Shimmer.Fade
Bluelighter
Who cares? Pretty sure most flags are made in China nowaday
Flag desecration, and how about it?
- Thread starter Bardeaux
- Start date
the irony of this statement must be completely lost on you? then again, you recently admitted to just trolling in here so why anybody would believe anything you say is a question.
i can only speak for myself but i don't think that anybody in here denies that there are valid, defensible reasons for limits to the amendments.
we're discussing whether burning the flag should be an exception to the freedom of expression guaranteed by the first amendment. some of us believe it should not be because that completely and utterly misses the point of the amendment and of the freedoms for which the flag stands.
alasdair
nuttynutskin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 10,736
Lol... And what exactly did that accomplish? Sounds like a productive use of your time.
Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
True, but should limits to the amendments serve a practical purpose, or be an emotional decision?
quiet roar
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,990
Fully understand the theory behind why flag burning shouldn't be illegal but sometimes I think it's ok for governments to take a practical approach. And it's ok for it to be an emotional decision, too.
Would banning flag burning really make the US a worse place to live? Who would be actually be affected by it being banned?
It's ok for some things to be seen as sacred, even if it defies strict logic.
Would banning flag burning really make the US a worse place to live? Who would be actually be affected by it being banned?
It's ok for some things to be seen as sacred, even if it defies strict logic.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
Children are scared, flags are not.
quiet roar
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,990
^^ But they kind of are to some people. Just like religious stuff is to some people.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
Emotional 100%. 99.9% I fall on the side of logic, but in this case I fall on the side of patriotism. You guys will have your way once all the vets from major wars are gone and other people that understand what this country truly stands for die off imo
what does this country truly stand for? constitutionally protected freedoms? like the freedom to burn the flag? that kind of thing?
the ultimate arbiter of what is right - the us supreme court - has ruled that burning the flag is protected by the first amendment. "It is poignant but fundamental that the flag protects those who hold it in contempt.". fundamental, they say.
if one truly believed in freedom and logic, one would support it.
alasdair
the ultimate arbiter of what is right - the us supreme court - has ruled that burning the flag is protected by the first amendment. "It is poignant but fundamental that the flag protects those who hold it in contempt.". fundamental, they say.
if one truly believed in freedom and logic, one would support it.
alasdair
Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
But what did those vets fight for, exactly?
Plain nationalism? Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were quite nationalistic too. Why was it so important to defeat fascism?
Not to go all Godwin-y, but I'm reminded of a sinclair lewis quote....
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
Almost every other country has laws in its books against flag desecration. It is a abhorrent act and I would venture to say 99% of the people that desecrate the U.S. flag have no idea about how lucky they are that they were born here and not in n Korea or Scotland ffs. They have no idea what the flag means and what it stands for. I could rant about anti american liberal textbooks but I'll leave that for another day
which is why it's important that america doesn't just fall into line. what an odd comment, from you, droppers? we should do it because everybody else does? i think it's more important that america leads the world on this issue by demonstrating it believes in freedom and doesn't just pay it lip service like these other freedom-hating, non-murica countries...
it is. absolutely. that's why it's especially important that people are allowed to do it.
ridiculous claim not based in fact.
maybe they totally understand what the flag stands for? maybe you're just assuming and have absolutely no idea? even if they do have no idea, they still get to to burn the flag because it's their right. why do you want to remove people's constitutionally protected rights, droppers?
"It is poignant but fundamental that the flag protects those who hold it in contempt."
alasdair
almost every other country? let's just call bullshit on this claim right now. there are about 195 countries these days. so "almost every other" would be what? 180? 175 if we're being generous?
do some research and give me the list of 175 countries in which flag desecration is against the law. if you can't or won't) back up this claim, we'll just assume you made it up?
here are some other countries where it's not illegal:
australia
belgium
canada
denmark
norway
united kingdom
and here are some countries where it is illegal:
china
iraq
saudi arabia
way to go, droppers, you'd like the u.s.a. to get in line alongside these countries famed for their love of freedom?
lol.fail.
alasdair
Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
.....where they hang you for flag desecration.
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Deleted member 210577
Bluelight Crew
I think the fact people see it as OK to burn in protest (in the USA/UK) shows how far we've slid in the past 2 generations to be honest. No real pride in ones nation any more, which is perhaps justified given the sorry state of things and our actions as a nation in recent times. But we seem to have dropped the pride altogether.. it's more fashionable to be "anti-establishment" than it is to have a vein of nationalism running through you, despite the fact nearly everyone is totally dependent on the state in one way or another.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
The countries listed couldnt care less about individual freedoms as they demonstrate that with their massive nanny states/government structures based on limiting personal freedoms. Notice how they are all extremely progressive countries that follow your general mind set about nationalism/caring about ones country. Those places dont so much care that it is a freedom rather that it is a overall statement of their political agendas. I could go into a speculative one world government rant about the UN but I will spare you. There are limits to every amendment including the second so we will leave at we will agree to disagree. Like I said earlier your mindset may become the dominant one as people that fought in major wars die out and millennials with their culture take over most things.
qft. I think these things come in waves you had the hippies and now you have these occupy basement dwellers.
Shimmer.Fade
Bluelighter
More bullshit. Droops the impression you give is one of never having been outside the US. The US does have more or less everything one needs, but you should really stop pretending to understand places you have never even visited.
All the prettily worded laws in the world don't mean shit when the police/NSA/DHS/FBI/CIA/etc... arbitrarily decide which laws they will follow and which laws they will change.
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i'm proud of the fact that, on this issue, the u.s.a. puts its money where its mouth is and says "that act makes my blood boil but i support your right to do it."
"It is poignant but fundamental that the flag protects those who hold it in contempt."
alasdair
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
This one time and only this one time I will admit I am simply being contrarian. Knowing everything you know about me ali I figured you would know where I stood but I guess I am pretty hard to read at times. And while I would attack anyone I saw doing it I would never agree with a law against flag burning. I will say as far as the mind set leaning towards nationalism dying out as the older generations die is on point though.