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GBL vs GHB in vivo trial

frqntflyr

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Messages
228
Location
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Right...after recently obtaining a quantity of internet-grade GBL and converting some to the Na salt of GHB with NaOH, both chemicals were LAB (large animal bioassay) tested for comparative in vivo effects. The lab rat is extensively versed in the dynamics of many psychopharmacological compounds, but had very limited apriori experience with these particular agents.
GBL was trialed first, on different occasions, per os on an empty stomach in doses ranging from 0.75 to 3.0 ml dissolved in 50 ml grapefruit juice. The taste was described as horrible, if plastic had a burnt ass, this is what it would taste like.
At all doses, the onset was felt within 15 minutes, first evidenced by a slight queasy sensation followed by a certain dose-dependant decrease in motor coordination, and at doses over 1 ml, significant relaxation of muscle tone. This was followed by slight “euphoria” – but nothing to the extent the rat was expecting, having perused the available information.
Nausea was felt at all doses over 1.5 ml, within 30 minutes, significant nausea and vomiting at 3.0 ml and in general, the intoxication, lasting approximately 2.5 hours, felt very chemical in nature and definitely not clear-headed. The smell of the solvent remained in the mouth and came out through sweat for up to 3 hours following ingestion.
At 3.0 ml, the rat, wide awake on ingestion, felt like his mind was being forcibly taken from the awake mode and propelled into a dream-like state while still awake – but nothing like the waking dreamstates of LSD, the transition extremely rough, unwanted and unpsychedelic, with feelings of panic and some degree of psychological paralysis accompanied by vomiting, which abated within 30 minutes.
Within an hour after ingestion, the lab rat felt and was described by his girlfriend as being physically “glassy,” no empathogenic, inhibition-reducing, nor for that matter any prosexual effects were evidenced (to the dismay of the girlfriend).
The “buzz” was rather similar to a specific alcohol high – picture drinking a glass of sangria on an empty stomach on a hot sunny day – but the chemical taste and smell contributed to feeling rather more toxified. The following sleep was very deep but not overly restful and the rat had black bags under its eyes the next morning, with none of the dopamine-rebound energy or clear-headedness described in literature. At no point did the rat want any additional booster doses.
Somewhat disappointed with the above results, GHB was tried, at a later date, as per above methodology. The concentration was 1g GHB per 5ml of solution, initial trial was 10 ml. The taste, while nothing to write home about, was a significant improvement over the GBL. The onset was slower, first felt after 25 minutes, more gradual and for some reason felt much more natural.
First, significant relaxation, dissolution of underlying tension the rat was not even aware of, slight euphoria – greater than with GBL at any dose – but still felt more like alcohol than anything else, and seemingly, humour-type linguistic associations were facilitated, but perhaps only in the rat’s mind. Definitely prosexual when the rat started thinking of such matters.
At T+2, all positive effects were diminished, leaving behind a slight tiredness, so a 10 ml booster was ingested, presenting pretty much the same clinical picture, with no nausea in evidence and normal sleep with no hangover effects after 2 more hours.
Encouraged, several days later, the rat was subjected to GHB over the course of 8 hours, taking initially 15 ml, followed by 4 booster doses of 10 ml every 2 hours. The outcome of this experiment was altogether different – while the first few hours were dreamy, relaxed and euphoric as the day progressed the rat started becoming agitated – contrary to his expectations of catching a nice mid-day nap, he became more and more restless and ill at ease, a factor he attributed to the dopamine rebound.
At T+10, the rat felt like he wasn’t in his own skin, could the rat have overdosed? Rather freaked out at this point, he was experiencing some pains in the kidney region – could this be due to processing the apparently large amount of salt ingested? Had anyone else had kidney pains?
At this point, the rat was feeling rather disassociated, so inhalation of copious amounts of cannabinoid pyrolysis products and ingestion of 1.0 mg of alprazolam were prescribed, some minutes following which, a sense of “normalcy” returned and the rat was able to sleep.
So, the rat’s personal conclusions:
1.GHB significantly better than GBL on all counts
2. neither compound of much use for sleep or REM sleep induction
3. both still feel a lot like alcohol, albeit with less of a hangover
4. honestly, both proved less fun than an anticipated
5. still trying to think how these could be used for sports performance enhancement
Would be very interested to hear your comments and of your experience with these compounds. Cheers from the secret laboratory.
[This message has been edited by frqntflyr (edited 10 August 2001).]
 
I don't think you should do GBL by itself. GBL should be combined with sodium hydroxide to make GHB. I believe GBL it very toxic if you don’t combine it with the sodium. Also doing GHB all day will make your kidneys hurt from all the sodium intake. Moderation and proper dose is the key to a good GHB experience.
 
GHB - after 10 days eod is said to release your nature Growth Hormone. That is one way why it is beneficial to sports performance. Also people on AS tend to use it when they go out instead of other drugs or alcohol b/c they are 10x's worse for them and can throw them off of their cycle. Also for some people (though not for you) it does put them in a deep sleep that they feel an increase in energy the next day. Guess its not a drug for you.
Redlighter
 
There is lots of research on the net supporting the fact that GBL is no more toxic than GHB. It should never be consumed in full concentration though because it is quite acidic and will actually eat through styrofoam cups! I have used both pure GBL and pharmaceutical GHB powder from the UK, and so have many of my "lab rat" friends, and we all concur, that while slightly different, the GBL high is every bit as good as GHB - and also without a doubt prosexual. 1,4 butanediol on the other hand has been shown to cause many unpleasant side effects and IMO should be avoided. A girl I once gave some GBL to (1ml) described the feeling as "It's like when your roll is coming down, but you still feel really happy and relaxed. Much better than alcohol in every way."
 
I was firmly convinced of GBL, NaGHB and 1,4 BDO having the same "high"...having tried them all in the past...that is, until I got hold of a steady reliable source of NaGHB...
when I finished my NaGHB stash, I tried 1,4 BD and got pretty much the same "high" but a crappy 2-3 hour hangover afterwards, then a few days later I tried GBL again, and got a lethargic high off it...nice, but not really euphoric or energetic...
all in all, I believe NaGHB is wayyyyyyy better than any of its liquid analogs...the high feels more clean, more energetic and there's no hangover after the high is gone. Sleeping with the aid of NaGHB is great...you'll only need 4 hours of G sleep to be fresh&ready...plus, it's gentler on the body...
 
GBL sucks, i have yet to figure out why people would use it when it can so fucking easily be converted to GHB.
It's hard on the stomach, not as good of a high, not really proven to be non-toxic, can make you feel sick a lot easier, and tastes like absolute shit.
peace, outkast
 
i take gbl on average 2-3x a week. the reason i don't take ghb is because a) its a lot more expensive than gbl (going by the limited sources i have for them) and b) i've heard that it contains a heck of a lot of salt, which is no good for you.
 
a lot more expensive? if you have pure GBL, than you should convert it to GHB yourself, it is so fucking easy. the other main ingredient, NAOH, is not expensive at all.
....you're drinking GBL and you're worried about a little bit of salt being bad for you????
peace, outkast
 
Look, you have GBL - go get yerself a bottle of Red Devil Lye ($3.74) and make GHB... no reason to be drinking these reangents when the synth is LITERALLY mixing chemicals, it's not like you need some flash chromatograph setup here...
------------------
# unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
 
red bull is the drink not red devil
red devil is industrial lye which is low grade NaOH...don't use it...low grade NaOH may contain a number of toxic chemicals such as heavy metals. it's worth your health to either get food grade NaOH or to stick with GBL.
 
red devil lye is a drain cleaner which can be bought at any food lion and probably most grocery stores. it says it is 100%lye and lye is NAOH. it is probably has a very small amount of impurities because it isn't lab grade, but not enough to worry about. i've used it for years to conver my GBL into GHB, simple and cheap.
peace, outkast
 
outkast, do not be fooled...When it says contains 100% lye it does not mean it contains 100% pure NaOH. Most lye is only 97% pure NaOH. Research grade (which is more pure than lye) is 98%. Furthermore, the low grade NaOH can include heavy metals...and heavy metals accumulate in your system, they are not excreted. You may feel fine now, you won't be able to tell you're ingesting them....but if you take it regularly it'll build up. Your health is your own business....but better believe I wouldn't put that crap in my system...not if I have a choice about it.
 
ok...now for the real story:
first, read this: http://www.ceri.com/ghbalt.htm
you might not realize this but gbl is basically a rolled up version of ghb, and the only subjective differences of the two are based upon how long it takes your body to turn the gbl into ghb...if you sipped a bottle with ghb and chugged a bottle of gbl, youd probably get very simmilar effects. Make sure that you ppl know even a slice of physiology b4 you make naive comments....i never make an effort to sound like a flamer or egotistical but it seems like there are many out there who read erowid all day and talk to their friends and think that those are the final word. Be objective
smile.gif

peace
 
thanks for the input good folks...but honestly, the rat don't care much for links (i've taught him how to use the search button), common chemistry tips, esteemed opinions of those who have tried neither compound, nor for that matter, scientific research data - as indicated, been there, read that...
what the rat would like to hear are more subjective, personal opinions from people who have tried both - their reasons for preferring one over the other, and also of any specific substance or dose-related issues such as kidney pains for example. btw, the rat got a major case of the runs the day after his runin with the GHB high dose trial, has this ever happened to anyone?
thanks again,
cage keeper
 
We have made this shit many times - Red Devil Lye works FINE! You simply need it for the reaction, it works fine, there is no need to order it online (even though it's dirt cheap and not watched!)
------------------
# unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
 
Phreex, of course lye works...it contains NaOH so of course the reaction will occur and you'll get your GHB. The problem is you'll get heavy metals along with your GHB. You can't taste them, you can't feel them, and it you won't see the damage until long after ingestion.
It's similar to huffing engine starter fluid for an ether high (which has a number of unhealthy additives in addition to ether)...if you care at all for your health then you'll put the effort in to make sure you're using a reasonably pure substance.
 
blunt, trust me i've looked into it. red devil lye is as pure as it comes, i believe 98%+ to be exact. i understand the worries on health, but it is perfectly safe. i have used lab grade as well and it actually felt more dirty-i know this is hard to gauge but it did.
if however you do have a problem with it, go ahead and order lab grade. it's still not very expensive.
peace, outkast
 
outkast, sorry, but not only do I not trust you but I know for a fact that you are dead wrong. Red devil lye is not as pure as lab grade NaOH and I don't even recommend lab grade NaOH...you want either Food Grade or ACS grade. Lab grade (reagent grade) is dirtier.
[This message has been edited by bunt cake (edited 14 August 2001).]
 
Bunt cake is right. I have reviewed several noteworth recipies and have my own book on GHB and all state cleary NOT to use lye. Bunt is right about the reagent grade NaOH too. Beleive me, you don't want to take a chance on injesting heavy metals.
 
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