Just another point to add. 55 years is a long time. The guy is only in his early 20s. That means that the court believes that he will not change in the next 40 years. Do you expect to be the same person in 40 years time you are now? TO hold the same beliefs? I dont. I'm not the same person I was 40 months ago.
Yes the crime is horrendous. But does this man really have no chance of rehabilitation?
IMO the best criminal system would be one that can most successfully rehabilitate the criminal.
Anfalicious - while a nice fantasy, I can't see your sentiments having any validity in reality. Your 40 months change most likely involved personal growth and perception change, not (I'm hoping anyways
) the loss of a desire to pack-rape, denigrate and violate women. I think there is a marked difference. Once that line is crossed (the line being to commit violent crimes - rape, cold-blooded murder, child molestation, etc), there is a long, convoluted and immensely difficult (if achievable at all) path to rehabilitation, which IMHO is a big waste of everyone's time. Who pays for such rehabilitation? If someone murders your little girls – like in the case of the English 10 year olds, do you want your money funding “fixing” a person like that? I’d rather see hospitals, schools and welfare improved. Also, how can you
really be sure someone has been rehabilitated? I can say I have no desire to molest 6 year old boys, but how can anyone know what thoughts and fantasies I act out in the dark recesses if my mind, how can you KNOW I won’t re-offend? You can’t, and managing the risk and weighing the alternatives, would you be impressed if your “rehabilitated” serial rapist’s next victim was you, your daughter, your mother, your
grandmother? Past examples of "rehabilitated" sex offenders have only seen them re-offend, half the time in more violent and depraved acts.
I'd like to think offenders can be rehabilitated, and for some offences rehabilitation does happen, eg serial thieves, drug dealers, etc. But once the taste for blood, rape or molestation has been whetted, I have grave doubts about the ability of the offenders to be rehabilitated. And getting back to my initial question - just by virtue of you having committed a crime, we now should divert resources and time to trying to change you with a view to letting you
back out amongst a society where you broke one of its most sacred rules and have severely violated, or worst, killed some of its members? IMHO locking up is fine, you have forgone your right to be rehabilitated the minute you commit the crime. While it’s not a very empathetic view for criminals, I’m sure empathy was the last thing they were thinking of as they violate their victims. Knowing people like that are off the street for a long time gives the VICTIMS (IMHO the important ones here) some closure, solace and goes some way of allowing them to sleep at night.
Shredda - While objectification of women is undoubtedly a part of the crime of rape, it's really drawing a weak link between a lewd joke that may be sexist or objectifying (and that’s to your PERSONAL sensibilities don't forget) and to the crime of rape. I may make an objectifying comment, or joke, or whatever, but when it comes to women I treat them like fucking princesses, never hurt them, never harass them, sensitive to feelings, etc. Matter of fact, for most modern men women dictate their lives - mother, sisters, girlfriends, female friends - and for the overwhelming majority they are treated well, princess-like even
. Making jokes is one thing, the crime of rape is a whole different kettle of fish. It's like trying to draw the link between video games and mass murder - yeah there is a link for some sick depraved fucks, but it’s the exception not the rule.
If you use the terminology you contribute to the evils of society. You may not be the person that commits the crime, but you are an accessory before the fact.
You make some funny jokes. An accessory before the fact? That’s a classic. I suppose by being born male that somehow makes me a party to all rapes too? Using the terminology? Come on read what you type. That's akin to "if your German, you are a nazi, or support Hitler".
I can only speak for myself but I certainly dont want to contribute, even in a microcosmic way, to the unimaginable ordeal that those women went through, and that will affect them for the rest of their lives.
Neither do any of us on this board, but by your reasoning and logic, my jokes and my gender have already contributed in a “microcosmic” way. It would have been nice to have been born female and free my conscience of guilt and shame, but alas the Y chromosome. Seriously though, if you don't want to detract from what they went through, you would see the problem lies within the certain sub-group of people, not 50% of the population or in jokes, etc.
Rayda -
You can do a lot more to stop this type of crime happening by having empathy and respecting the women you meet in your life, even if other men do not. - what a load of bollocks. My empathy and respect prevents rape? How? Because rapists will take note of this? Because this somehow gives women a protective shield against attack? The circumstances don't lead to a condemnation of all men, only a select few - a large proportion of men respect women and have empathy for their problems - I think that has been well emphasised everywhere, even in this thread, but that isn't going to go anywhere near stopping rape. Also, it’s not like men are doing nothing to prevent rape, or condoning it – so what is the “lot more” men could be doing?
But unfortunately it continues to happen all around us everyday in some form or other So obviously some of us are contributing.
So does murder, drug dealing, paedophilia, necrophilia, ritualistic sacrifice –
obviously someone somewhere is contributing, must be those damn males again, they were born truly evil. The above reasoning is the thing people take issue with.. there is no “truth” in the rhetoric spouted above – you’ll find the same amount of truth in comments like “she asked for it by going with them, and by the way she was dressed”. Both comments are offensive to your intelligence and disrespectful.
We all need to take collective responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen, and that means male AND female!
"Collective responsibility" - I'm curious to know what sort of things come under this banner, and how they can prevent rape. Also, how women and males (like myself in perspective and behaviour) have some responsibility (which we’ve been ignoring up until now) to prevent rape? Sure, the female in these circumstances went along with her attackers in a very naive and irresponsible way, but how can women as a sex have some form of responsibility to make sure rape doesn't happen? My understanding of the crime was that rape is NEVER provoked... hence where does the responsibility fall? There hasn’t been some massive silent condoning of the crime, and that statement seems a bit utopian and far-fetched to have any real meaning.. or am I missing something?
Kudos to Jakoz post 2 for points raised {EDIT} - though, seriously the checking of IPs - is it really necessary?? That seems to cross the line to making it personal... ? {/EDIT}
[ 25 August 2002: Message edited by: SupaspeeD ]
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
