For every 1 million people who use ecstasy, only 7 people will die

[JB]

Originally posted by stoned_baby:

I meant this posting, where you adress me, or not? Maybe just partygoers in general?
Anyway.
I should have made it clearer the first part was addressed to you, the latter was addressed to those earlier in the thread.

But I guess I should realize that presenting anything in a scary way has the reverse effect, making the users go into deeper denial.
I know your just thinking about the next party this weekend but why not try thinking about where you want to be in a few years and weather boshing pills fits into this. I guess if you want to be a wash out carry on. Only time will tell what this shit really does to the brain.
was not aimed at you
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: Johny Boy ]

 

[stoned_baby]

Now I don't really want to have to post again in this thread so I hope people can admit that they are taking a dangerous drug! Ok now you've accepted that, why did you have a problem with me telling it to you in the first place.
Read my first postings again. the problem was with slagging off the few good people that reach these forums and actually try to do something to protect themselves. Like i said, my problem is that so few of my friends even have the insight about potential risks with partydrugs to read a page like this to get information about protection.

 

[JB]

Originally posted by stoned_baby:

Read my first postings again. the problem was with slagging off the few good people that reach these forums and actually try to do something to protect themselves. Like i said, my problem is that so few of my friends even have the insight about potential risks with partydrugs to read a page like this to get information about protection.
And some people are just looking for a quick fix, some sort of peace of mind that they are what they are doing is ok, thats who it's all aimed at.
What I'm talking about is a mind set that I am doing xxx I will be ok.
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: Johny Boy ]

 

[Alf]

Originally posted by ME_AM_PRODUCT:
What?!? And there aren't already hordes of idiots doing damage to themselves with the drug. Don't think that because it's illegal it's all one big exclusive club. The idiots are here to stay buddy.
Ahem. The "idiots" that are doing damage to themselves are x number of people. When things become easier to attain, more people usually use them, thus x number of people will become larger. I have several friends who are extremely curious about E, but refuse to take it because of the effects its illegality could have on their schooling, job, family life, etc. I don't think it's a big exclusive club, I just think that when it's illegal, there are fewer people who are going to go out and take ten pills to roll as hard as they can. And dance. or drive. or do harmful activities (yes, I know a lot of people who use e do it in safe settings--we're not talking about those people, they're not who I'm worried about getting hold of the drug. Not that I don't think they have a right, because they do, but I'm concerned with whether they really care about what could happen to themselves or *others*)

Alf: my first reaction to the ibrufen (sp?) story was "Darwin award" - damn, I need to get my PLUR back.
Yep, and I agree-- how many Darwin awards might go to E users in the future?
You do make some good points. However, I tend to think that if MDMA were legal, more accurate representations of its potential health risks could be made. Think of how many people, even on this board, dismiss all scientific evidence that MDMA may be harmful - "they would say that, the government just wants to stop us taking it".
I agree. Cigarettes will kill you, and that stops some people. But there are a LOT of people who really don't give a fuck... and I think the same thing will happen with ecstasy. People will believe the warnings, but a lot of people (especially young people) have the attitude that they are invincible and things won't hurt them, and I'm betting that they won't pay a lot of attention.

 

[JB]

Alf posted

I agree. Cigarettes will kill you, and that stops some people. But there are a LOT of people who really don't give a fuck... and I think the same thing will happen with ecstasy. People will believe the warnings, but a lot of people (especially young people) have the attitude that they are invincible and things won't hurt them, and I'm betting that they won't pay a lot of attention.
This is the mind set I'm talking about stoned-baby, the people Alf talks of. And they are on bluelight aswell, thinking they are invincible.

 

[5-HT2]

Lots of people fuck themselves up on alcohol. Just look at the number of college freshmen who go to the emergency room for alcohol poisoning. Look at the emergency room admissions for amphetamine and methylphenidate, more prevalently used drugs which IMHO are more dangerous to MDMA because the threshold for overdosing is generally lower. Let the public have drugs that are pharmaceutical quality, and if they fuck up, tax them to pay for the health costs.

 

[Alf]

Originally posted by 5HT-2:
Let the public have drugs that are pharmaceutical quality, and if they fuck up, tax them to pay for the health costs.
Whatever money they decide to raise by taxing legal drugs is NOT going to go to paying for the health costs of the people who abuse substances. It might go towards abuse prevention, it might go towards spending to prevent terrorism (at least in the US) but in the end, the people who pay for government-funded hospital visits for drug fuckups are you and me.

 

[stoned_baby]

i agree with 5ht-2, people fuck up all the time, on legal and illegal drugs. Drugs do create addictions in themselves, especially more addictive ones like heroin and nicotin, but there are also a lot of addictive personalities walking around looking for something to get hooked on. Alcohol, speed, painkillers or whatever they can get their hands on that will easy their emotional pain for a while.
MDMA is at least in this aspect one of the most benign drugs, taken on a daily basis it loses almost all of its effects, the addict would have to look for something else in two weeks time.
And whats all this talk of expensive hospital costs? People burned out on E should consider themselves VERY lucky if they even get their can of Prozac sudsidised by governement money (at least in my country).

 

[WDove25]

At least the people reading this and other harm reduction sites have an awareness of that MDMA CAN be harmful with irresponsable use.
-stoned_baby
This is definately true...but I think what Johny Boy is trying to say, besides to the original posting about statistics, is that many people even on bluelight don't accept the fact that MDMA IS harmful even with RESPONSIBLE use...not just CAN be harmful with irresponsible use...ya know? So I guess, for myself anyhow, it's just determining whether or not the present high you get is worth the possible risks and damage we haven't yet seen of the future, those we will only find in time.

To be honest I'm not even worried about dieing, I'm more worried about the state my brain will be in when I hit 50.-Johny Boy
I think that's very insightful...I think that all of the problems it could do to one's mental health after not even necessarily an excessive use would be worse than dying in itself...which I'm sure is also more likely-however, I haven't yet obtained statistics about severe brain damage from use of X so if anyone knows about that I would appriciate a response!...but I don't think anyone knows that yet really! Now, if you would, imagine your personality completely washed out,your future hit by a train, your not even yourself anymore because of the complete changes and damage you might be putting your brain through...pretty scary, huh? But...does it stop you? No, I really doubt it does...it hasn't stopped me anyway, and I have even seen that very situation unfold before me. I think it's simply that we believe we will be ok, right? Sure we do...we know all of these negative that COULD happen to us, right? We just figure it wont, right? Seriously you guys...what really are the chances? WE DON'T KNOW! To me, chances SEEM low even though I don't really know at all...but that's a reason why I'm not too worried about it...not in denial,by far, but simply not worried, because I figure the chances are more than likely low, and I'm ready to take the risk. I am definately an advocate of moderation though. Anyways, I guess that's about it...simply put, one should always ask themselves if the risk they think that MDMA has is worth the damage it may or may not bring, which I believe Jonhy Boy is trying to say about so many people not doing that...so many people trying to rationalize so they feel more safe about it...which I believe, and I'm sure he does too, should not be the case at all...but moreover taking into mind whether or not the risks are worth it to them or not. Thanks for reading!

 

[Infinite Jest]

Alf: I guess we're coming from different perspectives, reflecting the difference between the European/USA experience of MDMA. I've done most of my pilling in the UK, and E is almost socially acceptable there - at least within the younger age group. So there's less legal risk from using it - no workplace or school drug tests (my middle-aged boss even asked me what drugs I did, and had a nice chat about them). It's so easy to get hold of, as well - making it legal would not make it easier to get. So I guess from my perspective anyone who was going to mess themselves up on E is already able to do so.
As for long-term damage: who knows? I think we can say that MDMA use doesn't cause catastrophic problems in middle-age. (e.g. - British mental hospitals aren't full of ravers from the Second Summer of Love, there's no hard evidence of major cognitive decline in these people - though I think the evidence for minor damage is quite strong).
What worries me, and what we won't get an answer to for another 30 years or so, is whether use of MDMA in adolescence or as a young adult has any effect on mental decline in old age. I'm thinking especially of Alzheimers. We know that anti-oxidants can help prevent or delay the onset of Alzheimers, and given that they also protect against neurotoxic damage from MDMA, I wonder if MDMA abuse might increase one's chances of Alzheimers? (Pure speculation, I am not a doctor).
(Big lesson: get lots of vitamins into you - eat plenty of fruit and veges, take supplements - it will help )

 

[illimex]

while it is true that many people seek places like bluelight as a haven for information that supports their use of ecstasy, I am glad that they have places to go in order to find out the truth and new information. While some may be fooling themselves into thinking ecstasy is safe, it is better than approaching the drug with no knowledge other than that from their local drug dealer. With false information floating around like "ecstasy has heroin in it" and "ecstasy is a drug coctail" i think it would be far better that a person comes to bluelight and discovers at least some truths, instead of thinking "hey! ecstasy is supery dupery good, and it only has a smidgen of heroin in it! now where can I get some REAL heroin!?!?!" or other such things.
Be safe.

 

[stoned_baby]

As for long-term damage: who knows? I think we can say that MDMA use doesn't cause catastrophic problems in middle-age. (e.g. - British mental hospitals aren't full of ravers from the Second Summer of Love, there's no hard evidence of major cognitive decline in these people - though I think the evidence for minor damage is quite strong).
One thing that ive been looking for for a long time but not came across is some comparative statistics of use of antidepressents between MDMA-users and neutral control groups. If E is such a nasty toxin as some would have it, why is not goverment propaganda telling us that all E-ers end up as depressives munching Prozac, backed up with some cold hard statistics?

 

[stardragon]

Simon:

I wonder if MDMA abuse might increase one's chances of Alzheimers?I thought there was a genetic predisposition (flaw, I guess) necessary before one could be susceptible to Alzheimer's?