Bupe God damned doctors

[hydrobitartrate]

Ive found myself to be in a bit of pickle, I got kicked out of my sub doctors office. This isn't one of those how to talk to a new doctor sort of thread not what I'm looking for. I got injured at work and tore my patellar tendon and since I had suboxone listed by all my meds, the orthopedic surgeon obviously wouldn't script me anything I didn't even try to ask. I saw my doc a few days later and was straight up with him about my injury it was obvious anyway. I asked him to prescribe me something besides suboxone just this once, he wasn't open to the idea at all and strongly believed that the suboxone was enough for the pain(bullshit it does nothing) So I did what I had to and got some methadone and some oxy to hold me for a bit, failed a drug test and got kicked out. Tough shit that I also had let this doc take over my Xanax script too. So now I'm screwed doesn't he realize what an injured addict is going to do every goddamned time? Seriously as a sub doctor how could my behavior not have been predicted? Anyway that's not the point. So I gotta go find new docs or I'm gonna be in a bad way pretty soon with the Xanax. My old pain management dr. told me I could come back if I got myself cleaned up which I have for the most part I just don't know if that's gonna do anything for me, granted all he ever scripted me was norcos which I can no longer feel in any amount, but that's probably apparent to him by now. Shoould I just find someone else? I'm gonna find another shrink to pick up the benzos as fast as I can, but I cannot be opoid free either back issues and whatnot. ugh what the hell do you do?

 

[JebJebJeb]

Ha a doctor is a trained professional whose JOB is to save peoples lives not waste his time on some druggy how dare you insult them

 

[Cliffy78]

Guess u don't wanna stick around jeb, ur banning is imminent

 

[JebJebJeb]

Excuse me I am a doctor myself

 

[smackydowners]

youre a fucking prick is what you are. no way are you a doctor. if you are, youre a dentist or youre like 80.

helping fucked up junkies (as well as everyone else) is exactly a doctors job you subnormal fucktard.

 

[speedballs_over]

Can't possibly be a physician of any empathy, or intelligence and little current knowledge. Even those two course hours of pharmacy they take (in US med school) should have imparted the concept that there is a quick fix for simple opioid ODs, and medical fixes for dependency. I believe they're termed reversal agents and maintenance drugs, for opioid overdoses and addiction. MMT, bupe, i.e., opioid replacement therapy (ORT, MMT, BUPE, etc...) are the gold standard, evidence based treatments per AMA & SAMHSA for the (medical) care of opioid dependency. It's more complicated with chronic pain. But meds for pain, esp., opioids should never be off-limits. So what if you catch a habit? We can taper that and it's better than a life of pain, imo.

In those cases of chronic pain the best success I've heard is methadone in split doses four times a day from Pain Management, but what do I know I'm just a pharma chemist and former everything addict who never went to AA?

Medical options are very available, any physician unwilling to work with a patient in recovery - or who won't locate a referral for genuinely continued care - is affirming their ignorance or fear, either way it's dispicable. Or they are running tight with the DEA and need to keep a head down - those are the worst.

Let's hope this was a misunderstanding. Pain meds could be a malpractice issue, but i quickly see the fallacy in that, so better standards of care? How to measure, and on and on...

 

[hydrobitartrate]

Well Jeb, if a doctor advertises himself as a sub doc, and takes 200 bucks a month from me, in a desperate effort to stay clean (ish). I'd say his job is to take care of that particular druggie and not throw him under the bus the first time he fails a drug test. You say you're a doctor and this is your attitude? If that's the case you're pithetic and you need your license pulled. I did the most logical thing i could possibly do, hell i even took methadone over much funer options and at greater cost because i was trying to minimize the risk to my sobriety. Which is the one and only reason i ever saw this dr. I'll be making some calls today looking for new docs. Go ahead and tell me your name and where you practice so we won't be so unfortunate as to cross paths. I still box occasionally. ..

 

[hydrobitartrate]

Oh and thanks speedballs

 

[Mad Dash]

So now I'm screwed doesn't he realize what an injured addict is going to do every goddamned time? Seriously as a sub doctor how could my behavior not have been predicted? Anyway that's not the point. So I gotta go find new docs or I'm gonna be in a bad way pretty soon with the Xanax.

Dude, accept responsibility. This was entirely your fault. Your doctor could have empathized a bit more, but if he is straight up a suboxone doctor...Then no, he could not have. Not his job to do that. In fact he can lose his license for doing that. Sorry but you need to take it like a man on this one. And BTW there are plenty of injured addicts on this board, myself included that don't score on the street b/c we felt entitled to do whatever the hell we wanted to.

 

[speedballs_over]

Sure, anytime I can critique a physician I'll take a shot, fair or maybe not, that's a fault of mine. I've met many, many excellent physicians, surgeons and nurses /support staff, EMTs, etc... Along my long journey. It's always those that know or empathize that got me through. The hard assess just set me back, and not b/c I rebelled and relapsed, but b/c they made I'll advised, disagreeable medical decisions that made my situation worse regardless my efforts.

Had I gone to any other outfit but my Southwest USA methadone clinic, chances are I'd be with my dear friends. One mmt clinic with reasonable rules gave me the stabilizing and support I needed to end the madness. A lot of work on my part too!

I came off as a dick on a stick. I should tone it down. The best approach would be to list well reviewed, repeated, per reviewed studies. Unfortunately some, maybe the majority aren't as unbiased as we'd assume, and require.

Vitriol for opioid addiction, seriously? And the GP prescribing it likely knows little about the very common depression that occurs and the extremely high relapse rate, occasionally ending in death after a drop in tolerance and resumption of use.

My anger should be at policy makers, poor physicians in general, insurance / Medicade, Medicare (US), and pharmaceutical companies that lobby for drugs like OC160s as non addicting. Remember those 160s? That dates you to my years in the game.

I get frustrated at physicians, but hold my tongue in meetings b/c despite my writing I'm very good at communicating with my physicians. I like them, esp., the psych. Lots of trust, lots of agreement most other are quacks.

MMT saved my life when AA / rational recovery failed me, or I failed it, a bad guilt trap there but we also have to take some responsibility.

In general there is a lack of effective, evidence based treatment (not for a lack of evidence) for "junkies".

Mental health and physical health to me are so intertwined that I believe we need to do away with separate facilities in the USA for each and treat the entire body, mind included by the same standards of rigour, in the same facilities with better coordination of care. In the end it should save $.

 

[Cliffy78]

Great posts speedball and hydro! Oh man those 160caps were something else man, didn't seem to be around very long but they were great while they were around. Btw this guy is no dr, I went over all of his posts and I'm guessing he's an anti drug 20yr old. He just signed up at like 2am last night, I tried to counterpost him everywhere he made a rude post(which was all his posts) but idk if I got to them all. Some people are unreal, dude reminded me of a cop...

 

[Bropiace]

Well I for one completely agree's with the OP and Speedball. A competent, empathetic Sub doc is a rare thing.

To the OP, my experience is that those specialized clinics are used to take in patient that failed and relapsed. I would look around and find a new doc that can take you as soon as possible. Maybe in the mean time you can score the Sub off the street.

There is so many addict and not enough ressources (at least in my country) that they don't care losing one patient. On the other hand they should consider relapsing part of the process and not a deal breaker. Ain't that simple tho cause they want people to be serious about kicking it but still.

And since we are rethinking the world it is my opinion that the big pharma should be responsible and pay some sort of tax to help as much addict as possible. After all they are making huge margin of profit and no matter how much people are convinced each individual addicts are responsible for their fate, in the end, we are all collateral damage from the drug industry and you can't produce those kind of drugs and believe no one will end up abusing it. Everyone from the addict, the prescribing Doc, the law makers and the big pharma all share the responsibility.

 

[hydrobitartrate]

As was mentioned earlier i know i bear responsibility on this as well. I know i did somthing i shouldn't have done. However it's exeedingly rare that someone gets on maintenance and never ever finds an excuse to relapse just a little. You guys have been great, i agree with everything you guys are saying.

 

[Bropiace]

You are damn right. Hopefully you will now make the best out of your shitty situation and with any luck get back soon to a proper treatment.

In the meantime, if you end up using regularly, try to keep your usage as low as possible and taper it slowly but surely. At least you won't be back to square one when you get back on the program.

 

[pbuilder]

Ive found myself to be in a bit of pickle, I got kicked out of my sub doctors office. This isn't one of those how to talk to a new doctor sort of thread not what I'm looking for. I got injured at work and tore my patellar tendon and since I had suboxone listed by all my meds, the orthopedic surgeon obviously wouldn't script me anything I didn't even try to ask. I saw my doc a few days later and was straight up with him about my injury it was obvious anyway. I asked him to prescribe me something besides suboxone just this once, he wasn't open to the idea at all and strongly believed that the suboxone was enough for the pain(bullshit it does nothing) So I did what I had to and got some methadone and some oxy to hold me for a bit, failed a drug test and got kicked out. Tough shit that I also had let this doc take over my Xanax script too. So now I'm screwed doesn't he realize what an injured addict is going to do every goddamned time? Seriously as a sub doctor how could my behavior not have been predicted? Anyway that's not the point. So I gotta go find new docs or I'm gonna be in a bad way pretty soon with the Xanax. My old pain management dr. told me I could come back if I got myself cleaned up which I have for the most part I just don't know if that's gonna do anything for me, granted all he ever scripted me was norcos which I can no longer feel in any amount, but that's probably apparent to him by now. Shoould I just find someone else? I'm gonna find another shrink to pick up the benzos as fast as I can, but I cannot be opoid free either back issues and whatnot. ugh what the hell do you do?

Honestly it's your own fault. If you're serious about recovery, then you have to battle through the pain when you get injured. Quit rationalizing your usage, you wanted to get high.

 

[cj]

Ha a doctor is a trained professional whose JOB is to save peoples lives not waste his time on some druggy how dare you insult them

Your an idiot. If he is prescribing suboxone then that means his entire practice is likely devoted to treating opiate addicts. I think the orthopedist is the one at fault addict or not when a serious injury occurs opiate addicts deserve pain control just like anyone else. Of course the sub doc compounded the bad situation. I can understand him not writing the narcotics to some degree. But kicking you out after one failed test is fucking barbaric. Especially considering the circumstances. I'm sorry OP you got screwed all the way around. This is exactly why many addicts are not honest with health care proffesionals about our drug use.

 

[hydrobitartrate]

You couldn't be more right I'll probably be just less than honest with my next doc, ya know unless i run out of xanax and die in the meanwhile looking for another doc. I just bought a house so i really can't support an illicit habit anymore.

 

[Mad Dash]

You couldn't be more right I'll probably be just less than honest with my next doc, ya know unless i run out of xanax and die in the meanwhile looking for another doc. I just bought a house so i really can't support an illicit habit anymore.

First of all it is usually better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. Especially in this case, but the way the doctor saw it was you came into his office, sat in his chair and asked for pain medication while you are already on bupe and xanax (BTW I have never heard of an addictionologist RXing xanax while a patient is on bupe so really you just bit the hand that was feeding you). He told you, in no uncertain terms: NO. In his eyes it was over after that, he trusted that you would follow the rules not just set up by him, but by the FDA concerning doctors who are specially certified to write bupe. In these rules if the doctor does not report a failed UA and eject you from his clinic he can lose his license. He ejected you but it does not sound like he reported you if he told you to find another doctor, so you should be thankful that messing up didn't land you in hotter shit. I know people who have been red-flagged in the data base and can not get bupe anymore, they are on methadone now.

Second, I would recommend that if you can not find a doctor to write both of these things you go to the ER, because they will have to give you something for the time being. Third, what do you mean by your PM doc would take you back if you "cleaned up?" Because if he heard about this, or you did get red-flagged in the database, he will know and you are probably screwed... so what do you mean by cleaned up?

 

[Bropiace]

@pbuilder Whatever the rationalization was, whatever if it really was an excuse to get high or that it was the compound effect of the pain, the excuse to get meds, to constant struggle not to use, fact remains that the guy wanted to go on with his Sub on stop using again and was deny the chance.

I am at the moment refraining the urge to be impolite because that is how reading your comment makes me feel.

Maybe your intent was to give some though love or maybe you just don't care but I still wanted to say this to you. And show to the OP some support hoping he gets back on Sub soon.

 

[dirzted]

I swear to god the entire idea of relapse being a reason to kick someone out of a treatment program will seem absolutely barbaric in a few decades. Would you kick someone out of a cancer treatment if their chemo wasn't working? Unbelievable. Nonetheless, you still need to accept some responsibility, but yes being honest about your back pain, conceding that it is typical of an addict to use stories like that, and just showing an honest motivation to manage your pain will do nothing but good for you in a doctor's office.
good luck