the nature of the male sex. Females deserve to die because they don't want him and prefer more masculine guys. What about guys who only look for looks, just use women as a piece of meat, or rape and kill women? I guess that's insignificant in comparison.
Funny how different men can be and their relationship with women can be. I dated a Muslim guy for a while, who was overwhelmed with female attention, although he didn't ask for it. But he was socially gifted, fair-skinned, with more European features, and looked like he could be Spanish or some type of Southern European. Very handsome, and he drove a Taxi, so women would throw themselves at him all the time. At least once a week I would hear of some drunk girl, some prostitute, or old woman who had propositioned him.
And being very religious and a bit of a prude, especially about females, he would just scold them out. While many men would have loved and taken advantage of that situation. He used to say "Other guys want a different girl every night but I just want one". Quite sweet really.
Of course I ruined his life.
No wonder he had problems with girls. As females generally want someone emotionally stronger than them and not even weaker. Anyway, reading this really makes me wonder about the nature of the male sex. Females deserve to die because they don't want him and prefer more masculine guys. What about guys who only look for looks, just use women as a piece of meat, or rape and kill women? I guess that's insignificant in comparison.
Funny how different men can be and their relationship with women can be. I dated a Muslim guy for a while, who was overwhelmed with female attention, although he didn't ask for it. But he was socially gifted, fair-skinned, with more European features, and looked like he could be Spanish or some type of Southern European. Very handsome, and he drove a Taxi, so women would throw themselves at him all the time. At least once a week I would hear of some drunk girl, some prostitute, or old woman who had propositioned him.
And being very religious and a bit of a prude, especially about females, he would just scold them out. While many men would have loved and taken advantage of that situation. He used to say "Other guys want a different girl every night but I just want one". Quite sweet really.
Of course I ruined his life.
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I totally agree with this, and have (over) emphasised a key word people tend to conveniently overlook when this debate arises.
Not just a gun problem; but a violence problem more generally that is inflated to horrendous proportions by the gun culture.
It's deeply ingrained, it goes to the core of American cultural history and ideology.
It's tragic, and it's not something I can see a political solution to.
GodandLove
Bluelighter
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Nice edit.
Hey Forigner, since your making "adjustments" ....don't you think it'd be a good idea to move this thread...to CE&P? Last I checked this was a cultural issue....It has absolutely nothing to do with philosophy or spirituality.
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GodandLove
Bluelighter
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