Gibberings CV - The Nazis: A Warning From History

[parttime crackhead]

It makes you look a little bit silly when you don't fact check things you post to look clever, Spade. Jesus' birthday is never even stated as 25th December in the bible. It was also Osiris who rose again, rather than Horus. And Osiris rose to rule the undead, rather than on earth. Osiris was Isis's husband who had been killed by her brother, and she impregnated herself with his dead penis which had been turned into gold... In fact, if you'd have done any research at all you'd know this conspiracy theory (which it is, whether you believe in Jesus or not) has little to no merit and is based on one crack pot scholar's work from almost 100 years ago. He is totally rejected by almost all Egyptologists and historians today, Christian and non-Christian alike.


I don't think you've seen it, but i'll just add that the zeitgiest film is a load of shit from beginning to end.

I haven't checked the facts but the way it lays it out in Religulous (where I first really saw this whole "Jesus is made-up from past mythology" theory) seems credible & I assume that it is otherwise it would have been stupid to include it if it can be so easily rejected, as you just did with Spade's post. It doesn't state that Jesus = Horus though, it states that Jesus = lots of Horus like characters from the past.


Edit - Aye, Zeitgiest is a pile of shite.

Edit again - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5ACyiSPAmE Skip to 3:15 for some of the Horus etc stuff. The stuff before it is quite good as well, strangely enough the only sensible cunt he talks to is the Vatican astrologer - that wee guy actually makes sense. I'm sure he speaks to some other old Vatican dude who also makes perfect sense, despite being a hardcore Catholic, while everyone else comes across as a bit fucking stupid.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I haven't checked the facts but the way it lays it out in Religulous (where I first really saw this whole "Jesus is made-up from past mythology" theory) seems credible & I assume that it is otherwise it would have been stupid to include it if it can be so easily rejected, as you just did with Spade's post. It doesn't state that Jesus = Horus though, it states that Jesus = lots of Horus like characters from the past.


Edit - Aye, Zeitgiest is a pile of shite.

Let's assume Jesus is fake (shouldn't be too difficult for you ay ). There is no possible way that someone could have made this character up from scratch without going over old ground, even if they had absolutely no access to or knowledge of that information. Most of the stuff we know about Egyptian Gods and mythology has come from the tombs that were opened in the 19th and 20th centuries. It's a bit like the South Park episode of "The Simpsons already did it". The character of Jesus has parallels in Buddha, Osiris, Hinduism, Horus, and loads of Greek shit. In a world populated by humans that had existed for thousands of years before him, I very much doubt a character could be made that didn't.

 

[Mugz]

Religulous is a cracking film

 

[jancrow]

You can't take shit drugs inside a computer, Mugz!

 

[Mugz]

You can't take shit drugs inside a computer, Mugz!

"puzzled smiley" WTF? I didn't get that joke, please explain.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Let's assume Jesus is fake (shouldn't be too difficult for you ay ). There is no possible way that someone could have made this character up from scratch without going over old ground, even if they had absolutely no access to or knowledge of that information. Most of the stuff we know about Egyptian Gods and mythology has come from the tombs that were opened in the 19th and 20th centuries. It's a bit like the South Park episode of "The Simpsons already did it". The character of Jesus has parallels in Buddha, Osiris, Hinduism, Horus, and loads of Greek shit. In a world populated by humans that had existed for thousands of years before him, I very much doubt a character could be made that didn't.

Why would the Jesus story be true but the, for example, Horus story (recorded 3000 years earlier) be fake. You surely can't believe in all these other mythological figures, can you? So why on earth would you believe in Jesus? I know this is a pretty pointless debate lol, but that's what the Horus/Osiris/Krishna/Whatever thing means to me - All these previous, similar stories are clearly not thought of as true so why is the Jesus story? It's the whole "My religion is correct but yours is clearly a load of nonsense even though it's basically the same" thing that does my nut in.

Basically - Why was Jesus a man but Horus a myth?

 

[jancrow]

"puzzled smiley" WTF? I didn't get that joke, please explain.

I was lightly ribbing you by implying that you'd be unable to keep up your multi-day RC binges if you were a digital 'lifeform', that's all.

 

[mFenix]

MSB, you can disable content lock by logging into your account online and disabling it. Works for Virgin and T-Mobile, not sure about any other networks though.

Also, try getting through to someone on the helpline to disable it for you.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Why would the Jesus story be true but the, for example, Horus story (recorded 3000 years earlier) be fake. You surely can't believe in all these other mythological figures, can you? So why on earth would you believe in Jesus? I know this is a pretty pointless debate lol, but that's what the Horus/Osiris/Krishna/Whatever thing means to me - All these previous, similar stories are clearly not thought of as true so why is the Jesus story? It's the whole "My religion is correct but yours is clearly a load of nonsense even though it's basically the same" thing that does my nut in.

Basically - Why was Jesus a man but Horus a myth?

Well from my perspective, which you won't agree with, I looked at the merits and the scripture of all the religions I had access to, and Christianity was the one I chose. I started from a fundamental belief in God, thought that if God exists I should try and do something about it, and that led me to Christianity. I could categorically go through each religion, and the majority of the Paganesque beliefs before the Arbrahamic religions, and list the obvious flaws that stood out to me if you want, but I think everyone will get extremely bored extremely quickly. At the end of the day I feel that Christianity, even if most Christians including myself aren't good Christians according to the book, has a lot of merit not only in the way it is presented but in the way it asks it's followers to fundamentally behave. It is quite hard to read the New Testament and not come to the conclusion that if we all endevoured to behave like Christ, the world would be a very nice place indeed. I feel much the same way about Buddhism, but I don't think either of us can be bothered to go over why I chose one over the other.

MSB, you can disable content lock by logging into your account online and disabling it. Works for Virgin and T-Mobile, not sure about any other networks though.

Also, try getting through to someone on the helpline to disable it for you.

Thank you mFenix My main concern was that perhaps under 18s, especially those who are on ipads or dongles, will be stopped from coming on here because they need their parents to disable it for them? I'm sure they'll be enterprising enough, it's just the main claim to be HR that this forum has is in the fact that we are perhaps the number one place to find out about contaminated drugs.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Fair enough. I can't really argue with that, other than the obvious "THERE IS NO GOD" & we both know there's absolutely no point getting into that lol.

Seeing as you seem to have come at this from an outside point of view, ie not brainwashed as a child, then didn't you read all the silly stuff (world only being a few thousand years old, Noah's ark etc) & think "C'mon to fuck, this is bollocks"?

I'm not trying to argue the belief thing, just curious as to what you thought of these (clearly bullshit) stories & how you reconciled your faith with your knowledge that these things can't possibly be true.


Edit - One point though, you seem to have accepted the Christian faith as being real/true simply because you "know" that you believe in god & therefore decided to pick a team. Could it not be the case (in my opinion, much more likely the case) that all of the "religions" are bullshit but that a god still exists? Why did you feel you had to follow a religion?

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Fair enough. I can't really argue with that, other than the obvious "THERE IS NO GOD" & we both know there's absolutely no point getting into that lol.

Seeing as you seem to have come at this from at outside point of view, ie not brainwashed as a child, then didn't you read all the silly stuff (world only being a few thousand years old, Noah's ark etc) & think "C'mon to fuck, this is bollocks"?

I'm not trying to argue the belief thing, just curious as to what you thought of these (clearly bullshit) stories & how you reconciled your faith with your knowledge that these things can't possibly be true.

The bible doesn't state that the world is a few thousand years old, that's just a calculation that's been made by scholars, which has in turn been adopted by fundamentalists in America so that they can maintain their feelings of persecution despite living in a nation that is overwhelmingly Christian and free. If you go back 50-100 years you wouldn't have seen sermons on this entirely unimportant to Christianity topic, even in America. And in the UK today there are only a small handful of nut job churches where you will be told this sort of thing too. I've been to 10-20 churches in the last 5 years looking for the right church for me, and only one has been like that. The service went on for 3-4 hours, people were flailing about on the floor like fish, they'd loop songs round randomly so you could end up singing the same verse for 10 minutes, and perhaps worst of all everyone had that glazed eye look that you only really see in people who are part of some sort of cult.

Any way, I digress, how do I reconcile creationism with my belief in Christianity? I don't believe in creationism. There are clear indications that these stories are told to teach us lessons and convey a message in a time honoured allegorical tradition. The style of the passages is altogether different to the passages which are written as supposedly historical accounts. With regard to Noah's Ark, I have a strong suspicion that this wasn't allegorical, but rather the whole earth wasn't flooded. I think that a rather large area of the earth known to that small cluster of people was flooded. I certainly don't think that every last animal on the entire planet was loaded onto one boat, and I also don't understand where enough water to flood the entirity of the planet came from and disappeared to.

 

[masaz]

I fucking hate when you've got juuuuust too much liquid left in a bottle to fill your glass yet there's too much to pour away. I know I can just drink the last out the bottle but that's not the point, is it?!

 

[Cornishman]

Haha, JanCrow is baked methinks. Or I'm too baked

Anyway that zeitgeist film is often slated, but I found it relevant to Spade's post. Didn't it say that basically all historical/religious figures were representations of the sun (what with the solstice happening on the 25th December) rather than actual people.

And mugz, sorry I was being a tw@t. Of course it's you who's the 'bad influence'. :D

 

[Mugz]

I was lightly ribbing you by implying that you'd be unable to keep up your multi-day RC binges if you were a digital 'lifeform', that's all.

ahh, I get it now :D

 

[parttime crackhead]

@ MSB - Again, Fair enough lol.

I didn't know that creationism has only been popular in recent years. I get what you mean by "so that they can maintain their feelings of persecution despite living in a nation that is overwhelmingly Christian and free" though. Makes sense - be hated/mocked & then you have something to struggle against, a way to get people deeper & deeper into religion & what their mad cult/church (i mean that in the case of creationists, not trying to have a go at all churches) is teaching. American Christian nutters are the worst, they do act like they are the oppressed minority when clearly they are the oppressing majority. Similar to what some comedian I saw recently (can't remember who, maybe Frankie Boyle?) was saying about White Supremacists - "You're fighting to have a world where the white man reigns supreme? YOU ALREADY LIVE IN THAT WORLD YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!"

I'd read a similar theory re Noah's Ark. Basically, some wee farmer dude built a boat & saved his animals when his farm flooded. The story was passed on throughout the generations as a way to teach some sort of lesson (always be prepared? Haha, I actually don't know what the lesson is!) but, as with all re-telling of stories, it eventually changed from Noah saving 25 sheep to Noah saving 1000 sheep, to Noah saving all the sheep, to Noah saving all the animals in the world.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I fucking hate when you've got juuuuust too much liquid left in a bottle to fill your glass yet there's too much to pour away. I know I can just drink the last out the bottle but that's not the point, is it?!

First world problems?

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

@ MSB - Again, Fair enough lol.

I didn't know that creationism has only been popular in recent years. I get what you mean by "so that they can maintain their feelings of persecution despite living in a nation that is overwhelmingly Christian and free" though. Makes sense - be hated/mocked & then you have something to struggle against, a way to get people deeper & deeper into religion & what their mad cult/church (i mean that in the case of creationists, not trying to have a go at all churches) is teaching. American Christian nutters are the worst, they do act like they are the oppressed minority when clearly they are the oppressing majority. Similar to what some comedian I saw recently (can't remember who, maybe Frankie Boyle?) was saying about White Supremacists - "You're fighting to have a world where the white man reigns supreme? YOU ALREADY LIVE IN THAT WORLD YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!"

I'd read a similar theory re Noah's Ark. Basically, some wee farmer dude built a boat & saved his animals when his farm flooded. The story was passed on throughout the generations as a way to teach some sort of lesson (always be prepared? Haha, I actually don't know what the lesson is!) but, as with all re-telling of stories, it eventually changed from Noah saving 25 sheep to Noah saving 1000 sheep, to Noah saving all the sheep, to Noah saving all the animals in the world.

Reading about it seems I was slightly wrong. America has always had a bit of a problem with teaching evolution, I don't know why. They have been teaching creationism in school as fact since the 1920s for some reason. People only seem to have started to get pissed about it recently though. I think when Darwin's theory 'came out' people were more pissed off about him saying their grandma was a chimp than because it contravened the bible. Jews have generally placed little stock in the literal story itself, and have usually been more interested in the layers of meaning wrapped up in the allegorical story. Looking about it seems as though as many as 10% of people in this country believe in creationism, which shocks me. I must be in church surrounded by people who hold these sentiments, but don't speak them. That, or many of those people are Muslims - given that around only 10% of the Muslim population world wide accepts evolution. As a country though, every time we spend a tenner we see Darwins face, so I don't think we have it that bad :D

I think creationism, and 'Christian' issues have been hyped up to gain certain sections of politicians more traction among Christians. While they are focused on abortion law, which never changes, or whether gays can get married, they are totally blind to the fact their friends are dying of cancer because they can't afford to be treated in hospital. It seems to be just one big manipulation and abuse of Christianity.

 

[masaz]

First world problems?

Haha, absolutely :D It's been a looooong day and it's only 12.30pm, what can I say!

 

[parttime crackhead]

Reading about it seems I was slightly wrong. America has always had a bit of a problem with teaching evolution, I don't know why. They have been teaching creationism in school as fact since the 1920s for some reason. People only seem to have started to get pissed about it recently though. I think when Darwin's theory 'came out' people were more pissed off about him saying their grandma was a chimp than because it contravened the bible. Jews have generally placed little stock in the literal story itself, and have usually been more interested in the layers of meaning wrapped up in the allegorical story. Looking about it seems as though as many as 10% of people in this country believe in creationism, which shocks me. I must be in church surrounded by people who hold these sentiments, but don't speak them. That, or many of those people are Muslims - given that around only 10% of the Muslim population world wide accepts evolution. As a country though, every time we spend a tenner we see Darwins face, so I don't think we have it that bad :D

I think creationism, and 'Christian' issues have been hyped up to gain certain sections of politicians more traction among Christians. While they are focused on abortion law, which never changes, or whether gays can get married, they are totally blind to the fact their friends are dying of cancer because they can't afford to be treated in hospital. It seems to be just one big manipulation and abuse of Christianity.

10% of the Muslim population accepts evolution? I'm surprised that's so low. But what's the same figure for the worldwide Christian population? Even then, I think for a fair comparison you'd need a figure for worldwide 'hardcore-Christians' as I reckon there are many, many more people who say they are Christian while basically not really believing in, or even really knowing anything about, their religion than there are Muslims who know nothing about their faith. You'd also need to factor education into it as well, are there more Muslims from incredibly poor, uneducated backgrounds compared to Christians? (I don't know if there are or not). What percentage of well educated Muslims believe in evolution in comparison to well educated Christians? I can't see it being wildly different.

I definitely agree with you on that last point, particularly in America. I saw something the other day saying that in one state (again, can't remember exact details lol) they've just passed a bill, in relation to anti-abortion stuff, saying that pregnancy begins two weeks before conception

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

10% of the Muslim population accepts evolution? I'm surprised that's so low. But what's the same figure for the worldwide Christian population? Even then, I think for a fair comparison you'd need a figure for worldwide 'hardcore-Christians' as I reckon there are many, many more people who say they are Christian while basically not really believing in, or even really knowing anything about, their religion than there are Muslims who know nothing about their faith. You'd also need to factor education into it as well, are there more Muslims from incredibly poor, uneducated backgrounds compared to Christians? (I don't know if there are or not). What percentage of well educated Muslims believe in evolution in comparison to well educated Christians? I can't see it being wildly different.

I definitely agree with you on that last point, particularly in America. I saw something the other day saying that in one state (again, can't remember exact details lol) they've just passed a bill, in relation to anti-abortion stuff, saying that pregnancy begins two weeks before conception

Well there are as many Roman Catholics as there are Muslims in the world, and the Catholic church has issued statement after statement saying that they find evolution to be true. I think it is a rather Western phenomenon to say you are Christian and not really be Christian, I wouldn't say that Muslims are necessarily more pious for any other reason than the fact their religion demands it of them. I mean, Christianity does not dictate a strict dress code, it doesn't advocate calling your child Jesus, it doesn't dictate every tiny facet of your life right down to how to wipe your arse. So on a fundamental level it will always be the case that the average Muslim will seem far stricter than the average Christian. Either way, worldwide, I don't think there are that many people who identify as Christian who don't go to some length to adhere to their faith. Acceptance of evolution in 'moderate' Islamically dominated countries like Turkey runs at 22%, whereas in Saudi Arabia they aren't allowed to teach evolution any where.

This article goes into it a little bit:

http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/706