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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

First time meth use and opiates?

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Why did you even join this website, man? Clearly you know everything and everyone else is a retard. Neither I, nor anybody else on here knows anything about drugs. I wish I knew you earlier, man, maybe you could have cured my downs syndrome. 8)

Congratulations, you win at bluelight, the internet, and life in general.

Your statement saying that heroin and meth are far superior to morphine/adderal does NOT mean they are more addictive. Saying they are better is a subjective statement; an opinion. The likeability of a certain substance is not directly correlated to the severity of its addictive tendencies..

The pharmacology of heroin and morphine is identical except the two acetyl groups increase the lipid solubility of the heroin molecule, and thus the molecule enters the brain a bit more rapidly. The additional groups are then detached, yielding morphine, which is what causes the subjective effects of heroin. Therefore, the effects of morphine and heroin are identical except that heroin is slightly more potent and acts slightly faster.
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BrokedownPalace said:
Why did you even join this website, man? Clearly you know everything and everyone else is a retard. Neither I, nor anybody else on here knows anything about drugs. I wish I knew you earlier, man, maybe you could have cured my downs syndrome. 8)

Congratulations, you win at bluelight, the internet, and life in general.
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I never claimed to know everything. There are plenty of things I don't know in life. And I joined this website mainly because I do drugs, and lots of them.

I never claimed that no one here knew anything about drugs...I'm sure you know lots about drugs.

Now, what statement about drugs have I made that has been incorrect?
 
Heroin:
220px-Heroin-2D-skeletal.png


Morphine:
200px-Morphine-2D-skeletal.png


As you can see they are near identical, with the exception of the two acetyl groups on the heroin molecule. Heroin is a pro-drug of morphine.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
Heroin:
220px-Heroin-2D-skeletal.png


Morphine:
200px-Morphine-2D-skeletal.png


As you can see they are near identical, with the exception of the two acetyl groups on the heroin molecule. Heroin is a pro-drug of morphine.
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Totally irrelevant and clearly a HUGE logical flaw...your knowledge of chemistry is very basic and wrong. Just because two substances are similar chemically does NOT mean they are the same. SMALL changes in a chemical structure can result in HUGE differences in molecules.
 
LogicAndReason said:
I never claimed to know everything. There are plenty of things I don't know in life. And I joined this website mainly because I do drugs, and lots of them.

I never claimed that no one here knew anything about drugs...I'm sure you know lots about drugs.

Now, what statement about drugs have I made that has been incorrect?
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You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, seriously. It's not even close to the same beast. And morphine is not even close to heroin either.

That is incorrect. Which I proved, using accurate information. Your 'introduction thread' illustrated the finer points of your beliefs, quite well. That's all I need to know.
 
LogicAndReason said:
Totally irrelevant and clearly a HUGE logical flaw...your knowledge of chemistry is very basic and wrong. Just because two substances are similar chemically does NOT mean they are the same. SMALL changes in a chemical structure can result in HUGE differences in molecules.
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When the fuck did I say they were the same? I am merely pointing out they are indeed VERY similar compounds. NOT identical, obviously.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
When the fuck did I say they were the same? I am merely pointing out they are indeed VERY similar compounds. NOT identical, obviously.
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But as I stated to you, SIMILAR compounds chemically can be COMPLETELY different. That is your flaw. Even just adding an oxygen atom, for example, to a molecule with 20+ atoms can COMPLETELY change the compound.

BrokedownPalace said:
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, seriously. It's not even close to the same beast. And morphine is not even close to heroin either.

That is incorrect. Which I proved, using accurate information. Your 'introduction thread' illustrated the finer points of your beliefs, quite well. That's all I need to know.
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That statement was made about the effects of heroin vs the effects of morphine. Of course they are "similar" chemically. THAT IS IRRELEVANT. Being similar chemically is close to meaningless. The effects of heroin are FAR more intense than the effects of morphine.
 
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In a study comparing the physiological and subjective effects of heroin and morphine administered intravenously in post-addicts, the post-addicts showed no preference for one or the other of these drugs when administered on a single injection basis. Equipotent doses of these drugs had quite comparable action time courses when administered intravenously, and on this basis there was no difference in their ability to produce feelings of "euphoria," ambition, nervousness, relaxation, drowsiness, or sleepiness. Although the heroin abstinence syndrome was of shorter duration than that of morphine, the peak intensity was quite comparable for the two drugs. Data acquired during short-term addiction studies did not support the statement that tolerance develops more rapidly to heroin than to morphine. These findings have been discussed in relation to the physiochemical properties of heroin and morphine and the metabolism of heroin. When compared to other opioids — hydromorphone, fentanyl, oxycodone, and meperidine — post-addicts showed a strong preference for heroin and morphine over the others, suggesting that heroin and morphine are more liable to abuse and addiction. Morphine and heroin were also much more likely to produce feelings of euphoria and other such subjective effects when compared to most other opioid analgesics.

SOURCES:

W. R. Martin 1 and H. F. Fraser 1

1 National Institute of Mental Health, Addiction Research Center, U. S. Public Health Service Hospital, Lexington, Kentucky

Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol. 133, Issue 3, 388-399, 1961
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Again, your opinion on whether or not heroin is more intense than morphine is exactly that, an opinion. In a blind study they are very, very close to one another regarding effects. This has also been my experience in real life. Identical? NO. Damn near? Yes.


Please provide studies/verifiable information stating otherwise.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
So educate me then. I'm genuinely curious to hear your explanation regarding how different heroin and morphine are.

Since you are blatantly insulting my intelligence, by all means, please inform me of the proper information.
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Sure, here you go. To be honest, I'm not very familiar with morphine, but I am familiar with heroin. Either way, to my knowledge, heroin is FAR more euphoric than morphine and (I believe, although this could be wrong, lasts longer as well.) When something is FAR more euphoric AND lasts longer, it is FAR more addictive. Basically, the effects of heroin are better in every way...so of course it's more addictive.
 
My man, what is so hard to grasp about the fact that that is your opinion? Just because your opinion is one thing or another, does not make it automatically correct. You said yourself that you are not familiar with morphine. So how can you make an accurate assessment stating one is better, when you only have experience with one?

I clearly and concisely cited sources regarding the similarities of the morphine and heroin high. If you have some other studies you can cite, by all means post them. Until then, you aren't going to win this argument.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
My man, what is so hard to grasp about the fact that that is your opinion? Just because your opinion is one thing or another, does not make it automatically correct. You said yourself that you are not familiar with morphine. So how can you make an accurate assessment stating one is better, when you only have experience with one?

I clearly and concisely cited sources regarding the similarities of the morphine and heroin high. If you have some other studies you can cite, by all means post them. Until then, you aren't going to win this argument.
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The problem with your source, mainly, is that it ASSUMES injection as a ROA. There are plenty of ROAs other than injection. Furthermore, I fail to believe that study that "heroin" and "morphine" are the same...I mean, there are "sources" out there that claim that nicotine is actually the most addictive drug. A "source" or a "study" can claim almost anything...that doesn't make it true.

Furthermore, the part about tolerance is irrelevant...and furthermore, it's a SINGLE time basis...it basically seems like this "study" is showing people two levels of pleasure...for example, one that is maybe 8 on a scale of 10 and then another that is 10 on a scale of 10 and thus assuming (incorrectly), that since people have the same "behavior" based on an 8 or a 10 that they are the same. Of course people are going to want more of an 8, just like they'll want more of a 10.
 
You are one difficult mother fucker, man. What is the point of having this conversation if you refuse to belive anything other than what is going on in that infantile head of yours?

You clearly have all the answers, so seriously, what are you doing on here? You must have ZERO friends and real life, if you really need to come on an anonymous harm reduction website in a feeble attempt to prove you are a genius, to perfect strangers, in order to inflate your ego/self-worth.

You need some help, man.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
You are one difficult mother fucker, man. What is the point of having this conversation if you refuse to belive anything other than what is going on in that infantile head of yours?

You clearly have all the answers, so seriously, what are you doing on here? You must have ZERO friends and real life, if you really need to come on an anonymous harm reduction website in a feeble attempt to prove you are a genius, to perfect strangers, in order to inflate your ego/self-worth.

You need some help, man.
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The problem is I'm right about these things. Here, let me give you an example that hopefully makes sense to you. Let's give one set of patients 1,000$ and another set 5,000$. Obviously, both patients will react the same. Does that mean 1,000 and 5,000 are the same because the produced the same reaction? No

I mean, you're the one with the ridiculous statement that "morphine and heroin" are extremely similar and "virtually identical." Why, then, do people say that oral ingestion of heroin is a complete waste because it turns into morphine right away? Why would it be a "complete waste" if morphine and heroin were the same, like you claim?
 
Again, I never once claimed that heroin and morphine are the same. I said near identical, because they are.

I'm done talking to you man. You have no business being on this website if you have no desire to learn or contribute anything in a positive manner. Coming on here and talking down to everyone because they are not as 'intelligent' as you, is just pathetic.

I'm still waiting for you to explain the differences between heroin and morphine. Anytime you're ready. And not just making some subjective claim that one is BETTER than the other. I'd like to see some facts.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
Again, I never once claimed that heroin and morphine are the same. I said near identical, because they are.

I'm done talking to you man. You have no business being on this website if you have no desire to learn or contribute anything in a positive manner. Coming on here and talking down to everyone because they are not as 'intelligent' as you, is just pathetic.

I'm still waiting for you to explain the differences between heroin and morphine. Anytime you're ready. And not just making some subjective claim that one is BETTER than the other. I'd like to see some facts.
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I already explained the difference to you. The high of heroin is FAR more pleasurable than the high of morphine. I mean, go try both yourself if you don't believe me. If heroin and morphine were similar highs like you claim, then why does everyone on these boards pretty much unanimously agree that "oral use of heroin is a waste because it turns into morphine before it reaches your brain?" If the highs were practically similar, why would it be a waste to turn it into morphine? Why does no one take heroin orally?
 
I HAVE done both, many times, as a matter of fact. And speaking purely of the IV route of adminstration, they are indeed very similar. Comparing IV to oral adminstration is like apples to oranges.
 
Logic any sources to back up your claim? Heroin is very similar to.morphine in effects, I mean there is mo such drug as heroin, it doesn't bind to any receptors, rather is metabolized by monoamine oxidase into morphine.

Dude do you even use drugs? Like saying meth is bad. Like you obviously haven't experienced being s junkie, and I doubt you have done heroin at all talk is taln unless you have experience to back your claims .

And this isn't a bashing site, blirlight is about helping people with knowledge and s polite manner. Being rude and argumentative actual deters people from this site and from using healthy practices. People don't respond to Forceful subjugation. Grow up man, you act like you are 16


And are you serious? You have never shot heroin if you think eating dope is the same as booting dope. Literally eating heroin feels like eating a moderate amount of codeine or hydrocodone, and shooting dope is like nothing. The only thong comparable is shooting dillies, thr rush is amazing, but I still think morphine is the most euphoric opiate. This has been proven time and time again, morphine and heroin caused rats and monkeys to administer re often than any other opiates. And tests have been shown that iv heroin users could not tell a difference between iv dope and iv morphine overall.
 
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BrokedownPalace said:
I HAVE done both, many times, as a matter of fact. And speaking purely of the IV route of adminstration, they are indeed very similar. Comparing IV to oral adminstration is like apples to oranges.
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But I'm not comparing that...I'm comparing oral to oral, snorting to snorting, rectal to rectal...etc.

You're the one stating that IV is the only ROA that matters. And, I don't believe you that morphine and heroin produce the same effects when IVed. You can say what ever you want, however

laCster said:
Logic any sources to back up your claim? Heroin is very similar to.morphine in effects, I mean there is mo such drug as heroin, it doesn't bind to any receptors, rather is metabolized by monoamine oxidase into morphine.

Dude do you even use drugs? Like saying meth is bad. Like you obviously haven't experienced being s junkie, and I doubt you have done heroin at all talk is taln unless you have experience to back your claims .

And this isn't a bashing site, blirlight is about helping people with knowledge and s polite manner. Being rude and argumentative actual deters people from this site and from using healthy practices. People don't respond to Forceful subjugation. Grow up man, you act like you are 16
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Lol, I do meth, and I do heroin. Meth IS bad. Go on, name a popular or even semi popular drug that is WORSE than meth.
 
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