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For every 1 million people who use ecstasy, only 7 people will die

For every 1 million people who use the drug, only 7 people will die.
i think it's important to point out that these could be ecstacy-related deaths (i.e of those 7, it's not clear that it was the ecstacy which actually killed them rather than, as is common, overheating, not enough fluids, etc.)
alasdair
 
Originally posted by NSU:

Not that any of us will ever live to see ecstasy legalized...
[ 01 July 2002: Message edited by: NSU ]

Sure we can. Become politically involved and you can make anything happen. You just have to work at it. Instead of sittig around stoned all the time. Plus in 20+ years our generation(those currently 16-30) will be in control. And most of us are open to legalizing at least Weed. Down the line it will happen, and before that I will buy alot of stock in Tobacco and pharmacutical(sp?) companies.
 
Originally posted by NSU:
Not that any of us will ever live to see ecstasy legalized...

just move to switzerland, it's always been legal there
 
Originally posted by brazilian vibe:

Also u have to learn how to use drugs.. any drug.. even aspirine.. [...] Serotonine takes up to 2 weeks to be re-produced by your brain.. SO...... Why taking 4 pills or 5 pills in a period of a week ?? Know how to use the drug....

This is the main reason that I do NOT want to see Ecstacy legalized: here's why.
A friend of mine was told to take ibuprofen by our trainer at my college to ease the pain and swelling in his knee. A little while later, he was in IMMENSE amounts of pain at the hospital, and it turns out that he was taking TEN TO TWELVE ibuprofen three times a day, because he thought, well hell, two is good, five helps more, ten must be what i need because I am a big guy. Didn't ask anyone. Just took them, because they were free at our health center anyways. They KILLED the lining of his stomach.
There are LOTS of idiots out there who are going to hurt themselves VERY badly if it becomes legalized. If it's easy and cheap to get pills that make you feel like that, people are going to say, one is good, five is better, every day is better. And NEVER EVER look at harm reduction sites, or read labels. And quite frankly, I don't feel like paying the taxes that are going to be needed to pay for their healthcare when they fuck themselves up.
I would love to not have to be afraid to go to jail when I have pills in my possession, but I would rather lots of stupid people didn't die. So I think pills shouldn't be legal.
And don't you dare come back to this by telling me that if people are stupid, they deserve to die.
 
Alasdairm - true, but those who died from overheating wouldn't have died if they hadn't taken E (you ever see anyone sober overheat and die at a club?).
Alf: my first reaction to the ibrufen (sp?) story was "Darwin award" - damn, I need to get my PLUR back. You do make some good points. However, I tend to think that if MDMA were legal, more accurate representations of its potential health risks could be made. Think of how many people, even on this board, dismiss all scientific evidence that MDMA may be harmful - "they would say that, the government just wants to stop us taking it".
Now, I feel that if MDMA were legal, health information about it would have the same status as information about cigarettes - we believe the health warnings - I think more people would believe warnings about E if it were legal.
Another factor to mention is that, while a lot of people, myself included, mess up on E by taking too much, we learn from the experience, and recover without too much lasting harm. My experience: I took it weekly for about a year, stopped, had a bad, bad crash, went on prozac, recovered. No big deal, really. While this did cost the UK taxpayer some money, its nothing compared to the health costs of smoking or obesity. (And if cost is an issue, legalised E could be taxed to support the health system).
(Good thread people :) )
 
I agree with Simon, if it were legal there would be better and more widespread information, apart from strong quality control....
searchingfortruth, I admire your idealism.But I think I will accept mowonmai's suggestion and move to Switzerland...A place where ecstasy is legal is definitely for me...
 
Originally posted by Alf:

There are LOTS of idiots out there who are going to hurt themselves VERY badly if it becomes legalized.

What?!? And there aren't already hordes of idiots doing damage to themselves with the drug. Don't think that because it's illegal it's all one big exclusive club. The idiots are here to stay buddy.
 
Originally posted by illimex:
ten year old...i think you made the point yourself.
And nobodies saying MDMA is completely safe. The links are pathetic? They are only examples and it was a focking joke anyway so lighten up.
This is the problem with those who think people who advocate harm reduction are only "fooling themselves." Harm reduction is exactly what it claims to be...it is not a magic left hook into deaths jaw, knocking him unconscious until after your roll has faded away. It's a way of saying, "look, people are doing ecstasy, we should probably give them information that could save their lives instead of ruining it with jailtime." That's all.
I never once advocated fooling yourself into thinking ecstasy can never kill. But if it hasn't by now, it probably won't if you take precautions. Johnny Boy, the stance you take makes you sound like you should be on the DEA message board instead of bluelight.
I'm sorry a ten year old died in the UK from taking MDMA. Ten years olds die from taking too much OTC medication as well (stuff, left around for kids to eat, is the responsibility of the adult involved. You don't leave MDMA lying around, looking to a kid like a new type of childrens vitamin most likely, to be eaten.) All I have promoted here is responsibility. If you see something else, you're imagining it.
Not to be mean, but lighten up a bit.
(And don't think I don't understand the mentality that you speak of. Some people just spew forth statistics to suit their own purposes. I am not one of those people...I just say, if you're going to risk you're life, (which you do every day anyway just by waking up!) wear your god damned seat belt!)

Sorry for calling your links pathetic, I know you aren't really one of the people I'm talking about, but spewing forth more about the whole gobstopper bussiness really made me mad.
Gobstopers really aren't comparable with MDMA, yes life is one big calculated risk but comparing the two seemed like about the most stupid thing anyone could say.
It was stupid the first time and someone bringing it up a second, well you can see why I think anyone who talks about gobstopers being more dangerous then MDMA can die.
 
Johny Boy,perfect explaination, those last two paragraphs you wrote were very honest & realistic!
Thanks, if only for the fact it made me feel more content about what I thought the whole post was/is trying to discuss or achieve :)
Let's be sensible & have some fun...I'm keen to try and achieve both ;)
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: Scatteredasfuck ]
 
Johny Boy Wrote
I don't want to be a kiljoy and I'm certainly not a preacher but it annoys me so much when I see people fooling themself into a sense of security because they have read a few pages on erowid or bluelight, the same people who take pills every week but convince themselves their alright because their post loading with 5-htp.
To me this sounds like an elitist concern. At least the people reading this and other harm reduction sites have an awareness of that MDMA CAN be harmful with irresponsable use.
The problem i have when i try to talk to my friends about not taking 5 pills in one night and supplementing with antioxidants is that they just dont agree that the drug is in any way more harmful then giving you a couple of low days after the party. And i talk about people who have been taking regularly for years!
Just know that MDMA is completley safe until it kills you
What in life is completely safe? Only birth and death is a total certainty. MDMA used responsibly brings few acute risks to the user, and in my opinion few longterm too.
 
^look mate don't make me go down this road again.
My posts are addressed to people like your friends who think that the few moody days after are the only side effect.
Not to you but to the people I see reading this forum everyday believing the myths and the psuedo-science half truths that get passed around.
To be honest I'm not even worried about dieing, I'm more worried about the state my brain will be in when I hit 50.
The reason I don't sugar coat my posts is because those who don't want to see the truth might as well be presented with the blunt fact that they are damaging their body for what? A high?.
But I guess I should realize that presenting anything in a scary way has the reverse effect, making the users go into deeper denial.
I know your just thinking about the next party this weekend but why not try thinking about where you want to be in a few years and weather boshing pills fits into this. I guess if you want to be a wash out carry on. Only time will tell what this shit really does to the brain.
 
Johny Boy wrote:
Not to you but to the people I see reading this forum everyday believing the myths and the psuedo-science half truths that get passed around.
To be honest I'm not even worried about dieing, I'm more worried about the state my brain will be in when I hit 50.
The reason I don't sugar coat my posts is because those who don't want to see the truth might as well be presented with the blunt fact that they are damaging their body for what? A high?.
But I guess I should realize that presenting anything in a scary way has the reverse effect, making the users go into deeper denial.
I know your just thinking about the next party this weekend but why not try thinking about where you want to be in a few years and weather boshing pills fits into this. I guess if you want to be a wash out carry on. Only time will tell what this shit really does to the brain.
I dont know, should i be offended? Are you saying that people that dont share your dark wiew of MDMA are in denial? Does it not occur to you that my opinions too are based on real life experience?
Maybe 5-htp is pseudoscience. Maybe MDMA neurotoxiticy is. You have a point in that we really dont know, the future will tell. In the mean time harm reduction.
My point was: dont slag off the people who at least make the effort, read these pages, buy the supplements, talk to their friends. Just because they dont share your idea of how MDMA shopuld be used (once every blue moon?), does not by automation make them irresponsible wash-outs.
 
Originally posted by stoned_baby:
Johny Boy wrote:
I dont know, should i be offended? Are you saying that people that dont share your dark wiew of MDMA are in denial? Does it not occur to you that my opinions too are based on real life experience?
Look read my f-ing post again, I said I was talking about poeple like your friends, I've never once said anythign bad about pre and post loading.
The only point I've tried to get across is to the twats who reasure them selfs with all this crap and live in denial thinking they will be absolutley safe.
Not once did I aim any of this at you until you presumed I was talking about you.
Maybe 5-htp is pseudoscience. Maybe MDMA neurotoxiticy is. You have a point in that we really dont know, the future will tell. In the mean time harm reduction.
My point was: dont slag off the people who at least make the effort, read these pages, buy the supplements, talk to their friends. Just because they dont share your idea of how MDMA shopuld be used (once every blue moon?), does not by automation make them irresponsible wash-outs.
I wasn't slagging off the people who pre and post load I was slagging the people who think reading about it is enough to make them safe because they have a few statistics.
Why don't you get a clue and read my posts.
I'm getting really angry at all the negitive reponse I'm getting for saying something which should be blatently obvious.
Pills kill and damage your brain. The fact tha only x amount of people out of x amount die dosen't mean shit.
 
here is the entirety of what I have posted in this thread so you don't have to pick and mix which quotes you think will reinforce your attack. As you seem to have some sort of idea I'm some moderation freak read it. I have done more then my fair share of MDMA abuse and if I think my posts will discourage atleast one person from using loads of e for a buzz then I'll be grateful. The best form of harm reduction is to never abuse in the first place. You show all the signs of clasic denial, but after a few years of over doing it I'd hope you feel the same way as me. For your sake
Even someone like me who has at points boshed 10 strong pills in a night could still take 100mg of pharmasutical MDMA and drop dead.
Even if I where in a well cooled enviroment, staying well hydrated and not overly so, my heart could still stop or my body could go into shock or losse bio stasi and rocket my temprature so fast I died.
MDMA is a killer weather you belive it or not and it's not just bad pills.
You are more likely to be ok than not but I see a lot of users of MDMA deny to themself that there is anything that could go wrong if they test and take precausions. But it can and it will.
Alcohol and cigs are a killer, but to the people complaining about them would you actually like them banned?
I wouldn't because I enjoy a good drink every now and again and as long as I don't down two bottles of jack d's them I'm probably just going to wake up with a hangover rather than a brain riddled with nurotoxicity and a possible death.
I could also probably drink everyday for the next 5 years and still be saine and walking.
2 years of weekly MDMA use is still causing minor sanity problems even after 2 monthss 9 days since my last pill.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Edvard Munch:
Right MDMA is a killer. And so is choking on Everlasting Gobstoppers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me and Mr Mashead have probabably taken more pills then everyone in this thread added togethern so don't think I'm some ANTI-MDMA evangelist.
The fact is I get sick of people living in denial.
I know you can retreat to your own safe little wonderland by denying anything negative about MDMA as goverment propoganda.
The only reason people like you come to bluelight is because you can feel safe that you've read all this harm reduction information that makes you sure you will be safe when it not true.
Like you say you can die from anything but if you can't see I'm more likely to die from dropping a pill than eating a gobstoper then I hope next time you get high you get so fucked you choke on your tounge.
I donr't know anyone who's been killed eating gobstopers, crossing the road, but I do now people who have died taking MDMA.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TJTiliger:
Like they said, everybody is gunna die someday. I can think of alot worse ways to die than grinning and dancing my ass off, and none of them are as fun. Your life is about the experiences you have while you are alive, not trying to extend it indefinitely by playing everything "safe."
Live Life
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[sarcasam]Yeah dieing from MDMA is a big laugh, I was smilling the whole time[/sarcasm]
Do you know how it kills you, blood oozing out of every pour in you body as your body heats so rapidly you losse bio-stais
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, if you would drink every day for the next 5(!) years, getting as 'drunk' from liquor as you get from two pills, you would NOT be sane at all. Belive me.
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getting as drunk as two pills would be easy as after the first two weeks of pilling you would have done so much damage 2 pills wouldnt do anything.
This thread really makes me mad at the stupidity of most so called educated drug users.
And to all thoses saying you gotta die someday, well I'd like to die in my bed IN MY SLEEP AT 90.
Not in a ball in the corner of a club in agony bleeding outa every hole.
Basicaly all I'm saying in this thread is use your brian, LD50 means shit, the figures are probably extrapolated from tests on mice and monkeys not humans.
Do you think they just round up a thousand inmates and dose them up on 5g MDMA and see how many die.
LD50 is the last of you're worries, especialy if you live in America where MDMA is so dam expensive.
All I'm asking is that you think about the risk you take for a few hours of artaficial fun.
I don't want to be a kiljoy and I'm certainly not a preacher but it annoys me so much when I see people fooling themself into a sense of security because they have read a few pages on erowid or bluelight, the same people who take pills every week but convince themselves their alright because their post loading with 5-htp.
Just know that MDMA is completley safe until it kills you
illimex
thoses links are pathetic, of course people have died from that. But if you eat a gobstopper corectly you wouldn't die the chemicals inside wouldn't throw your brain chemistry so out of whack it kills you, MDMA used correctly could still kill you.
In the UK a 10 year old died not long ago taking 1 MDMA pill she found at home. No she didn't choke on a gobstopper instead she probaly had the worst few hours of her short life while her pulse hit 190 and bodied burned up. I'd rather choke.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by illimex:
ten year old...i think you made the point yourself.
And nobodies saying MDMA is completely safe. The links are pathetic? They are only examples and it was a focking joke anyway so lighten up.
This is the problem with those who think people who advocate harm reduction are only "fooling themselves." Harm reduction is exactly what it claims to be...it is not a magic left hook into deaths jaw, knocking him unconscious until after your roll has faded away. It's a way of saying, "look, people are doing ecstasy, we should probably give them information that could save their lives instead of ruining it with jailtime." That's all.
I never once advocated fooling yourself into thinking ecstasy can never kill. But if it hasn't by now, it probably won't if you take precautions. Johnny Boy, the stance you take makes you sound like you should be on the DEA message board instead of bluelight.
I'm sorry a ten year old died in the UK from taking MDMA. Ten years olds die from taking too much OTC medication as well (stuff, left around for kids to eat, is the responsibility of the adult involved. You don't leave MDMA lying around, looking to a kid like a new type of childrens vitamin most likely, to be eaten.) All I have promoted here is responsibility. If you see something else, you're imagining it.
Not to be mean, but lighten up a bit.
(And don't think I don't understand the mentality that you speak of. Some people just spew forth statistics to suit their own purposes. I am not one of those people...I just say, if you're going to risk you're life, (which you do every day anyway just by waking up!) wear your god damned seat belt!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for calling your links pathetic, I know you aren't really one of the people I'm talking about, but spewing forth more about the whole gobstopper bussiness really made me mad.
Gobstopers really aren't comparable with MDMA, yes life is one big calculated risk but comparing the two seemed like about the most stupid thing anyone could say.
It was stupid the first time and someone bringing it up a second, well you can see why I think anyone who talks about gobstopers being more dangerous then MDMA can die.
^look mate don't make me go down this road again.
My posts are addressed to people like your friends who think that the few moody days after are the only side effect.
Not to you but to the people I see reading this forum everyday believing the myths and the psuedo-science half truths that get passed around.
To be honest I'm not even worried about dieing, I'm more worried about the state my brain will be in when I hit 50.
The reason I don't sugar coat my posts is because those who don't want to see the truth might as well be presented with the blunt fact that they are damaging their body for what? A high?.
But I guess I should realize that presenting anything in a scary way has the reverse effect, making the users go into deeper denial.
I know your just thinking about the next party this weekend but why not try thinking about where you want to be in a few years and weather boshing pills fits into this. I guess if you want to be a wash out carry on. Only time will tell what this shit really does to the brain.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by stoned_baby:
Johny Boy wrote:
I dont know, should i be offended? Are you saying that people that dont share your dark wiew of MDMA are in denial? Does it not occur to you that my opinions too are based on real life experience?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Look read my f-ing post again, I said I was talking about poeple like your friends, I've never once said anythign bad about pre and post loading.
The only point I've tried to get across is to the twats who reasure them selfs with all this crap and live in denial thinking they will be absolutley safe.
Not once did I aim any of this at you until you presumed I was talking about you.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe 5-htp is pseudoscience. Maybe MDMA neurotoxiticy is. You have a point in that we really dont know, the future will tell. In the mean time harm reduction.
My point was: dont slag off the people who at least make the effort, read these pages, buy the supplements, talk to their friends. Just because they dont share your idea of how MDMA shopuld be used (once every blue moon?), does not by automation make them irresponsible wash-outs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't slagging off the people who pre and post load I was slagging the people who think reading about it is enough to make them safe because they have a few statistics.
Why don't you get a clue and read my posts.
I'm getting really angry at all the negitive reponse I'm getting for saying something which should be blatently obvious.
Pills kill and damage your brain. The fact tha only x amount of people out of x amount die dosen't mean shit.
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: Johny Boy ]
 
The best form of harm reduction is to never abuse in the first place. You show all the signs of clasic denial, but after a few years of over doing it I'd hope you feel the same way as me. For your sake
Exactly what i was getting to. Your postings smells a lot more of "just say no" than "harm reduction".
I understand your intentions as good, by not "sugar coating" you postings (exaggerating the negative in my opinion) you mean to deterr young partygoers from repeating your mistakes. But the problem is, a lot of young partygoers are smart. They dont buy into scare propaganda, either from government drug agiencies or embittered ravers on harm reduction sites.
Maybe the problem is a lack of common reference frame when we talk about MDMA. I have not found any conclusive evidence anywhere on the web that small recreational doses of the substance should be considered neurotoxic. But you seem to be certain. Where have you found this information?
And as to wheter i am in denial or not, thats not for me to ansver. I currently do e about 1 a month, postload with antioxidants and have a good time.
If my more frequent use in the past have done me any lasting brain damage, well that remains to be seen. I would say not. But then again, who knows what one of Dr Ricaurtes brain scans would reveal?
Look read my f-ing post again, I said I was talking about poeple like your friends, I've never once said anythign bad about pre and post loading.
Yes, but a bit later on you adressed me directly, read your own F-ing posts :/
Thats why i asked you IF i should be offended, IF you were refering to me. Because it was not altogether clear.
 
Exactly what i was getting to. Your postings smells a lot more of "just say no" than "harm reduction".
I understand your intentions as good, by not "sugar coating" you postings (exaggerating the negative in my opinion) you mean to deterr young partygoers from repeating your mistakes. But the problem is, a lot of young partygoers are smart. They dont buy into scare propaganda, either from government drug agiencies or embittered ravers on harm reduction sites.
Thats why I said
But I guess I should realize that presenting anything in a scary way has the reverse effect, making the users go into deeper denial.
I have been taken off topic in many of my post my that the real message was lost.
I shouldn't have bothered.
Do what ever you want to your self. I'm sorry I cared enough to try and add a different view from the hords of people thinking they are safe.
Yes I'm being over critical, but someone had to in a thread where every one else is being overly optemistic.
People always shoot the messenger, I must be a bad person for trying to add some perspective to a post full of people who think MDMA is on par with gobstoppers.
Yes, but a bit later on you adressed me directly, read your own F-ing posts :/
Thats why i asked you IF i should be offended, IF you were refering to me. Because it was not altogether clear.
Of course I started addressing you after you posted, nothing I posted before your post was address to you because you hadn't posted yet. simple. :)
 
And just to clarify, so i dont get accused of painting a totally rosecoloured imagine:
Im sure that some damage is being done to your brain when you consume this drug, even if its just in small recreational amounts. All drugs and chemichal substances put a strain on your body, some more thanothers. Thats why i eat antioxidants
with the pill.
I just dont believe that the small damage, oxidative stress or whatever
done from one or two pills taken not too frequently justifies all this negativity and doom-prediction about brain damage, depression and what not.
The mindset about ecstasy one gets from reading some postings here
does not make me look forward much to the next time dropping.
 
Yeah I've done hundreds of pills, and I'm still hear alive and well. Of course I'm not trying to say its all bad.
My only intentions from my first post where to provide another perspective.
One which people got very defensive about and started making stupid remarks pushing me further into the doom monger corner.
I accepted the role of doom monger because they know many people belive what I don't know can't harm me. Fortunatly most bluelighters aren't like this.
But this is an open message board and anyone from anywhere could pick and mix potentialy dengerous information.
Now I don't really want to have to post again in this thread so I hope people can admit that they are taking a dangerous drug! Ok now you've accepted that, why did you have a problem with me telling it to you in the first place.
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: Johny Boy ]
 
But I guess I should realize that presenting anything in a scary way has the reverse effect, making the users go into deeper denial.
I know your just thinking about the next party this weekend but why not try thinking about where you want to be in a few years and weather boshing pills fits into this. I guess if you want to be a wash out carry on. Only time will tell what this shit really does to the brain.
I meant this posting, where you adress me, or not? Maybe just partygoers in general?
Anyway.
 
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