Guards tear down Aboriginal protesters' shelter

[lostpunk5545]

it isn't pride
it is greed
aborigines want their money for nothing and their chicks for free

And they have every right to after we decimated their entire culture.

The German government is still paying reparations to the jewish people for WWII.

We however have done pretty much shit all except for wipe all the problems under the carpet. Just look at The Block in redfern for example. Instead of trying to help sort out the underlying issues we just ignore them and then act surprised when they don't go away. Centralising poverty is a great way to forget it exists.

Abstudy doesn't take away all the problems when the kids still have to go home to poverty, centrelink doesn't help people out of poverty, community programs do. If you think any differently then quite simply, you're a fucking idiot.

Unfortunately most government funding is going into policing the aboriginal population not helping them.

Shove all your problems under the rug
Then you wonder where the smell came from
Rotting out from the inside

- Descendents

 

[endlesseulogy]

to whine about the pride and recognition they have lost, it makes them no better than those new generations in the middle east who continue to wage war based on what their forefathers lost

You are pathetic. The Arabs have a living, working culture that they are able to practice in many many countries. The native population of this country have no such thing. Of course its not healthy to wallow in pity for too long but for fucks sake, they deserve a tiny piece of land in the CBD of Melbourne to play out their dance and perform their rituals. The problem is that the Aboriginals dont even have a treaty. Sign a fucking treaty with them you peice of shit Howard, then the process of communication can begin.

Australia should compare notes with New Zealand on how to treat the native population. Maoris seem to have a much better deal.

What the fuck is the big deal? Why does this hurt so many people?

 

[zephyr]

is is exactly right. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. If white people were intelligent they would have realised that we are all one and that industrialisation is and was ruining the planet and that other cultures are not to be feared. Building special ships and weapons was the British Empires attempt to concur and divide. They wouldnt have had the brains to do it if their motive was for the good of all humanity. Aboriginal people were in touch with their natural surroundings and have far greater knowledge of the natural world then the British ever did. When the British were advancing on outback Australia they always were amazed at how much the aboriginals knew about the natural environment and survival involved with it. Intelligence works on many different levels and its pretty stupid for you precha to use that as a lame justification.

Without industrialisation we would not be able to have arguments with each other on the internet and blowing smoke signals across the nullabor doesn't sound like much fun.

People have been raping, conquering and pillaging each other since the dawn of time. We will self destruct eventually. Humans are arseholes to each other, thats all there is to it.

Do you think if the Brits hadnt "invaded" Australia that it would be untouched today? No way- someone else would have come and done it. Its just the way it is.

The more technologically advanced won. Theres no use crying about it now and no tent embassy will make any difference anyway.

 

[Shnouzerpuff]

and the people trying to enter wernt a threat? paste the whole article.

I am pretty sure that the rest of the article is smack-bang on page one, first post.
If you really want the introduction then feel free to re-add it yourself, but I think you are entirely missing the point.

I didn't cut away parts of the article in a covert way to imply bias, I cut away some unnecessary bits that didn't lead into the highlighted text.

If that is the best you've got, you might as well not even try to argue.



"White guilt" does nothing for races who were wronged because it doesn't really change anything; the conquerors don't give up their privilege.

 

[endlesseulogy]

Without industrialisation we would not be able to have arguments with each other on the internet and blowing smoke signals across the nullabor doesn't sound like much fun.

People have been raping, conquering and pillaging each other since the dawn of time. We will self destruct eventually. Humans are arseholes to each other, thats all there is to it.

Do you think if the Brits hadnt "invaded" Australia that it would be untouched today? No way- someone else would have come and done it. Its just the way it is.

The more technologically advanced won. Theres no use crying about it now and no tent embassy will make any difference anyway.

^^ I dunno, I guess you might one day develop some emotional feeling to something outside yourself. Humans are great at solving problems. We have gone the moon, developed nuclear weapons and have been able to grow our OWN organs in labs. I’m 100% sure that if we put all that brain power together we can save this planet from destruction. The attitude you take is an evolutionary dead end. It's attitudes like yours that will attribute to our extinction. I guess in the end it comes down to realisation. Maybe it also has something to do with merging into the world around you. Rather then rebounding everything you see and limiting it to such a narrow spectrum of your conscious attention. Who the fuck knows? Certainly not me, or you, or anyone for that matter. But what needs to be known is that we are able to act and reverse injustice. In doing so, we quell the apparent destructive nature of our species. In doing so, after time, we evolve and learn new patterns of behaviour. Then negative slowly turns to positive and our planet can breathe again. Injustice will turn into justice.

"I am pretty sure that the rest of the article is smack-bang on page one, first post.
If you really want the introduction then feel free to re-add it yourself, but I think you are entirely missing the point.

I didn't cut away parts of the article in a covert way to imply bias, I cut away some unnecessary bits that didn't lead into the highlighted text.

If that is the best you've got, you might as well not even try to argue.



"White guilt" does nothing for races who were wronged because it doesn't really change anything; the conquerors don't give up their privilege."

I apologise for making it seem that way. Its true, I did think you were being bias. Its good you cleared that up

My question still remains the same though..

The people who were going to the camp wern't threatening?

 

[Doppelganger]

Shnouzer - Those parts you've highlighted, you're taking out of context.

The aborigines had every right to have their protesters' shelter where it was. Is it not understandable for them to call it their land?

Hell, if I'm standing on a certain area of the footpath... that's my chunk of footpath [for the moment]. If someone pushed me off it, I'd be pretty pissed too.

When they say 'their' piece of land, I don't think they're suggesting no-one else has a right to use it. They're simply saying that their own personal rights were taken away, when they shouldn't have been .

 

[drEaMtiMe*@#]

And they have every right to after we decimated their entire culture.

The German government is still paying reparations to the jewish people for WWII.

We however have done pretty much shit all except for wipe all the problems under the carpet. Just look at The Block in redfern for example. Instead of trying to help sort out the underlying issues we just ignore them and then act surprised when they don't go away. Centralising poverty is a great way to forget it exists.

Abstudy doesn't take away all the problems when the kids still have to go home to poverty, centrelink doesn't help people out of poverty, community programs do. If you think any differently then quite simply, you're a fucking idiot.

Unfortunately most government funding is going into policing the aboriginal population not helping them.

just wanted to quote this because i think that lostpunk made some great points.

 

[drEaMtiMe*@#]

okay, let's put it this way: do you think that it is acceptable for a really big strong kid in primary school to beat up other kids and steal their lunches and/or lunch money just because he is stronger than all the other kids, and can...?

most parents and teachers teach their kids that this kind of behaviour is wrong, yet that's pretty much exactly what the english settlers did to the aborigines when they came over here, and it's pretty much what all conquerors have done throughout history.

it's all a bit hypocritical don't ya think. so why then do people constantly teach their kids that this kind of behaviour is wrong, if that's the way that the world really works?

 

[endlesseulogy]

^^ Great post and great point.

Its all a bit ironic isnt it.

See thats why society functions under the illusion that everything is just and hunky dory when in reality when you take into account all the twisting, press manipulation, shady business deals, false advertising and unfairness that goes on you are confronted with a whole mess of double standards and general dodgyness that as far as im concerned borderlines legality. I do concede that we have it good in Australia compared to other countries but really that is no justification for anything. We teach our children politically correct morals in school to form some sort of moral base to use in later life but those moral will become eroded over time once they see how the real world functions. Concepts like dog eat dog and fuck the other person begin to come into play.

Keej : The point is that the Aboriginals on protest are infact claiming back the land, just like the British did in 1778. Would you care about government land infringments when dealing with a government that still hasnt publicly apologized or reconciled with people who they took so much from? Even countries like South Africa who had similar laws previously to Australia have come a long way in reconciling with the people. The government is simply untrustworthy and no SMART people will take that lying down.

 

[Shnouzerpuff]

^^ Why lie down when you can build...

...a gunyah!

 

[endlesseulogy]

^^ As i stated before, the Aboriginals are not looking for land to be used exclusively by members of their community. What you are saying doesn't really make sense. Your examples are extremely far fetched and defy common sense. A particular clan or family in Norway is a little different from a whole culture that spans the second largest island on earth. A culture made up of several sub-cultures, beliefs and languages. Norway is today has come to terms with its past (i assume) and its people have learnt to except their differences and different clans have aquired recognition and goodwill from other clans. This is definitely not the case here.

Is the process of saying sorry and having sympathy for something so rigid and callous these days? Its not only about sorry. Its more about acceptance and recognition. Its about valuing Aboriginal culture and heritage. The leaders of this nation simply aren't making the effort, then they complain when the social problems in the Aboriginal community get out of hand. Thats what happens when you rob a people of their identity and leave it all to the dogs. As Lostpunk said before, "sweep it under the carpet".

 

[endlesseulogy]

the Wurundjeri tribe does not equal a whole culture that spanned the second largest island on earth.

If you cant see the difference between a norwegian king fighting with NORWEGIAN tribes and the Australian aboriginals fighting (if you could call it that as it was blatantly one sided) one the of the largest colonising forces history has ever seen, you need to look harder.

 

[endlesseulogy]

The difference is scale and intent.

The British intended on whiping out the whole gene pool. Much like Radovan Karadzic intended on doing to Muslim bloodlines in Bosnia Herzogovina, the nazi's in Germany and the Boars in South Africa.

The British stole Aboriginal babies and brought them into White families so that they could not procreate with other Aboriginals.

Its just not the same injustice. Therefore it needs to be treated differently.

 

[Shnouzerpuff]

"but keej...that's wrong because....because.... I DISAGREE!"

 

[lostpunk5545]

When the present day aboriginals are still majorly screwed over because of what our ancestors did it becomes our issue in the present to make an effort to fix things.

 

[keej]

Uh, no. We attempt to fix things because it's humane and the right thing to do, because we don't want to see a group of people unable to rise up and achieve an equal footing in society.

We don't do it based on the actions of some people 200 years ago, who many of us don't agree with nor do we directly descend from.

 

[endlesseulogy]

^^Well then why dont you practice what you preach and support the Aboriginal people and listen to their concerns regarding land instead of making fun of their cooking utensils and dire situation. You seem to banter on and offer no REAL solution. You do exactly what my peers in this forum accuse me of doing, but in reverse. 8)

Quite ironic really.

 

[Shnouzerpuff]

All this complaining EE...

You sound like a Wurundjeri.

You feel guilt, so you are happy to apologise. Cool. Go say sorry to every Aboriginal you meet, I couldn't care less either way.

A lot of other people don't feel guilt (for reasons quite well covered earlier... not least of which that they were not even alive at the time of the crimes). For people who don't feel guilty - why should they apologise? Because you feel sorry? What kind of arrogance is that?

Is the process of saying sorry and having sympathy for something so rigid and callous these days?

To say sorry you have to feel sorry. Don't get me wrong I feel a level of sympathy, but there is no way I am personally going to apologise for something that I was not responsible for.

It makes about as much sense to me as saying that I am sorry for shooting Kennedy.

from The Victim Mentality:

Victims tend to see the control and responsibility for their situations as belonging to others, i.e. the bad things that happen to them are always someone else's fault. This is a destructive mindset, as not only does the victim feel negatively about their current situation, but they also feel powerless to change it.

Victor Frankl survived the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz by discovering the ultimate freedom "to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to chose one's own way."

Covey describes two concentric circles, the inner for influence and the outer for concern. Proactive people focus on the things they can control (the circle of influence) and their influencce grows. Victims focus on what they cannot control (things outside the circle of influence but in the circle of control) and their circle of influence shrinks

Sure there were some horrid things that happened to the Aborigines in the past, but if the current generation cannot get over the victim mentality (for things that happened also before they were born) then they might just as well spend their working week building gunyahs in the heart of the CBD.

 

[lostpunk5545]

I'm sure the Aborigingal people can just click their fingers and wish themselves out of poverty. The victim mentality comes from dire present circumstances.

You have a child's ability at grasping problems.

 

[endlesseulogy]

For some strange reason i would find it more plausible to believe the first hand accounts of people who have been treated wrongly then the work of Covey. This particular theory has been debated time and time again so in no way is it gospel. Far from it infact. Very fucking scientific. NOT.

"There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society, with a large segment of people in that society, who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that they have nothing to lose. People who have a stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it."

MLK jr.