Freebase vs Salt

[Rorthron]

Here is a topic I believe should be discussed thoroughly.

This is my hypothesis

Freebase Phenethylamines and Tryptamines should only be consumed vaporized. For any other consumption whether oral, insufflation, sublingual or rectal, the salt is preferred.

My conjecture is that the freebase is generally too aggressive on the human mucous tissue, besides being generally water insoluble and making difficult the absorption process. A known example is, DMT freebase which is VERY aggressive on the stomach and people generally puke, even if ingested in pills. The salt (acetate, for instance) is much more benign and very seldom gastrointestinal discomfort happens. This succeeds in several other compounds.

I have read tons of reports of people insufflating many phens and tryps, and some of them mention huge burning, others not so much. The thing is that if we look closely in the reports or in the previous or subsequent posts to find the form of the substance taken (fb or salt), a pattern emerges that generally HCl salt equals much less pain than the freebase.

If true, I believe this is a very important issue, which might change the usual view many people have on many compounds regarding the discomfort associated (2CE, 5-MeO-DMT, come to mind).

Please let your experiences pour in!

 

[Vader]

When do you see freebase phenethylamines? 2C's are usually the HCl salt, and they're notoriously horrible to snort.

 

[ayavisions]

Most nbome phens are available in freebase - also the 2Cs are horrible to snort in HCL form but it may be more effective and maybe the freebases are even worse to the nose

 

[allium]

besides being generally water insoluble and making difficult the absorption process

AFAIK, freebases of tryptamines get converted to HCl salts in your stomach, so I am not sure whether there is any difference in absorption rate from stomach.
Also, people successfully snort and plug freebases, look at the 5-MeO-DMT and AMT, for example.

As for 2C phenethylamines, there is one problem: freebases of them are oils. Good luck vaporizing, snorting, plugging and possibly even eating freebases of 2Cs.

[Freebase of 2C-T-4 in a vial]

 

[Rorthron]

AFAIK, freebases of tryptamines get converted to HCl salts in your stomach, so I am not sure whether there is any difference in absorption rate from stomach.
Also, people successfully snort and plug freebases, look at the 5-MeO-DMT and AMT, for example.

The digestive process that releases HCl does not start immediately. a small amount of powder, even a capsule does not trigger HCl release in the stomach. It is quite interesting with DMT, and this I know from first hand experience; pharmahuasca with freebase does make me sick, while with salt I'm generally fine and dandy. Yet, if after the MAOI, I eat something, like bread and butter, with the freebase, The digestive process starts and I have no problems. There was thread on that on the Nexus, some months ago

And yes, of course freebases are snorted. My issue is that, would the salts be more comfortable? if so, which? fumarate, acetate, chloride, sulfate?...

 

[Solipsis]

Depends on the water solubility among other things. Even if a compound is irritating, if it is taken up by a mucous membrane readily there is not much time for it to do harm. Instead, if it just sits there messing the place up, that is much less convenient.
Look at 2C-B, with the HCl and HBr salts being the most common ones. The HBr salt if I remember correctly is more water soluble and hurts less to snort. There is a slight difference in molecular potency (from the modest difference in weight), but there may also be a slight difference in pharmacokinetics from the way it is absorbed, though the ROA is a much bigger factor of course.

Obviously I don't know all of the properties of the different salts of the many compounds available, and I am not sure how well anyone has tested this and shared with the public. It would be a major pain in the ass to change a compound from one salt into another because of modestly favorable properties. If you were planning on snorting them I would suggest first and foremost that you stop doing that if you worry about the irritation of mucous membranes so much. Switch to oral dosing instead.
If you take the compounds orally, pre-dissolve your compound. If in freebase form add an acid to salt it and neutralize as you wish, depending on the type of acid and if you added excess. That way you should have an ideal form for your body to process, not considering first-pass metabolism of course which is unfavorable if you want to be economic about things or want a different duration or comeup, etc.

Freebase DMT is sometimes advised to dissolve in some cola because it would yield a DMT phosphate solution. This is believed to be superior for ingestion. Personally I wonder if the acidity of the drink itself may be involved or even the only reason to do this, since there is a theory that tryptamines are more effectively absorbed when taken with an acid. I don't know what's going on with that but it seems that to have them protonated already makes for an optimal absorption time and minimal time to upset the stomach in any way. A double win, even if there is no hard evidence for it. My experience has shown it to be true at least to some extent, it either works better than normal for me or at least has an absence of comeup side-effects. Some phenethylamines may work the other way around by applying an alkaline medium or carrier. Bicarb would be quick and dirty but an antacid has always done me right.

The next time you dose yourself with freebase AMT, think about this and consider dropping it in an acidic drink first. Be it cola or OJ or something else like that.

By the way its interesting that freebase NBOMe's are not oils.