I dunno, I thik hedonistic pleasuie is a valid pursuit. I f people like having fun, and they find that certain drugs enhance their fun beyond even the best fun they can have straight, then they are having more fun. Fun is good. It makes people happy. it can make people more benevolent in their dealings with others. It releases tension
I've used psychedelics, often just at sweaty little pounding acid parties, sometimes deep in the woods with friends, sometimes spanking me chimp in the middle of a Polish syburb
, I've also used psychs alone, and find other metal, spiritual, introspective enhancements...
But that's no longer my aim with drugs. Drugs enhance my enjoyment of life, they sometimes help me relax, I don't think that's a shlame. I wouldn't think it a shame if someone feels that the sole reason for drug taking is recreation.
I might take some shrrooms again this year, it will purely be about having a laugh, there's usually a good chance something more profound will pop up too though
But it won't be my intent.
There's absolutely nowt wrong with hedonistic pleasure seeking. That's a worthy pursuit.
But you also acknowledge and have experienced other benefits of drug taking, and additional reasons for taking them other than just getting cunted, or them just being recreational. They can be both, and at the same time, as you say. And that's a perfect marriage for me tbh.
I am still extremely dubious about any kind of lasting, or even temporary, benefit that can be derived from using drugs in a non-therapeutic context beyond recreational hedonism. Placing stock in experiences or lessons gained from chemically altering your brain temporarily could equally have the opposite effect to that which it is assumed you are getting i.e. lead you to become very deluded and disconnected both from external reality and the reality of who you are. I know a lot of people in this position. Many are convinced they know a lot about space, when they really don't. They also tell me that I am extremely closed minded for not taking their word for it that aliens have landed on earth. Also, Timothy Leary was just a fame hungry scumbag FBI grass. His hippy morals seemed to have deserted him when it came to crunch time.
Agreed (to the bolded bit) ... Any realisations or perspectives gained in such circumstances are not knowledge, it's just a perspective, and it's only really of any use if it can be used constructively and may be 'proved' in a physical sense gained from actual first person experience and interaction. it can be, as I've spoken about before. I'm not talking about intergallactic, maths, physics, cosmic theories. I'm talking about pure personal behavioural realisations about the self,
(my)self and what motivates
a person me. SHM managed to say in 2 sentences what it took me 4 paragraphs to write last time we talked about this when YPDH asked about psychs and their (potential) benefits to
some .. it's a purely individual thing though, but commonly understood and experienced by many, and it's not hippy related ;p. It is not universal.
Agreed about the space comment too. I also have a friend like this and he drives me to distraction with frustration.
I mean realisations to do with undertsanding the self and internal motivations and the benefits from that.
The fact that if you take too much LSD, mushrooms, or ecstasy, results in diminishing returns to the point of nothing, shows that what is to be gained isn't necessarily there.
Agree totally with the above too. Well, in that overuse has this potential ... I can't say it DOES because I haven't experienced it. I'm a fairly cautious user of anything. I take mushrooms about 6 times a year tops, possibly less. All other drugs in moderation ... less than shrooms.
[edit] The potential for the mind to fool itself while under the influence of substances is huge and more likely it would seem to me when use is out of the control of your regular sober state of mind. So we probably agree on that too
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The only thing it really awakens is a realisation that you were lied to from birth by the government.
Just in case you weren't implying it, although I think you must be, the above is just from your own experience, and not something you believe to be universally attained by everyone equally, yes? Since you know you can't make that statement for anyone but yourself.
Tbh, all I'm really interested in acknowledging here (as a response to PTCH's original comment), is mainly that the statement about 'you're fooling yourself if you take drugs for any other reason other than recreationally' is a false one, and to express that drugs may be taken for other reasons as well as purely for recreational ones, and also as JOINT recreational and advancement ones .. and possibly a number of other reasons.
I'm not stating that everyone will get the same results, or that some wont be a possible hindrance to them, or that it is not open to developing delusions, or false beliefs. It depends on the person. Even basic knowledge seeking without drug use produces those possibilities.
I have a friend who uses psychs and disassociatives looking for answers and he just becomes more and more distanced with his environment and unhappy, so I do totally understand why you are skeptical. it's a valid concern.
Can we put tim leary and terence mckenna and the hippies in a box and file under 'failed'
yes! ...
... I hope your bosses maintain their supportive stance with you. I'd hate for you to lose your job, and I'm always half expecting to see you post about things taking a turn for the worst on that score. 
