Heroin From OC80s to BTH

[Orangelighter]

Well, as the cliché goes, "long time lurker, first time poster"... Seriously though – I've been a reader of BL for at least a decade, and I can't tell you how helpful, informative, and supportive this forum has been to me over recent years. So, before anything else: major kudos to YOU, Bluelight, for being a truly special place.

You've helped me with a range of things, from teenage joint-rolling skills, to harm reduction best practices, to titrating Suboxone and minimizing WDs, and more. Thank you.

I'm writing in today with a question/experience. Mods, please feel free to move this to Intros, if more appropriate.

This year I’ve developed a moderate dependence on opiates. (I’m not sure what qualifies as “mild” or “heavy” addiction, but my usage is around 1000mg oxycodone daily for the past few months, with W/Ds starting to kick in when I get below ~500mg for more than a day or two).

Anyway, last week, I was running low and my go-to sources were all out of stock. Resupply was looking unlikely, and you can’t trust the street supply where I live (or anywhere, these days, I guess) not to contain fent/xylazine/etc.

So I purchased a gram of BTH, my first ever, from a reputable source, and this week tried heroin for my first time.

No IV for me. I tried chasing the dragon, heating it in a glass “essential oil” pipe, and crushing the (rather dry) tar into a powdery line to snort.

All reports of this vendor’s goods describe it as potent. And I know that my regular supply of oxycodone is pharmacy-direct, no fent or anything that would skyrocket my tolerance.

But I barely felt the heroin. Granted, it took a little practice to chase the dragon correctly (running it on the foil, not burning the dope, catching all the smoke, etc.), but I got it down after the first 2-3 points.

It was enough to (mostly) hold off withdrawals for the day, until I could acquire more oxycodone (I got very lucky with the timing on that resupply). But even so, I was exhausted, hot/cold, and lacking appetite — all things I know well as early withdrawal.

I trust other buyers’ feedback that the BTH was in fact good quality. I’m pretty sure the issue was in my end: either my technique was still wrong (don’t think so) or my tolerance is much higher than I realized… Once the OC-80s arrived, I popped two and snorted one, and felt better within minutes. But I had consumed almost a gram of heroin, in under 24 hours, with little effect.

So why, after all these years, am I just now creating an account on Bluelight?

A few reasons, I guess.

First, I’m wondering whether others have experienced anything like this. (Please assume that the issue was not the quality of the dope, as the mechanism I’m referring to for quality evaluation and buyer feedback is quite dependable).

Also, I’ve been spending more time here lately and feel there are opportunities for me to contribute.

Finally, I guess I’m a bit concerned by my level of dependence, and would like to plug into this support network more closely.

Thanks in advance for any replies — will circle back tomorrow/this weekend to chat.


EDIT: 1000mg oxycodone is my estimated daily consumption, not my individual dose. I'm sure someone with a full-blown fentanyl tolerance could swallow a gram of oxycodone and be fine, but my current dosage is two or three OC-80s, or two MS-Contin 200s.

 

[daturetard]

By no means am i experienced in using heroin, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but in terms of potency at the receptor, while oxycodone is technically lower than that of diacetylmorphine (which I believe is actually the same strength as an agonist as morphine, but crosses the blood brain barrier much more rapidly, then breaking down into morphine and 6mam, as well as ~30% of morphine [and not h] binding to plasma proteins, which isn't an issue once the drug crosses the BBB and is broken down into morphine) you're utilizing much more of it.
https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB01452
However, oxycodone is fully bioavailable unlike heroin and morphine. So you're utilizing 40% more of your opioid intake with oxycodone versus diamorphine. Also there are large differences in the subjective experience that may make you prefer the oxy. Much more sedative effect from morphine, more histamine release, and so, more itching. Anyways hope this helped.

 

[Cult315]

Well, as the cliché goes, "long time lurker, first time poster"... Seriously though – I've been a reader of BL for at least a decade, and I can't tell you how helpful, informative, and supportive this forum has been to me over recent years. So, before anything else: major kudos to YOU, BlueLight, for being a truly special place.

You've helped me with a range of things, from teenage joint-rolling skills, to harm reduction best practices, to titrating Suboxone and minimizing WDs, and more. Thank you.

I'm writing in today with a question/experience. Mods, please feel free to move this to Intros, if more appropriate.

This year I’ve developed a moderate dependence on opiates. (I’m not sure what qualifies as “mild” or “heavy” addiction, but my usage is around 1000mg oxycodone daily for the past few months, with W/Ds starting to kick in when I get below ~500mg for more than a day or two).

Anyway, last week, I was running low and my go-to sources were all out of stock. Resupply was looking unlikely, and you can’t trust the street supply where I live (or anywhere, these days, I guess) not to contain fent/xylazine/etc.

So I purchased a gram of BTH, my first ever, from a reputable source, and this week tried heroin for my first time.

No IV for me. I tried chasing the dragon, heating it in a glass “essential oil” pipe, and crushing the (rather dry) tar into a powdery line to snort.

All reports of this vendor’s goods describe it as potent. And I know that my regular supply of oxycodone is pharmacy-direct, no fent or anything that would skyrocket my tolerance.

But I barely felt the heroin. Granted, it took a little practice to chase the dragon correctly (running it on the foil, not burning the dope, catching all the smoke, etc.), but I got it down after the first 2-3 points.

It was enough to (mostly) hold off withdrawals for the day, until I could acquire more oxycodone (I got very lucky with the timing on that resupply). But even so, I was exhausted, hot/cold, and lacking appetite — all things I know well as early withdrawal.

I trust other buyers’ feedback that the BTH was in fact good quality. I’m pretty sure the issue was in my end: either my technique was still wrong (don’t think so) or my tolerance is much higher than I realized… Once the OC-80s arrived, I popped two and snorted one, and felt better within minutes. But I had consumed almost a gram of heroin, in under 24 hours, with little effect.

So why, after all these years, am I just now creating an account on Bluelight?

A few reasons, I guess.

First, I’m wondering whether others have experienced anything like this. (Please assume that the issue was not the quality of the dope, as the mechanism I’m referring to for quality evaluation and buyer feedback is quite dependable).

Also, I’ve been spending more time here lately and feel there are opportunities for me to contribute.

Finally, I guess I’m a bit concerned by my level of dependence, and would like to plug into this support network more closely.

Thanks in advance for any replies — will circle back tomorrow/this weekend to chat.

First, I came into this thread thinking BTH was Butane Hash for some reason, was a bit confused all around for a minute once I read heroin.

Also, are you sure you’re on 1000mg of oxycodone? I know there are people out there with massive tolerances, but I’ve never heard of anybody working up from 0-1000mg oxy in a year. I don’t want to call bullshit but that just seems insane. Not saying you’re lying but excuse my skepticism, I started on oxy when I was 11 and while I may not have stayed on it full time I was on it for majority of my life into my mid-ish 20s and I never got anywhere close to 1000mg. Tramadol I was well over, but Oxy I don’t think I even hit 500.

Also tolerance and dependence go hand in hand, so for you to say you don’t hit withdrawal until you’re at less than half of your dose and not for a day or too is pretty far out of the park, too. I’ve never had a habit that ended with over 2 zeros that didn’t result in immediate WD symptoms when I didn’t have as close to my full dose as possible.

1000mg of oxycodone isn’t a “moderate” or even heavy dose - it’s practically unheard of. Almost every person on earth besides the hardest of junkies would be dead 3x over from that, and they didn’t get that way within a year.

Anyway, while I’ve never done tar(East Coast powder only) it’s typically known to be of poor quality. I wouldn’t imagine a gram would stretch far for somebody with a large oxy dose. It definitely would go absolutely nowhere for somebody with a 1000mg/day habit.

 

[Orangelighter]

Hey Dature, thanks for the detailed reply. Good points.
Hey Cult, sorry if I was unclear (I'll add an edit note to my OP). Thanks for replying

My individual dose of oxy is not 1000mg (a gram lol), that's my estimated daily consumption. I'm currently taking between ten and fifteen OC-80s daily (i.e. 800 to 1200mg), usually two or three 80mg pills at a time. When that's unavailable, I substitute MS Contin 200mg (slow release morphine) and can usually "ration" at 6-8 of those a day without w/d but without ever really feeling more than a mild buzz.

That's why I figured, a gram of heroin (at an estimated 3x the potency of oxycodone) should last three days and keep me pretty high the entire time. Instead I went through the whole thing in less than 24 hours, swallowed my last two K9 blues, and still got the early signs of withdrawal before my resupply of oxycodone arrived.

As for withdrawal, you might be right about timing. When I start running low (like planning out 2-3 days ahead) I'm on the "reorder button" so to speak, but even that isn't necessarily reliable, and I've had instances of going 2-3 days without (or with the smallest possible dosage at a time to try not to run out) a couple times, in recent months. I've tried kratom (helps a little, especially to "stretch" the time between doses), buprenorphine (sorta helps, if I don't time it wrong and cause precipitated withdrawals, but always seems to jack my tolerance up by the time I'm able to get more oxy), and I've even tried white-knuckle going through the withdrawals once (which, evidently, didn't work). Point being, though, that if I cut back from a "stay high" dosage to a "minimum maintenance" dose, I still find myself getting w/d symptoms in a day or two, so I try really hard to stretch the supply when I start running low and try to restock quickly.

Tbh, I appreciate your skepticism (even if it was the result of a miscommunication on my end). It's shining more of a light on the tolerance issue that I've been thinking about (i.e. concerned about) lately. Opiates are strange, in terms of tolerance, safety, dependence, etc., and what "normal" is. Doctors recommend keeping Narcan on-hand if your daily dose of morphine-equivalent is over like 200mg, or something like that, which is less than the amount I take to start the day...

Side note, I have a family friend who was prescribed opiates for a surgery that went wrong, resulting in chronic pain. At the time, he told me that the per-dose strength of fentanyl he was taking would have killed me, as an opiate-naive individual. (Obviously I was not about to test that statement). Anyway, it's kind of scary how it can build like that. But yeah, I'm not exaggerating or trying to sound like something I'm not, nor am I confused about my dosage. Been using daily for the past year or so, but I've dabbled with opiates (and, well, most other drugs) for the past 15-20 years and know what I'm taking.

Anyway, appreciate you all and your input. Glad to officially be here on BL, finally.

EDIT: It's also a bit therapeutic to write this all down, to be honest. Haven't really spoken to anyone about this, especially not about the level of consumption, and I haven't spent a ton of time in self-reflection around it yet, either. Feels good to open up a bit somewhere.

 

[Halif2]

Hey Orangelighter. Welcome to Bluelight.

It's great that you've got lots of good information from this site over your years as a lurker. It's also good that you've decided to participate, as you probably have lots of valuable experience and wisdom of your own to contribute. Aside from the useful info you can get here, it can be a good place just to communicate with others who can understand and empathise with you in a way that people in your daily life perhaps can't.

I think Daturetard and Cult have already said what I was going to say, but I just wanted to reiterate that a gram of real (i.e. pure pharma sourced) oxycodone is a fucking massive amount to be taking daily. Thinking about what I've paid in the past for oxy, it blows my mind that you'd be able to maintain a habit of that size.

This year I’ve developed a moderate dependence on opiates

Moderate? Bit of an understatement there

Regarding your BTH experience: The only way to get the full 'value' of heroin is to shoot it, unfortunately. And that is something I would never advise anyone to do.

Finally, I guess I’m a bit concerned by my level of dependence

You have good reason to be concerned, honestly. Yours is an impractical tolerance and it would be better to think about how to lower your use so you can get to a level that is more 'workable'. Currently, if you were to go the buprenorphine or methadone route, you would almost certainly need a large amount of that to stabilise. Not sure how it is in your part of the world, but it could potentially be hard to find a prescribing doctor who is comfortable in putting you on huge doses of opioid maintenance.

I don't want to freak you out, but that is a very large daily dose and I think you are right to be concerned about it. Think about slowly lowering the daily amounts in order to put yourself in a safer position in case you are suddenly cut off or in a circumstance where you can't get anything for a while.

Please be safe and keep us posted.

 

[Survival0200]

Also, are you sure you’re on 1000mg of oxycodone?

Sometimes in pain management such high doses are used. Especially with cancer where the pain can gradually get worse.

 

[dieselbaby]

Welcome to Bluelight.

First, I'll echo what some others have said: 1000mg or Oxycodone daily is definitely by no means a moderate habit. You're in quite deep, my friend. To respond to what someone was saying, while it's not common, it's very much possible to have a tolerance that high, if not even higher. I know that I have had a higher daily use than that myself, many years ago. When I first went to rehab a long ass time ago, at the time, I was doing at an absolute minimum every day 1000 mg of morphine (either 100 or 200mg MSContin pills), anywhere from 64-80+ mg of hydromorphone (8-10 x 8mg dilaudids), usually a handful of stamp bags of number 4 powder heroin -- anywhere from 3 or 4 up to a bundle (10). Then there were days I would throw in other stuff on top of all of that, like random OC80s, 1600mcg fentanyl "actiq" lollipops, the rare 10mg oxymorphones. I'm not saying this to brag, or try to sound cool -- because it isn't cool, it was actually totally hell. The main reason my habit got so out of control at the time, aside from my mental/emotional state, was that I had access to an abundance of relatively cheap MSContins and Dilaudids, from one of the best plugs I ever had. Such a thing will really make your tolerance go out of control...I don't think it's even possible to acquire such a large amount of pharma opioids like that nowadays without it costing you a small fortune, so OP, I feel for you and your bank account.

Now, that being said, there's a pretty easy explanation as to why your BTH experience was underwhelming, at best. For starters, your tolerance is quite high -- and your estimate of the gram of BTH being 3x as strong as the gram of oxy you are taking per day is not really a good way to be trying to calculate things. For example, that would be assuming (a bad assumption to make, indeed) that the BTH you were getting is 100% pure. Even the best no. 4 powder heroin (like the infamous "Double UO Globe Brand" shit from Southeast Asia, the real "China white" stuff of legend) is going to be 100% pure...it'll frequently test over 90%, but never 100%. I've done my share of BTH over the years, and used to have a connect for some incredible quality tar, which does exist, though is becoming increasingly rare. Good tar will knock your dick in the dirt, especially when IV'd, but it's rarely as pure as powder dope by it's very nature. I would say that the best tar around isn't going to be more than like 70% pure, maybe a little higher.

So you already have those things to take into account, then you have to also factor in your method of administration. Bioavailability and all that. Your choice of smoking the BTH is going to be at best about 60-70% bioavailability, and smoking tar is a bit of an acquired skill, so it's unlikely you're going to be able to be that efficient until you get the hang of it. Honestly, I would recommend staying away from BTH and finding yourself some good powder dope, if that's the route that you want to go. It's certainly available on the places it sounds like you're acquiring BTH from, and you can sniff it and it will definitely be more cost effective than your current oxy use. I would recommend getting your oxy tolerance down though before doing so, otherwise it's going to remain underwhelming just off tolerance alone. BTH is best for people who are going to be shooting it, and even then, if you have the ability to get powder dope when you aren't shooting, you should obviously do so.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Well, as the cliché goes, "long time lurker, first time poster"... Seriously though – I've been a reader of BL for at least a decade, and I can't tell you how helpful, informative, and supportive this forum has been to me over recent years. So, before anything else: major kudos to YOU, Bluelight, for being a truly special place.

You've helped me with a range of things, from teenage joint-rolling skills, to harm reduction best practices, to titrating Suboxone and minimizing WDs, and more. Thank you.

I'm writing in today with a question/experience. Mods, please feel free to move this to Intros, if more appropriate.

This year I’ve developed a moderate dependence on opiates. (I’m not sure what qualifies as “mild” or “heavy” addiction, but my usage is around 1000mg oxycodone daily for the past few months, with W/Ds starting to kick in when I get below ~500mg for more than a day or two).

Anyway, last week, I was running low and my go-to sources were all out of stock. Resupply was looking unlikely, and you can’t trust the street supply where I live (or anywhere, these days, I guess) not to contain fent/xylazine/etc.

So I purchased a gram of BTH, my first ever, from a reputable source, and this week tried heroin for my first time.

No IV for me. I tried chasing the dragon, heating it in a glass “essential oil” pipe, and crushing the (rather dry) tar into a powdery line to snort.

All reports of this vendor’s goods describe it as potent. And I know that my regular supply of oxycodone is pharmacy-direct, no fent or anything that would skyrocket my tolerance.

But I barely felt the heroin. Granted, it took a little practice to chase the dragon correctly (running it on the foil, not burning the dope, catching all the smoke, etc.), but I got it down after the first 2-3 points.

It was enough to (mostly) hold off withdrawals for the day, until I could acquire more oxycodone (I got very lucky with the timing on that resupply). But even so, I was exhausted, hot/cold, and lacking appetite — all things I know well as early withdrawal.

I trust other buyers’ feedback that the BTH was in fact good quality. I’m pretty sure the issue was in my end: either my technique was still wrong (don’t think so) or my tolerance is much higher than I realized… Once the OC-80s arrived, I popped two and snorted one, and felt better within minutes. But I had consumed almost a gram of heroin, in under 24 hours, with little effect.

So why, after all these years, am I just now creating an account on Bluelight?

A few reasons, I guess.

First, I’m wondering whether others have experienced anything like this. (Please assume that the issue was not the quality of the dope, as the mechanism I’m referring to for quality evaluation and buyer feedback is quite dependable).

Also, I’ve been spending more time here lately and feel there are opportunities for me to contribute.

Finally, I guess I’m a bit concerned by my level of dependence, and would like to plug into this support network more closely.

Thanks in advance for any replies — will circle back tomorrow/this weekend to chat.


EDIT: 1000mg oxycodone is my estimated daily consumption, not my individual dose. I'm sure someone with a full-blown fentanyl tolerance could swallow a gram of oxycodone and be fine, but my current dosage is two or three OC-80s, or two MS-Contin 200s.

The best way to use BTH is using a weed oil dab rig. It’s easily 2X stronger. I even find this stronger than IV for some reason.

And yea heroin isn’t going to really cut it if your oxy tolerance is 1000mg per day

You’re gonna be smoking grams or more per day of fire black tar to get the equivalent of 1000 mg oxy. You’re entering fentanyl tolerance there. But fent is extremely dangers and you have to take super small hits, like microscopic bits of you don’t want to die

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Sometimes in pain management such high doses are used. Especially with cancer where the pain can gradually get worse.

“Only” in cancer now days. which somehow gets a free pass over equally or more painful diseases.

Not even. My 90 yr old family friend in FL is only given tramadol and suicidal and disabled from the pain. He has brain cancer and already had a piece of his brain removed. Tramadol only. Not a bum. Homeowner on the beach with a 39ft boat

 

[JackARoe]

“Only” in cancer now days. which somehow gets a free pass over equally or more painful diseases.

I can say after talking with the doctor and nurse practitioner about my mothers metastasized cancer she gets fentanyl patches (sometimes 2 at a time), morphine every 4 hours and not PRN, but she can get morphine in between those 4 hours too if needed. They added lorazepam. But yeah thankfully she gets unlimited opiates but she is days away from death. In the beginning she got tramadol and acetaminophen, once I asked the doc what he would do if it was his mother they up the meds anytime I ask no problem. But yes, you have to speak up because everyone is so scared of opiates except when dying. But glad to see they will do whatever I ask without too much issue. I did ingratiate myself to all the nurses and social workers though. They know my mother is not going for the 60 day NA chip, she is on her way out of this life.

I find it odd my parents went through hell with my opiate addictions years ago, and now I am the main warrior of getting my mother those meds. I am glad I am using kratom. Keeps the cravings away. So I don't even think of the morphine.

BTH was sought out in the 1980's. I never knew it got a bad rep some years later unless the quality went down. i only got that in California. Brown powder too. In NY was the white powder that was quality heroin. I understand now everything can be cut with fentanyl.

But 1000 mgs of oxycodone a day? Man tolerance can climb! But I understand fentanyl itself will skyrocket a tolerance. What a crap deal. A substance that makes heroin useless when at one point it was a very strong opiate. Bad deal all around.

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

When you see equipotent conversion factors such as heroin being 2-3x morphine and oxycodone being 1.5x morphine, it's almost always measuring analgesia (and that's usually in lab animals). Just because heroin is about twice as strong as oxycodone as an analgesic does not mean it's twice as strong as a recreational drug or to fend off withdrawals.

You see this fairly commonly in the media nowadays when a new designer opioid pops up. Headlines such as "New horror drug 'carfentanyl' 100000x as potent as morphine" do get the point across, but it leads people into thinking that carfentanyl is 100000x as euphoric, analgesic or withdrawal preventing as morphine. Equipotent conversion factors cannot correctly convey 'potency' as an absolute because it they lack complexity and nuance.

That's assuming the heroin is pure, and black tar heroin (contrary to some old school beliefs) is usually very impure. A few sources I glanced at discussing the purity of seized black tar heroin samples from the 2000's claim 30 to 50%. This would mean BTH milligram for milligram is roughly as potent as oxycodone.

Here in Australia we get some of the highest purity heroin hydrochloride (the white powder from south east asia) in the western world and I don't think I'd mind if I had to switch to oxycodone. That's just an anecdote so take it or leave it.

My opinion on your circumstance? Avoid street heroin and stick to Pharmaceuticals. They are at the very least a little bit safer then street drugs.

 

[Cult315]

The best way to use BTH is using a weed oil dab rig. It’s easily 2X stronger. I even find this stronger than IV for some reason.

And yea heroin isn’t going to really cut it if your oxy tolerance is 1000mg per day

You’re gonna be smoking grams or more per day of fire black tar to get the equivalent of 1000 mg oxy. You’re entering fentanyl tolerance there. But fent is extremely dangers and you have to take super small hits, like microscopic bits of you don’t want to die

Fent would probably be a death sentence for that habit as it’s such a wild variable per bag. Unless he’s getting medically pure shit which I doubt considering the tar, but then again access to 1000mg of real oxy per day suggests a good connect(s) lol. I could look for months around here before finding one single hydro 5 most of the time, let alone an oxy. All the scripts got gobbled up to the highest bidders years ago while I was getting clean. And most the people I know that were getting them got ratted out and lost them by the same people they were selling to when they did sell to somebody else.

But yeah I wouldn’t recommend fent to my worst enemy, definitely not to somebody with such a large habit in (at least what I’d say is) a relatively short amount of time. Street dope has always been a gamble with your life but I’ve watched way too many friends die from this shit that always knew what they were doing. If there’s such a thing I’d say a lot of them were even perfect dope fiends, always careful as hell and took every measure to stay safe. Being safe just wasn’t safe enough. I lost one friend in the most catastrophic way I could think of and I can’t bring myself to explain that but I’ll say thank fuckin god his kids weren’t home. Anyway potency varies too widely bag to bag or dealer to dealer. Another friend died shooting out of the same bundle, same amount he’d been using for days off the same 2 buns. Hit a hotspot or dude packed the bun with different batches. Got narcan’d 3 times and still lost his life. Almost every time I’ve done the shit(it wasn’t many) I almost died myself or just passed out the entire time. Fuck fent

 

[Orangelighter]

Hey all… first, thanks for all the replies. I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful and engaged feedback.

I gotta say, I’m feeling more than a little freaked out this morning (not your fault, @Halif2 lol) as I’m reading comment after comment suggesting I’m probably in far worse of a place than I realized… it’s a little overwhelming.

I’ve always thought that “real” or “serious” addiction is where people are doing multiple grams of heroin daily, as by the “3x power of oxycodone” I took that to be equivalent to way more oxy than I’m currently doing.

But with everyone here — in a drug user/harm reduction forum (not random non-user friends) — saying that 1000mg is a huge amount, I’m feeling pretty overwhelmed. “But it’s only like a dozen oxy-80s” is what I was hearing in my head :/

The weird thing is, these drugs aren’t inaccessible if you know where to look… they’re just expensive as hell. I’m not comfortable trying IV so I guess the higher efficiency/bioavailability of BTH is a moot point; thankyou @dieselbaby for the perspective there, and for sharing your experience with all the pharma opiates. I’ve also had plenty of dilaudid but less reliable to get (and I don’t like it as much). Never tried oxymorphone but always wanted to.

@JackARoe you’re being such a good son, and being so kind and loving to your mom by insisting that her pain is managed properly. Not everyone would know to do that, and it sounds like you’re taking incredible care of her in this way. I’m sorry for what you’re currently going through; I know all too well how hard it can be


I want to reiterate how much I appreciate everyone chiming in. It’s a really good “first impression” (because even though I’ve lurked for years, it’s different to actually jump in and relate). Anyway, what I mean is that I’m grateful that it seems like I’ll be able to come back here while I work out my own stuff, and hopefully contribute some value to the community here in return.

It makes more sense to me now why the BTH was so underwhelming. I’m in a place now where I want to bring down my tolerance and cost (and consumption). Ideally I’m thinking of mapping out a long and gradual taper schedule. At 1000mg/day, a dose of around 200-240mg still gets me pretty high. I’m thinking if I can find a stable “minimum” level where I don’t get W/Ds but also not like nodding off on the couch, I can have the discipline at least to not take “25% more to get a great high, just today” which is kind of how I ended up where I’m at now.

I’ve also been (knock on wood) relatively able to keep a supply and with only a couple of brief but extremely uncomfortable exceptions, I’ve not had to experience running out for more than a day, in almost a year… So my old mental model of what it feels like to withdraw is probably very underprepared for what it would actually feel like at my current tolerance level…

Alright, I can see I’m starting to think out loud and ramble a little. This has given me a lot to think about, and a lot of emotion to process (and I will make a point to actually process them, not soothe it with drugs). I’ll check back in over the next few days, and maybe scope out the recovery support forums. It’s not that I want to stop using opiates (I like using them, in a way, and I kind of hate it in another way)… I just don’t want to need to… but at the moment there’s too much overlap.

Thanks, Bluelighters. You really showed up and lived up to your reputation. Grateful

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

Snip

I'm really curious as to how much money you're spending per day and how your addiction looks in general. Ive never heard anyone ever doing 10+ OC80's per day (thats $2000+ in australia). I've always assumed a habit that enormous just wouldn't be feasible and people would end up in treatment before then.

 

[Cult315]

I'm really curious as to how much money you're spending per day and how your addiction looks in general. Ive never heard anyone ever doing 10+ OC80's per day (thats $2000+ in australia). I've always assumed a habit that enormous just wouldn't be feasible and people would end up in treatment before then.

I know price discussions aren’t allowed but as of a few years ago when I last bought a (time released) OC they were charging $1/mg. Prices in my area have skyrocketed since and my last buy of an (non bulk/APAP-containing) oxy was twice that. A combination of not knowing enough people(aka getting out of the game for too long) and the heavy restrictions make real pills nearly impossible for me to find. But yeah at bare minimum unless getting a bulk price his habit would be $1000 US here, at least for me with my shit connects.

but Orange, good luck with getting your shit together. I feel ya 100% not wanting to completely quit but getting it down to a more manageable level - something I always attempted to do but never could get it right lol. Even when “quitting” opiates I’d just trade one for the other, as I still do when quitting anything. Being completely sober is a drag and if opiates weren’t so damn expensive and subs didn’t suck so much I’d likely never have quit at all.

But yeah man, 1000mg is a pretty serious dose lol. I still find it hard to believe that you didn’t know that - maybe you just didn’t want to believe you’d gotten in so deep. I was admittedly suicidally reckless when I was a teen and I’d eat 80s like they were candy and wake up drenched in vomit still fucked up the next day and still never hit 1g on oxy. I did mix my drugs up often though and was doing a lot of really dumb combinations.

Definitely stay away from street dope, you’ve managed to come this far on oxy alone don’t go to the next level. There really is no manageable up from where you’re at, only IV and/or fent and you don’t want either of those. Honestly I’m scared as fuck of fentanyl(for good reason) so my scope is a little biased but the drug has no place in a recreational setting. Shit does no good for anybody

 

[negrogesic]

You need virtually unlimited resources to use 12 OC80s a day. Which some people certainly have. But that is around quarter million dollars worth a year, maybe $75,000-$100,000/year in bulk.

In anycase, if you have such resources you should be able find black market methadone or transdermal rx fentanyl patches. Those will cover the withdrawal symptoms from 1g/day of oxycodone. Black tar heroin is a poor choice to use as a substitute. And if you are buying black tar heroin online then you'll be able to find methadone or fentanyl patches.

Not going to lie, my bullshit detector is sort of going off here, especially since you said you only ordered 1 gram of black tar heroin, yet you are using 12 80mg oxycodone tablets a day. But anything is possible and I've witnessed all sorts of bizarre things here over the year. So again, if what you've stated is the case, and you can no longer get oxycodone, I would definitely go for methadone or fentanyl patches as an alternative. I'd start with something like 60mg of methadone and slowly and carefully work my way up over a period of days, despite it not being able to fully quell the withdrawal. In terms of fentanyl, you'll need at minimum a 100ug/hr patch.

 

[xyz69]

You need virtually unlimited resources to use 12 OC80s a day. Which some people certainly have. But that is around quarter million dollars worth a year, maybe $75,000-$100,000/year in bulk.

In anycase, if you have such resources you should be able find black market methadone or transdermal rx fentanyl patches. Those will cover the withdrawal symptoms from 1g/day of oxycodone. Black tar heroin is a poor choice to use as a substitute. And if you are buying black tar heroin online then you'll be able to find methadone or fentanyl patches.

Not going to lie, my bullshit detector is sort of going off here, especially since you said you only ordered 1 gram of black tar heroin, yet you are using 12 80mg oxycodone tablets a day. But anything is possible and I've witnessed all sorts of bizarre things here over the year. So again, if what you've stated is the case, and you can no longer get oxycodone, I would definitely go for methadone or fentanyl patches as an alternative. I'd start with something like 60mg of methadone and slowly and carefully work my way up over a period of days, despite it not being able to fully quell the withdrawal. In terms of fentanyl, you'll need at minimum a 100ug/hr patch.

Considering the high dosage of oxycontin he's taking, 60 mg methadone wouldn't be enough to satisfy his dependency. Even a 100 mcg/h fentanyl patch worn on the skin wouldn't do anything for a user with such a high tolerance. He either needs to drastically reduce his oxycontin intake or to put in mouth the fentanyl patch, which by the way is less potent than the citrate form used in nasal solutions. To give you an idea, two sprays of PecFent 400 mcg (so 800 mcg total) are much more euphoric than to put in mouth a 3 mg patch. Fortunately, I have no experience with street fent. And anyway, in my experience, hydromorphone creates a higher tolerance than fentanyl. (I was able to turn 32 or 64 mg Jurnista tablets into powder and snort it). An absolutely incredible tolerance.

 

[Dextro .45]

First, I came into this thread thinking BTH was Butane Hash for some reason, was a bit confused all around for a minute once I read heroin.

Also, are you sure you’re on 1000mg of oxycodone? I know there are people out there with massive tolerances, but I’ve never heard of anybody working up from 0-1000mg oxy in a year. I don’t want to call bullshit but that just seems insane. Not saying you’re lying but excuse my skepticism, I started on oxy when I was 11 and while I may not have stayed on it full time I was on it for majority of my life into my mid-ish 20s and I never got anywhere close to 1000mg. Tramadol I was well over, but Oxy I don’t think I even hit 500.

Also tolerance and dependence go hand in hand, so for you to say you don’t hit withdrawal until you’re at less than half of your dose and not for a day or too is pretty far out of the park, too. I’ve never had a habit that ended with over 2 zeros that didn’t result in immediate WD symptoms when I didn’t have as close to my full dose as possible.

1000mg of oxycodone isn’t a “moderate” or even heavy dose - it’s practically unheard of. Almost every person on earth besides the hardest of junkies would be dead 3x over from that, and they didn’t get that way within a year.

Anyway, while I’ve never done tar(East Coast powder only) it’s typically known to be of poor quality. I wouldn’t imagine a gram would stretch far for somebody with a large oxy dose. It definitely would go absolutely nowhere for somebody with a 1000mg/day habit.

Ya, I had a serious habit with my legally prescribed opioid narcotics

Original formulation OxyContin CDN 80mg X 4 daily (near the end I'd IV administer 2 to 3 in one shot plus Oxy-IR 5mg X 4-6

Hydromorphone (Hydromorph-Contin 9mg XR beads)
Dilaudid 2mg X 4 daily

illicit street Heroin....like 15/20 years ago REAL Diacetylmorphine with its pungent odour of vinegar, light tan beige white powder with Powerful euphoric rush

After years of this mess.....I switched to Methadone 30mg daily working up to 80mg daily. Then family doc gives me scripted tablets 100-125mg daily X 30 days.

Canadian Metadol 25mg scored tablets (4-5 tablets daily as needed)
Ritalin (Methylphenidate) 50-100mg IR daily ....pairs beautifully with Methadone. Adding a dopaminergic stimulant is absolutely essential when using hi-dose, long term opioid narcotics to minimize sedation and mental/cognitive impairment

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) a "Classic Amphetamine" is a rapid acting, short lasting 3-4h duration, very effective potent monoamine DAT/NET Inverse Agonist & reuptake inhibitor .....enhanced vigilance, enhances the painkilling properties of the Opioid, reduces sedation and mental impairment , and Ritalin is the safest dopaminergic stimulant on the market, having the least cardiovascular stress on the BP & HR

Regarding Heroin / Diamorphine....the closest suitable substitute is Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) IV administered study participants couldn't differentiate which drug they received. IV Hydromorphone will fully substitute for Diacetylmorphine

Oral Oxycodone was easily the most pleasurable & euphoric....without a question. Only pharmaceutical grade Dilaudid & Diamorphine could compete.

....oral Methadone is very potent and long acting, and still a full mu-agonist and causes significant euphoric/analgesic/anxiolytic/sedative properties

 

[meeer]

Sometimes in pain management such high doses are used. Especially with cancer where the pain can gradually get worse.

True but any doctor worth their salt would probably be switching you to a stronger opioid even taking say dilaudid far more often would be less toxic than such dosages. However of course i guess a lot of things can come into consideration to take other methods of relief off the board due to a magnitude of possible issues from rare allergic reactions or something like renal failure therefor opting out the more kidney heavy opioids.

 

[Cult315]

Considering the high dosage of oxycontin he's taking, 60 mg methadone wouldn't be enough to satisfy his dependency. Even a 100 mcg/h fentanyl patch worn on the skin wouldn't do anything for a user with such a high tolerance. He either needs to drastically reduce his oxycontin intake or to put in mouth the fentanyl patch, which by the way is less potent than the citrate form used in nasal solutions. To give you an idea, two sprays of PecFent 400 mcg (so 800 mcg total) are much more euphoric than to put in mouth a 3 mg patch. Fortunately, I have no experience with street fent. And anyway, in my experience, hydromorphone creates a higher tolerance than fentanyl. (I was able to turn 32 or 64 mg Jurnista tablets into powder and snort it). An absolutely incredible tolerance.

While I wasn’t anywhere near a 1000mg oxy habit, my first run in with methadone(and also my 2nd) had me way more fucked than I found pleasurable or even comfortable at doses that I thought would be on the light side for my habit. While 60mg definitely does seem a bit low, I’d rather start low and feel it out before jumping in at a dose that may or may not be too high and end up sick for a few days. Highly doubt it would happen, but just to be safe ya know lol. I don’t remember exactly what I was on with my first methadone experience but I ended up taking 30mg and it was too much. First, and I believe last(other than a few ODs) time I’ve thrown up from an opiate since I was ~12 years old.

The 2nd time I actually planned to run them for a while which didn’t last, but I was on over a few hundred mg of oxy(+others) and started off with 20mg to be safe, which while I wasn’t in full WD it didn’t really help, but I’d learned a lesson the first time and waited like 10 hours to take more. Didn’t quite realize that 10 hours in the drug was still essentially in full affect and took 2 more, with a plan to up the dose another 10mg if I didn’t feel “high” in about 2-2.5 hours(how long it took them to really hit me every time). Around 3 hours later I was stuck between nodding out and puking my guts out again. Felt like straight shit, but also damn good for about 24 hours straight and woke up the following day(almost 48 hours after first dose I think) feeling like shit and waited as long as I could to take 30mg, as I decided that was probably the best dose for me. 30mg still made me sick as fuck lol. The following day and after it worked out good though, never moved off 30 but also didn’t stay on it long because I didn’t really like it and I was able to find oxy or something else again.

I could be wrong, and I don’t remember exact dosages cause it’s been a long time, but 30mg just seemed so weak for my oxy habit, and it was also the time I started really using H too which now that I think about it is what made me decide to switch and what I went back to(briefly, got arrested shortly after that and stayed off powder for a while). My memory is so shit lol, but yeah decided to put myself in methadone treatment cause I didn’t like my dope habit and it didn’t work out too well. Tbh I think I’m sensitive to methadone or it’s stronger than I give it credit for because from everything I’ve heard and read I technically should have been able to handle the doses I was trying to take, but the shit made me sick as hell.