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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

GBL MEGATHREAD 6: The Germans didn't make Dan's

Controlled drinking is a reasonably common approach in the treatment of chronic alcoholics who's livers can still take it. I have seen one example of it working.

I don't think it's ever been suggested in opiate addiction though as it just doesn't work. Even after spending years 'chipping' in between episodes of physical dependence I have always eventually had a full blown relapse.
 
I can't give a scientifically verified answer either but, IME gabbaergics do have a similar kindling effect to opioids. I used to be able to drink pretty heavily or take benzos daily for weeks at a time and stop with very little issue. However, after tapering off benzos following a pretty bad dependency, I would get the same thing you're describing after drinking a fair amount - feeling incredibly tense for at least the next 24 hours. I also had definite rebound symptoms from a comparatively small amount (compared to a year ago, with heavy tolerance albeit) of diazepam within the last week, and since then even an amount of alcohol equalling something like 2 beers and a glass of wine over 5 or 6 hours is enough to make me feel dehydrated, mildly anxious, and fuck with my ability to sleep.

I suppose this could also just be the effect of getting older, but I'm pretty sure I remember through foggy benzo memory of reading about a similar kindling effect with gabbaergics as there is with opioids - and yep it seems it matters not if you're using GABBA-A or B tickling substances.

That said, this will probably heal with time. I've never used GHB, but I'd imagine a heavy GHB addiction with binge drinking in conjunction would be enough to rough the receptors up for a while, probably best to avoid at least regular heavy drinking for now if you want the situation to improve.
 
steewith2ees said:
Controlled drinking is a reasonably common approach in the treatment of chronic alcoholics who's livers can still take it. I have seen one example of it working.

I don't think it's ever been suggested in opiate addiction though as it just doesn't work. Even after spending years 'chipping' in between episodes of physical dependence I have always eventually had a full blown relapse.
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Yeah it definitely seems the kindling effect is much more severe with opioids.... I found during my recent stint of diazepam that, while I mostly used lower doses, there were a couple of occasions where I would take up to 40mg with some drinks because I started to feel that familiar carefree euphoria that I grew attached to with high dose benzos. The fact that opiates are even more euphoric and recreationally appealing (imo anyway) means the psychological urge to start chasing the high again is strong and therefore, risk of relapse is considerable.
 
Basically, I did GBL on and off for a while. At first it was just occasionally, then every night, then it became from morning to night, but I would never redose in the middle of the night. It was always in spells though because I'd run out or throw the bottle away and then stop for a while. I never got shakes or hallucinations or anything but I'd feel a bit tense/anxious when I stopped. I don't think I ever really went through proper GBL withdrawal though. Additionally, I binge drank with friends at weekends, and occasionally at home too. Occasionally I'd take small doses of benzos for comedowns/hangovers, though my use was never frequent and always low dose.

Aside from once in a blue moon, I stopped drug use a few years ago though I continued to drink. I'd only drink at weekends and everything seemed OK. I'd maybe be a bit tense after drinking quite a lot in a weekend but I just put it down to a hangover. Then just over a year ago I had a heavy drinking binge over a few days and I woke up the next day with horrendous anxiety and tightness in my chest. I took a small dose of valium and that levelled things off. I was OK the next day.

Cut a long story short, after a short break I drank once or twice after that and felt quite tense so I just stopped for almost a year. However, some months later I started going through spells of feeling really quite tense again. I thought it was PAWS but the doctor thought it was just anxiety (perhaps caused by drinking/drugs but not withdrawal). After nearly a year off drinking and still feeling pretty tense at times, I started drinking again in lesser quantities and my anxiety issue seemed to actually get better. Then I had a couple of friends birthdays I attended and drank quite a bit more. Despite returning to drinking in lower quantities again the tension issue seemed to come back. Now I've had no alcohol in a month, and I've felt pretty good the past couple of weeks, only for this weird tension issue to come back again today. I went out for a run and then had a shower and this made me feel much better, as it always does.

So now I'm left not really sure what to think. Do I have an anxiety issue like the doctor says or am I suffering from alcohol withdrawals? I should also add that apart from after the drink binge when I had bad anxiety, my tension issues all seem to be physical rather than psychological. Like I can be sitting watching TV without a care in the world and then suddenly I start feeling shitty/edgy and get a tight neck etc.
 
Correct me if I got it wrong, but if you're saying you were experiencing the symptoms to some extent even during a year off drinking then I'd say it's almost definitely anxiety. Obviously hangovers and withdrawal symptoms will make the anxiety worse, and in turn this will make this tense feeling you get after drinking seem more intense.

GABA withdrawals can last a long time, but I think you'd have to be using more consistently than you've described in order to still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms after a year off. Bad anxiety can definitely feel physical.
 
Long time heavy GBL and ghb user here. I can't use any amount of g without getting dt's anymore. However I can use benzos for extended periods and suffer no ill effects after. Same goes for booze.
 
Tree of Life said:
Basically, I did GBL on and off for a while. At first it was just occasionally, then every night, then it became from morning to night, but I would never redose in the middle of the night. It was always in spells though because I'd run out or throw the bottle away and then stop for a while. I never got shakes or hallucinations or anything but I'd feel a bit tense/anxious when I stopped. I don't think I ever really went through proper GBL withdrawal though. Additionally, I binge drank with friends at weekends, and occasionally at home too. Occasionally I'd take small doses of benzos for comedowns/hangovers, though my use was never frequent and always low dose.

Aside from once in a blue moon, I stopped drug use a few years ago though I continued to drink. I'd only drink at weekends and everything seemed OK. I'd maybe be a bit tense after drinking quite a lot in a weekend but I just put it down to a hangover. Then just over a year ago I had a heavy drinking binge over a few days and I woke up the next day with horrendous anxiety and tightness in my chest. I took a small dose of valium and that levelled things off. I was OK the next day.

Cut a long story short, after a short break I drank once or twice after that and felt quite tense so I just stopped for almost a year. However, some months later I started going through spells of feeling really quite tense again. I thought it was PAWS but the doctor thought it was just anxiety (perhaps caused by drinking/drugs but not withdrawal). After nearly a year off drinking and still feeling pretty tense at times, I started drinking again in lesser quantities and my anxiety issue seemed to actually get better. Then I had a couple of friends birthdays I attended and drank quite a bit more. Despite returning to drinking in lower quantities again the tension issue seemed to come back. Now I've had no alcohol in a month, and I've felt pretty good the past couple of weeks, only for this weird tension issue to come back again today. I went out for a run and then had a shower and this made me feel much better, as it always does.

So now I'm left not really sure what to think. Do I have an anxiety issue like the doctor says or am I suffering from alcohol withdrawals? I should also add that apart from after the drink binge when I had bad anxiety, my tension issues all seem to be physical rather than psychological. Like I can be sitting watching TV without a care in the world and then suddenly I start feeling shitty/edgy and get a tight neck etc.
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A hangover is withdrawal? If you go divvy on booze then of course you're going to suffer for a few days. What goes up must come crashing down, right?

Im not having a cheap dig but if, like myself, you can't handle hangovers then probably don't go daft on the booze.

Ime a g binge can be ridden out in a few days.... don't try ride it out if you have been at it for months though. Don't try and drink your way out of it; you're just making it worse
 
I think that I may have also discovered that I might have been getting G hangovers rather than w/ds for the first couple of days after use (lasting between 24-56 hours) i would feel awful; probably cos i hadn't eaten a thing during the whole session, probably due to a highly acidic stomach that would make me spew immediately without warning, plus no sleep for one or 2 nights, and up to 56 hours straight sitting at my computer chair listening to youtube or watching porn.:o

So far today, 2 days after last G use, i am feeling no w/ds and haven't had to reach for the baclofens or pregabalins (Yet, although it is still early days, and I didn't wake until 1pm 8(.)

I feel miraculously lucky as i was expecting a truly awful week. Now i will be able to carefully ration the tiny bit i have left, perhaps combine it with some psyches, and still have loads of the weening/comfort meds to see me through the 2 days of hangover or w/d. 8o
 
I ended up taking 1 x 300mg pregabalin only just before bed last night, to help potentiate the hypnotic effects of benzos; it certainly seemed to do that with my powders working far better than normal at lower doses, after a prolonged tolerance break from the powders. I got to sleep way earlier than normal about 01:30 am and woke up about 11:00 am which is a huge improvement. I'll have to keep shaving a little bit off the get up time every day. I'm craving Baclofen slightly now though but I must and will resist.

Originally I was thinking that it would cause the least disruption to my sleep if i reduced the 300mg Pregabalins by 50 mg a night, as i have possibly built up a tolerance by now. But then i realised how fucking expensive they are and also extremely useful for relieving the discomfort of the G hangover. By the time my G has gone all the comfort meds will probably have been used too. Now I'm going to reduce by 100mg a night over 3 nights which will only use 1 tablet and as I haven't been taking Pregabalin daily or consistently or heavily, and not for over a month, hopefully quitting will be a doddle.

That Baclofen craving passed whilst i was typing this, if only i hadn't thought of it again, as it's returned. 8( Oh well, seems easy enough to handle. With any luck I'll just need a lot of rehydration which I find often helps with many types of cravings. If Nicotine is a 10, this would be a 2. I won't be falling for a 2. ;)
 
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mydrugbuddy said:
Do you know what the active ingredient is in Nytol?

EDIT: according to wiki it's just Diphenhydramine, a potent first generation anti histamine
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Other sedative anti-histamines :-

Phenergan (promethazine hydrochloride) 25mg/50mg, also the active ingredient in Sominex but much cheaper if you ask for phenergan at the pharmacy counter. Makes me feel groggy next day though.

Kirkland Sleep Aid (doxylamine succinate) 25mg, inexpensive and available online.

Mods - I hope this isn't too much information.
 
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Thanks for the info Valkyrie; there seems to be loads of first generation anti-histamines (that all make you drowsy) available from various sources online.

Fucking GBL!!!! What can I say!? :! It shows you heaven for a few months and then takes it away. :\

I guess the timing is all just about perfect to be honest, another big bottle would probably ruin me physically, and only make matters even worse with my neighbors. I'm so going to miss the really long music sessions though, but definitely not the neighbor hassles. I may still order a sneaky 100ml every few months or something, but certainly not too often.

As my tiny remaining amount of GBL is already accounted for I'm not really craving it at all, but am quite strongly psychologically craving the gabba b meds like baclofen and pregabalin. It doesnt feel physical in any way; no tremor, headaches, nausea, heart function issues, or any other symptom that i can think of. Giving in to the cravings only seems to make them stronger the next day has been my experience so far since quitting GBL, so I'll see if i can make it through the rest of today with no more gabba bs, or if not, leave it as long as possible.:\

Well there goes another substance to cross off the potential 'Physical Dependency' list. ;) 2 down, 2 to go. Opis/Kratom and GBL quit, benzos and stims to go.

It's entirely psychological with stims, i guess i could start by gradually reducing my doses, and not taking any dose any later than mid afternoon which will then definitely not be interfering with my sleep, as i fear is the case at present. :\

EDIT: No I lost my job Dan, gonna start looking again now that I've got my worst and most destructive habits sorted.
 
You probably already know this, but cutting the stims out will make tapering the benzos infinitely easier. Easier said than done, but stims will make you crave benzos more than usual, and that probably works vice versa to an extent too so you'd be better off not having any around while tapering.

Why not play about with some ket or something instead while tapering the benzos. Even if you're not the biggest dissociative fan, it would at least serve as a distraction from craving stims and if anything it'll make benzo withdrawal symptoms easier, as opposed to making you feel the need to take benzos a la stims.
 
I hate to say it MDB but thinking about ordering a sneaky 100ml every few months of a substance you have been addicted to is not exactly sounding like you are intending to give it up.

I wish you well but in my experience if you have had an addiction to something and then decide to do it every now and again it generally leads to full blown relapse. Just my 2 cents.
 
ive been playing the uppers vs downers 'game' for years. It certainly would make benzo reduction a hell of a lot more straightforward if i did not do stims. I'm working towards that.

One thing at a time, right?

@ Consumer, unfortunately you may well be right. It just gave me a ray of hope to cling on to for a few minutes thinking i may be able to indulge again in the future. As you have said that may well be a terrible idea, or alternatively, i could get away with it, with no issues.
 
mydrugbuddy said:
One thing at a time, right?
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Absolutely, but if you're concerned about whether you'll be able to stretch your benzo supply out over the taper you have planned then I'd reckon you'd be better off stopping the stims now and getting any crash from that over with, and then work at finding your stabilising dose with the benzos and reduce from there. Tbh I don't know a lot about daily stim use, but I can't imagine tapering is necessary or even particularly beneficial. You'd be as well getting it done before you start a new job while you have the chance. Do you have a load stockpiled or something?
 
No I dont have any large stash, just enough for the next few days.

As a matter of fact one of the few good remaining vendors that i now know of is currently on an extended vacation, so that's pretty much going to force the stims issue anyway. Unless I start boshing Modafinils by the handful. 8( (Only joking about the Modafinil.)

My benzo stock should certainly be sufficient if i quit stims asap, or otherwise, just try to keep remembering never to increase the dose, for any reason or any circumstance. This has been a whole lot easier to type than achieve in day to day life on countless occasions. But hopefully now that there are less other substances floating around it should make concentrating on and working on the benzo taper a lot easier.

Jesus; this is like the Universe seems to be falling into place at my convenience; and not the other way round as it often seems; that everything is falling apart. 8o
 
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How much puts you GBL folks into a nice (albeit temporary) sleep?

Have tried upwards 6-7ml in one go, it just makes my head spin and insomnia.
 
Ironically for a smack head, its the one drug (or at least GHB is) that I'm pretty frightened of. Ridiculous amounts of folk used to go over at the big showcase raves in the 90's and GHB (in a polydrug cockatoo) seemed to be involved 90% of the time. Never tried it, still cannot get my head how this gained popularity as a club drug. I always used to scratch my head at the ketheads at Sundissential and the like, post millennium but at least that makes a bit more sense - I can imagine it being good in low dose but there were tons of fucks literally holing out in the clubs. Might as well be shooting up and catching a nod - as good as they must have felt I'm damn sure they were not even aware of the music half the time.

Sorry for going OT, I warned that I would in another thread. Never tried GHB or GBL - no idea of relative doses and effects.
 
I've tried GHB and thought it was shite tbh. First drug I ever ordered online, when it was still legal, and only served to reinforce my opinion that legal highs were shit. Then mephedrone hit the scene and I ignored it. I'm such a twat... :(
 
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