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god.....what religion am i

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
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Looking-Glass Land
When people use the term god how do we know what god they're referring to? Someone asked me if I believed in god..I said I believe in a god, no god in particular. Would that make me an agnostic theist? Since I believe in a creator.

Also is it possible to be just agnostic? If your belief is that you're unsure and it is unknowable whether or not a god exists or not
 
Does sound compatible with deism.

Why does it matter to you that what you believe has a name?
 
Deism is the idea that there is some sort of creator being / unmoved mover, but that this being does not interact at all with their creation afterward.
 
Im not sure what you believe in has a name. but from your brief description i think i believe the same. Like being agnostic except for believing that there is a "god". Just that there is no conceivable way to tell what kind of god or what, for lack of a better word "Morals" he/it adheres to.
 
Imagine a being, outside of our universe, with an IQ of 4trillion on our scale. They could have created our universe, let alone us.. Sorry i know that doesn't contribute to the thread i just been thinking about it recently..

Think about it. With peoples IQ in the 150 range being able to create the artificial intelligence, physics engines, and cyber worlds we have.. imagine what kind of creation a being thats googolplex times larger than our universe, with the IQ thats trillions of times more than ours could create.
 
You just blew my mind.

But what if a creature four googolplexes times larger than our universe with an IQ thousands of trillions times Einstein crapped our universe out of it's three tentacled ass?

It's just as likely. Three tentacled crapism.

I'm not saying there isn't something bigger than the universe, but what makes you (or anyone that believes in a God) assume that they consciously created us anymore than we consciously created the micro-organisms living inside us?

If mirco-organisms developed consciousness would they consider us their God? And would we be? Or would their God be our God, the creator that we assume for no reason is up there at the top of the chain, conscious of our existence and their existence.

If we are part of a chain of life leading up towards a higher power, why separate ourselves from the chain and assume that we are in some way artificial (for a lack of a better word)?

Isn't it just as possible that we are a tiny part of God rather than his creation?

It seems that if something was truly as intelligent as you are suggesting it would create something more impressive than us.

As you said we are getting closer and closer to creating virtual environments and artificial intelligence with our measly 150 IQ. So logically a highly evolved creature with an IQ of 1,000,000,000+ would be thinking a little bit bigger. Don't you think?

If anything we would be like the atom or the ant or the micro-organism. A tiny detail in an incomprehensibly large program, a line of code in a self generating program.

As the definition of deism has been defined:

Deism is the idea that there is some sort of creator being / unmoved mover, but that this being does not interact at all with their creation afterward.
Click to expand...

Excluding Christian creationism which is downright idiotic, this means that all God did in terms of creating the universe was the big bang. A single event that would explode into life.

Everything else is arbitrary.
 
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I don't believe we are artificial.. I said we could be.


As you said we are getting closer and closer to creating virtual environments and artificial intelligence with our measly 150 IQ. So logically a highly evolved creature with an IQ of 1,000,000,000+ would be thinking a little bit bigger. Don't you think?
Click to expand...

I don't get what you are saying.. Are you suggesting that something with a far greater IQ wouldn't bother creating artificial life?
 
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No I'm saying that for something that large and impressive, we wouldn't be much of a creation would we? We would be incomprehensibly small and insignificant. It wouldn't be comparable to man creating a sentient species somewhat akin to ourselves. It would be comparable to man creating a piece of dust so why would we bother? The piece of dust on the other hand might exist as a microscopic part of a greater creation. Like how when we invent something it has a molecular structure.

We aren't aware of the molecules themselves.

They are arbitrary.
 
^ I fail to understand how your subjective definition of "impressive" can be viewed as objective within our realm of comprehension. Compared to a lot (if not all things) known in the universe, i would consider the human body and the human mind to be right up there with the most "impressive".

Tell me why you disagree.
 
TheDeceased said:
No I'm saying that for something that large and impressive, we wouldn't be much of a creation would we? We would be incomprehensibly small and insignificant. It wouldn't be comparable to man creating a sentient species somewhat akin to ourselves. It would be comparable to man creating a piece of dust so why would we bother? The piece of dust on the other hand might exist as a microscopic part of a greater creation. Like how when we invent something it has a molecular structure.

We aren't aware of the molecules themselves.

They are arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Yeah i disagree. Man was impressed when he created fire, the wheel, pong, etc.. Who knows? Maybe this higher being ould have just created the laws of our universe and "life" happened along the way.. just to see if it could.
 
^ I fail to understand how your subjective definition of "impressive" can be viewed as objective within our realm of comprehension. Compared to a lot (if not all things) known in the universe, i would consider the human body and the human mind to be right up there with the most "impressive".

Tell me why you disagree.
Click to expand...

Molecular systems are extraordinarily complex yet they don't assume, besides the fact that they're incapable of doing so, that they were created by something greater than them.

It makes as much sense to assume that we are a small part of something. That the chain doesn't end with us. The universe could be entirely insignificant.

Yeah i disagree. Man was impressed when he created fire, the wheel, pong, etc.. Who knows? Maybe this higher being ould have just created the laws of our universe and "life" happened along the way.. just to see if it could.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying: leaning towards that belief rather than another doesn't make any sense. There is no evidence. There is nothing leading us to believe we were consciously created. So why not leave it unanswered? Why do people have to decide (with varying degrees of certainty) about the existence of something or the nature of something that has yet to be encountered?

Anything is possible. Isn't it better to entertain all possibilities than to limit ourselves largely to this creator idea?
 
Compared to a lot (if not all things) known in the universe, i would consider the human body and the human mind to be right up there with the most "impressive".

Tell me why you disagree.
Click to expand...

How much of the universe is known?

We've been to our moon. We have very basic knowledge of everything else.

Maybe we know 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the universe.

Maybe.

It's not very much, is it?

I don't disagree. Of the extraordinarily small amount of information we have regarding life in the universe, we are the most impressive. But since we have yet to travel to other systems and encounter other sentient species that have evolved on different planets with different atmospheres/ gravity etc, that statement doesn't mean anything.

It's like some bacteria that lives in your intestine believing that it is the most evolved form of bacteria in the galaxy because it knows that it is the most evolved bacteria in your intestine.

Evolution means life will continue to become more and more complex. We aren't the apex of evolution. We are still evolving. It's unrealistic to assume that throughout the last couple of billion years, no planet that formed before Earth ever gotten to a similar or higher state of existence. Regardless we are still evolving. So is God conscious of the thing that we grow into? Is that his creation? Or is it the chimpanzee? Or us? Or the first fish that crawled out of the ocean? Why are we any more his creation than anything else in the massive chain of evolution?

Is God like Santa Clause - does he know everything about what is happening simultaneously on every planet over billions of years? Or was it all designed to get to this point. Everything, the entire universe, created so that our race could one day exist?

Deism as somebody said is a non-interfering God. So all he did was create the big bang and set evolution in motion.

We are a tiny part of a massive chain of events.

I cannot understand the assumption that we were intended. Maybe life was intended. Maybe the universe was created, but we certainly weren't - as far as I'm concerned.
 
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TheDeceased said:
Molecular systems are extraordinarily complex yet they don't assume, besides the fact that they're incapable of doing so, that they were created by something greater than them.

It makes as much sense to assume that we are a small part of something. That the chain doesn't end with us. The universe could be entirely insignificant.



I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying: leaning towards that belief rather than another doesn't make any sense. There is no evidence. There is nothing leading us to believe we were consciously created. So why not leave it unanswered? Why do people have to decide (with varying degrees of certainty) about the existence of something or the nature of something that has yet to be encountered?

Anything is possible. Isn't it better to entertain all possibilities than to limit ourselves largely to this creator idea?
Click to expand...

We seem to be agreeing but arguing anyway ;) I never said i believed it.. just that it's possible.
 
Yeah I tend to get carried away a bit when I'm super high. The OP said he believed in God/ a creator. Which is possible, but it's just as possible that there is no God. A lot of people believe more in one direction without any reason to do so.

I'm all for entertaining the possibilities. Maybe there is a God. Maybe there isn't. To decide that there is a God is like deciding that the world is flat. We haven't gotten to a point of being able to determine if he/she/it exists, so why take sides?

Yeah i disagree. Man was impressed when he created fire, the wheel, pong, etc.. Who knows? Maybe this higher being ould have just created the laws of our universe and "life" happened along the way.. just to see if it could.
Click to expand...

My point there was that if he did create the universe and we are an absolutely tiny part of it then are we really the creation? Or are we just an arbitrary component of the greater creation.

Your example of fire. Man creates fire, but he does't create the individual flames. He doesn't know how they are going to dance. We are not the fire. The fire is the universe.

We are a tiny flame that dances at a particular angle for a thousandth of a second.

See what I mean?

We are arbitrary.

(That's what you originally disagreed with. Not the certainty of God.)
 
^ You've lost me..

I disagreed with :

No I'm saying that for something that large and impressive, we wouldn't be much of a creation would we?
Click to expand...

Which i interpreted as because we are so small and "simple" to a higher intelligence being that a higher intelligence being wouldn't bother creating us.. / it'd be a waste of time for them.
 
I'm being a little pedantic about the word creation.

Maybe this higher being ould have just created the laws of our universe and "life" happened along the way.. just to see if it could.
Click to expand...

^I agree with this part more or less.

What I'm saying is, given the complexity and size of the universe, and the very short time we as a species have existed, it is unlikely that we are a particularly significant part of that creation. Hence the flame/fire analogy. It is possible that the big bang started artificially but I don't see how it's possible for something to have steered evolution in a particular direction after that initial explosion. "God" doesn't interfere with us. He has not molded us in his image. We exist arbitrarily as do all species on this planet. If our solar system was structured differently we would have evolved differently. If Earth had four moons instead of one and had a different orbital pattern with a much larger sun, etc. The laws of the universe, like you said, change in appearance with any given variable. It seems to me that the universe is the creation: That every species and every planet in the universe is just as important as us and our planet but religious types tend to have some sort of misguided ownership over God. They believe there is a connection between this incomprehensible entity and life on our tiny planet. But not just life, particularly humans. We are the creation. We God's children, the height of evolution, the center of the universe, blah blah blah. That's what I disagree with.

it'd be a waste of time for them.
Click to expand...

For something capable of creating a universe I believe it would be, comparatively, a waste of time to create or plan for a single species. We are such a tiny speck of the creation. Not the creation itself. That's all I'm saying.
 
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