Former President Ronald Reagan Dies at 93

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I stand by my point that all lives should be regarded as equal. Come hell or high water, that's my stance. Bush not caring if innocent IRaqi's die is just as disgusting and sick as some of you who say "fuck him" about ANY PERSON IN THE WORLD DYING
 
I never said i was happy to see anyone to die. I never said he should be treat unequally. Hell.. if he was, (harry speak) he would've been tried for crimes against humanity. I just don't give a shit he died of natural causes, and all the media coverage revamping attraction to the republican agenda is sickening.

But everyone wants to accredit everything positive that happened under his admin as a way to remember him. Well sorry, how abuot the truth.
 
corruptive forces said:
I disagree with all 6 sentences you just wrote :)

Way to exercise your rights! Since you want to be stubborn, I'll just say we agree to disagree and hand you a birthday party goodie bag so you can be on your way. :D
 
DD if you have a retort directed at me, use PM. You're on my ignore list officially.
 
Sorry mods for the rant.

It just absolutely makes me disgustingly sick when I see some of the "humane" things said in this thread about the death of another person. Sick, I wouldn't say these things about any one on the earth if they died. Ever. It's enough to make someone vomit that there are people this cruel and heartless walking the planet.
 
I find it amusing that people who weren't even alive when RR was pres seem to take a lot of joy in bashing him.

Furthermore, I find it sad that people pick apart presidents like RR and Nixon because of things like the Iran/contra affair and Watergate. ALL POLITICIANS ARE DIRTY, THEY ALL DO THIS KIND OF SHIT. It's just that some get caught and some don't. EVERY president has skeletons in his closet. Washington wasn't perfect, nor was Lincoln. Even FDR did a few slimy things in his time, and he's been called the greatest american leader in history.

I think Reagan said it himself better than any of you could...
Is America better off than it was before he was president?
 
^
depends on your definiton of "better" which is subjective from person to person. I'm pretty sure alot of the lower class, the drug users, and homosexuals didn't feel better off. I'm sure the 3,000 live on 9/11 are better off. I'm sure alot of dead Iraqis and Iranians aren't better off. I'm sure a good portion of latin american isn't either.

Yeah, in all reality i don't hold much respect for most politician's dirty deeds. I'm not a democrat kiss ass, i just see them as the lesser evil.

His decisions directly affect this generation whether people admit it or not, and if you read history books, lib, con or moderate, you can see the damage from this man's admin on today's culture. And frankly, i don't care how "good" it is b/c of him.. i don't see life as expendible to further only america's goals. I'd rather see this country plummet into nothingness than to continue living in convienence and dominance on the deaths of others.
 
not that i dont respect who he is, but why in the hell are the stock markets closed on friday!!?!
 
You really do have to have a lot of respect for Reagan, even if you dislike him. Not respect Ronald Reagan because you disagree with him? What a joke.

What I find absofuckinglutely funny but sad is the magical powers people like to attribute to the president in their rhetoric. Presidents can't magically force the creation of jobs or the saving of specific human lives. Hmmm, how about averting global nuclear disaster, how many lives do ya spose THAT saved? Just because the event never happened, people forget about the very real potential that was neutralized.

Just like if Bush had authorized billions of dollars of terrorist spending and effort prior to 9/11, he would get pretty much ZERO credit for averting terrible disaster. He would have been ruthlessly criticized by all the usual suspects about spending too much money on terrorism. But because that event actually happened, it becomes "real" for us and oh we should've done so much more. Hey guess what? The people who commit crimes are the ones responsible.

You can't possibly conjecture that had more money been spent on AIDS research in the 80's that an appreciable number of victims would have lived an appreciable extra amount of time. Oh but Reagan "killed" lots of people in the 80's by not funding research. All by himself. Give me a fucking break.

Ok, enough venting...I have to discipline myself. I'm not really even a huge republican fan, but you have to judge someone on their true pros and cons instead of ideology, and you have to consider that we have hindsight.

Everybody makes mistakes.

Reagan was a great president, probably the greatest we'll ever live to see.

EDIT: Oh, and last I checked the terrorists who took down the trade center used plane tickets and box cutters, not M-16's from the 1980s...
 
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^
Contras were just a mistake?
The funding and training of terrorists groups is what was a major backing for 9/11, not the physical objects they used.

You want 2 calls on his pros/cons, here:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=2005458#post2005458
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143138&r=2

Reagan was a great president, probably the greatest we'll ever live to see.
Yeah.. and the libs say the same thing about Clinton. Take your pick for the "best" leaders of this country.. the fucktard on the left, or the fucktard on the right.
 
hang on a fucking second people.

president reagan made 'mistakes'?

i'm sorry, but the man was a war criminal. please note that i can respect his dignity in death, and am CERTAINLY not celebrating any loss of life, but reagan should IMO have been tried for his culpability in all manner of atrocities (as should other leaders at the time, like thatcher).

to those of you so eager to defend reagan (we'll call you 'apologists' from now on), here's some interesting reading:

reagan is a man who supported Pol Pot (who killed between 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people) , who described the contras as 'our brothers... equal to our founding fathers' (they murdered 3,346 children) and who presided over massive aid spending to fund torture, mutilation, murder and mass execution in El Salvador .

i'm sorry, but if you fucking read anything about nicaragua, i'm afraid that saying 'the contras was a mistake' is pretty much akin to saying 'treblinka was a mistake, Hitler wasn't all bad!!!'

these guys are fucking evil personified. let me remind you of some of the actions of the contras, which Reagan personally called 'our brothers':

they raped a pregnant 20 year old, then tore the fetus out of her, before placing HER LOVER'S HEAD INSIDE HER WOMB.

and what about Pol Pot's genocidal regime?

nearly 2 million died - and torture was used on nearly 1/4 of the entire population, whilst the US and other Western Countries funded Pol Pot's regime, refused to allow aid to be distributed, blocked any reporting of the real situation, claimed that the only people actually helping (the vietnamese and russians) were murdering more Cambodians, and worked as hard as possible inside the UN to ensure Pol Pot remained the legitimate and recognised leader of Cambodia, EVEN AFTER HE WAS GONE, so that aid could not be distributed by the Red Cross and ICRC.

i'm sorry, but i cannot respect anything about the Reagan administration's policies in these areas - they are fucking inexcusable.

jesus, to hear some rich white kids moaning about mild criticism of Reagan - maybe if YOU grew up in el salvador or nicaragua, or had your entire family executed by the Khmer Rouge, you'd fucking think twice.

what, you like to draw comparisons between saddam and reagan? LOL - Pol Pot alone killed millions more people than saddam could ever dream of. how ill-informed, irresponsible, and deliberately ignorant some members of our community are.



it's pathetic.
 
cambodia:

tuolsleng_2.jpg



VictimPictures.jpg


skulls.jpg




nicaragua:

massgrave.GIF



After my tour in the U.S. Air Force with the 2064th Communications Squadron on Shemya Island and the 964th Airborne Warning & Control Squadron at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, I returned to Ohio and enrolled in college to study history. Each year during my undergraduate days at Walsh University, the Institute for Justice and Peace would sponsor visiting speakers to address a meeting of the Walsh University Peace Academy. Memorable among these speakers was Fr. Bernard Suvil, a Catholic priest serving as a missionary in Nicaragua who was on sabbatical leave while studying at the Washington Theological Union. Originally from the Diocese of Greensburg, PA, he spoke to us on December 5th, 1986. (see www.walsh.edu)


Next, Fr. Survil said this billionaire had a gang down there called the Contras, and that the Contras were getting money from American tax victims to buy arms. He said where the Contras encountered financial shortfalls, the CIA would step in with direct contributions of their own. The ability of the billionaire to involve the U.S. government in his private war particularly disturbed this Catholic missionary.

Fr. Survil said that the U.S. government's support of the of the Contras in Nicaragua represented a declaration of war against the Nicaraguan people. He particularly detested the covert funneling of money to the Contras from the covert sale of weapons to Iran, saying that it was the "intent of President Reagan to cause pain to the Nicaraguan people, even at the expense of deceiving Congress and the American people".

...

Most disturbing about the whole affair was the mobster attitude taken by Uncle Sam in ignoring the ruling of the World Court - the judicial arm of the United Nations. Just weeks earler, the World Court overwhelmingly held that the United States violated basic principles of international law by training and arming the Contras attacking Nicaragua, urging the assassination of Sandinista civilian leaders, setting mines in Nicaraguan harbors, and attacking the oil refinery. The Court ordered the United States government to pay reparations to compensate for the damage done.

...

I strongly condemn terrorism, but CIA officials and their former directors are never punished - never punished for publishing a manual urging the "neutralization" of Nicaruguan citizens, never punished for running drugs out of Vietnam and bringing about a war that devastated the civilian population, never punished for running poppy seeds out of Afghanistan, etc (see www.CIAdrugs.com).

How are countries who are not members of the U.N. Security Council supposed to get justice? What would you do if your neighbors harassed you, stole from you, bullied you, and sometimes beat you or your family members? You would call the police.

And what would you do when the police will not help you, the courts will not help you, your neighbors will not help you? Many people do move from third world countries, seeking refuge in a new land. But, to borrow a cliche, some would rather fight than switch.


The Nicaraguans fought back in Nicaragua. And they lost. But what if a Nicaraguan had gotten the bright idea to come to Cinncinnati and take out the billionaire? And maybe some of his friends?

They might have had a better chance had they done so. But what about the innocent Buckeyes dismissed as "colateral damage"?

It is no wonder that the victims today of Uncle Sam's global injustice are taking the fight to its source. The victims cannot rely on the average American voter to help them out. How many American voters listened to Fr. Survil and pressured their politicians to stop the aggression against Nicaragua? How many American voters voted the politicians out of office for their negligence? Too few.

And that is how Uncle Sam's foreign policy puts our public safety at risk.

The American voter's indifference to the plight of Uncle Sam's global victims is forcing the victims to make us concerned. "If we're going to hurt, then they're going to hurt along with us" so goes their thinking born of years of frustration without international law.

...


Justice Jackson, the United States prosecutor at the Nuremburg trials of Nazi war criminals, said "If certain acts in violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us".

My has our country disregared those words during the last 50 years! www.fff.org
- Robert Williams, School Administrator (February 08, 2002; Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio)



“Systematically, the Contras have been assassinating religious workers, teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators. Remember the ‘Assassination Manual’ that surfaced in 1984? It caused such a stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror to traumatize society so that it cannot function.

“I don’t mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your Government and its agents are doing.

“They go into villages. They haul out families. With the children forced to watch, they castrate the father. They peel the skin off his face. They put a grenade in his mouth, and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch, they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes, for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children.


“This is nobody’s propaganda!

“There have been over a hundred thousand American “Witnesses for Peace” who’ve gone down there, and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed these atrocities immediately after they’ve happened, and documented thirteen thousand people killed this way — mostly women and children.

“These are the activities done by the Contras. The Contras are the people President Reagan called ‘freedom fighters.’ He said: ‘They are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers.’”

this excerpt was taken by a speech from a CIA veteran and US marine corps major, called John Stockwell.
 
clinton only lied about getting a blow job. kind of puts things in perspective?

alasdair
 
^ Perhaps for those who have no major political affiliation or side on this matter.


Those with a strong left or right stance refuse accept any FACTS that show things differently than they view them and, in turn, look like morons. What can you do though?
 
alasdairm said:
clinton only lied about getting a blow job. kind of puts things in perspective?

alasdair

Clinton also bombed an innocent Aspirin factory in the Sudan as well.
 
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