GHB synthesis question

[psychobabble]

I have heard of Red Devil Lye being used in the GHB syn process. Any other suggestions that can be purchased at local health food, grocery, or hardware stores in the US? What is the requirement for the grade of the hydroxide -- does it have to be completely pure??

 

[Roches]

it doesn't have to be *pure*, as in 99.9% ACS grade sodium hydroxide. technical grade should be fine.
but NOT red devil lye! it contains traces of heavy metal impurities, and is highly dangerous for human consumption. you might as well use drano.
you *must* use either sodium or potassium hydroxide in pure form. it comes in large pellets which you should *always* dissolve in water before using. this is a highly exothermic reaction, so let the water cool afterwards. weighing the pellets is a wild approximation because they suck huge amounts of water out of the air (they're highly hygroscopic), if you need to know exactly how much you have, you have to measure how much of an acid of known concentration you need to neutralize it (a titration). but you might already know that though, it's high school. it's possible to buy pre-mixed solutions of known concentration, but it costs more and may be more difficult to obtain.
you should have no trouble getting it. some suppliers are even having sales on KOH.. which kind of disturbs me because i think it's because they overstocked on it while you could still get G kits easily, and now they're trying to sell off the rest...

 

[dpp]

you could also put the KOH in a test tube or whatnot and heat it, and make it anhydrous. Well, i've never done that with KOH, but it worked with copper nitrate (and after we evaporated all the water my chem teacher put the anhydrous copper nitrate in my hand and put water on it.. i was like "oooooo wow it turned blue" [hydrous copper nitrate is blue, anhydrous is white] and then steam started to come off of my and and i gave this odd look and then threw the crap in the sink cause it started burning my hand [the energy that it took to take the water OUT was comming "back in" as the Copper Nitrate re-absorbed the water, hence, it was like i was butting a flame to my hand. that dirty bastard always liked to mess with me in class... ). sorry about that little story there. so anyway, my guess is that it should work w/ thre KOH also if you want to weigh it out.
but if you want some NaOH... a little secret to finding chemicals, photo chemical supplies. just do some research what the chemical is used for in photo, and say you ran out. try to find a mail-order place tho so you don't have to look all photo-nerdy and stuff.

 

[Exx_head]

Look up soap suppliers on the web. They sell sodium hydroxide. It is not suspicious, watched, etc.
Roches: What are you talking about? You do not premix the hydroxide with the water before adding the lactone. The exotherm drives the reaction to the right. I have yet to see a synthesis that describes adding the water first. The sodium hydroxide weighing is not "a wild approximation". I don't know where you went to school, but you shouldn't spread such misinformation.
Read at Erowid and The Lycaeum for synthesis instructions.
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"the pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple" Oscar Wilde
[This message has been edited by Exx_head (edited 08 June 2001).]

 

[PhreeX]

Red Devil Lye works fine - yes, it has a small percent of metal impurities but it's not enough to have any effect on the rxn, nor is it enough to cause the user any harm.. like Roches says, it's *best* to find either lab grade or acs, but if you're in a pinch just use lye..
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PAK CHOOIE UNF! Do not trust the pusher robot, he is malfunctioning, we are here to protect you..

 

[outkast]

Red devil lye is PERFECTLY safe! I've used it for years now, no problem. i've also used lab grade NAOH as well, and lye is exactly the same. not enough impurities in the lye to cause a problem.
peace, outkast

 

[dingleberries]

I am a bad little bluelighter who knows better and who should be spaked until my bum is read like a cherry! Ignore me please!
[This message has been edited by PhreeX (edited 11 June 2001).]

 

[Roches]

okay, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off.
fuck it, i've deleted three posts and i dont feel like defending myself.
i am right.
deal with it.
no references.
i don't care how many times you've done this
or what you think you understand about the reaction. weighing sodium hydroxide is not accurate, especially when you need an equimolar ratio and a neutral product, and the heat generated by dissolving it in water represents an uncontrollable and potentially dangerous input of heat. the reaction is driven by an outside heat source.

 

[outkast]

as for premixing the NAOH with water, the first time i made it i tried doing that. it did not work at all. i don't see how it would work, because it seems the NAOH reacts with the water instead of reacting with all three ingrediants at once. once you add the NAOH to water it dissolves and heats it up, seems like this would fuck up it's reaction with GBL. I suppose it could work, but it is absolutely unecessary. the reaction is not driven by an outside heat source-i'm assuming you mean an oven. have you ever made it any other way, such as the way erowid or lycaeum describes. if you make it that way, than you would realize it's not a coincidence that the reaction the three have when combined cause it to literally boil itself with no outside source.
and i wouldn't say it is a wild approximation to weigh the NAOH, true it can suck moisture from the air, but unless you leave it sitting in open air it doesn't do it.
do you knowanything about red devil lye, it certainly isn't anything close to drano.
and yes, i believe years of experience and consumption make me qualified enough to comment on this. and if you don't believe me, check out some legit websites. they all have the same instructions. coincidence?
peace, outkast