First Cycle - Not sure about it.

Your last injection is in week 15. You take nothing for 2 weeks (16th and 17th) so you start your clomid + nolva on week 18.
 
Wow, i found a site which calculates PCT for you, thats better for me to understand.
I typed sustanon 250 mg (1 at every 4 days) and oral (dianabol) every day for 28days.
After day 105, i give 17 days break and begin PCT.

btw, http://pct.befit4free.net/index.php
 
Cool calculator, it even estimates blood levels and shows you how the steroid accumulates over time.
 
Damn, too much info on the internet.
I'll start my cycle at the end of this month and give myself a month to researches.
I found out that 16 weeks for long esters is too much. 10-12 weeks are recommended.
Also for PCT here's a suggestion;
After the last injection, 4 days later, take 500ui pregnyl (hcg) for 10 days (5000ui in sum)
For Clomid and Nolvadex, starts 2 weeks after your last injection.
If you go for pregnly, you have to start right after the prengly injection. Clomid for 75-50-50-50 for 4 weeks and Nolvadex 40-20-20-20 4 weeks.
 
There are many many ways of doing things. No need for hcg. It can be helpful but don't bother trying it yet.
16 weeks for long esters is too much ? Doesn't make sense... Why would it be "too much" ? People run long esters for YEARS. If someone says something, doesn't mean it's correct...
 
Damn, too much info on the internet.
I'll start my cycle at the end of this month and give myself a month to researches.
I found out that 16 weeks for long esters is too much. 10-12 weeks are recommended.
Also for PCT here's a suggestion;
After the last injection, 4 days later, take 500ui pregnyl (hcg) for 10 days (5000ui in sum)
For Clomid and Nolvadex, starts 2 weeks after your last injection.
If you go for pregnly, you have to start right after the prengly injection. Clomid for 75-50-50-50 for 4 weeks and Nolvadex 40-20-20-20 4 weeks.

If you search long enough you can find whatever advice you want on the net.. Doesn't make it correct..!!!

We've done all this before in other posts in much greater detail, and posted up studys...!!!!! hCG creates further suppression IMO...

As for hCG: I don't understand why anyone would want to create another level of suppression in their HPTA? There is really no use for hCG, it desensitizes leydig cells in your testes to Leutinizing hormone so that when you eventually cease using hCG it takes a while for your testes to become sensitive to your own body's natural LH, thus prolonging your recovery. The use of hCG in males is limited to increasing fertility in HRT such that guys have enough viable sperm for their partners to conceive. When you are "shut down" your testes actually become more sensitive to LH due to receptor up-regulation. All that hCG will do is prolong your recovery......

As for Nolvadex: multiple studies suggest that 20mg/day is the best dosage to boost testosterone production with minimal side effects, this is the dosage pretty much every study published has used. There doesn't appear to be any benefit in going above that unless maybe you are doing a heavy aromatizable cycle. Even then you're better off tapering off everything.

Clomid I'd stick to 50mg, due to the possible side effects affecting your retina...

As far as cycle length is concerned: At about 8-12 weeks gains seem to plateau, it is suggested you then come off, as your gains thereafter are minimal to non existent unless you ramp up the dose (which you WON'T DO, because its your 1st cycle)... My argument is: you've taken 8-12 weeks to get so bloody big, why not stay there a while..lol

Sustanon: Because of the 4 esters attached to the steroid molecule:

Propionate (2 days).. 30mg
Phenylpropionate (2 days).. 60mg
Isocaproate (4.5 days).. 60mg
Decanoate (7 days).. 100mg

There is a possibility of creating a higher plasma spike from the 2 shorter acting esters, which may effect estrogen via aromatase.. Therefore it might be best to lower the dose, and pin more frequently... EOD..?? ..... Maybe every 3rd day... :)
 
So nolvadex + clomid is enough?
2weeks without injection anything would be cool for recovery?
Yes I knew that there were 4 esters which has different time in blood system.
If i go for every monday and friday is that enough? Cuz i don't want to inject dat much.
 
So nolvadex + clomid is enough?
2weeks without injection anything would be cool for recovery?
Yes I knew that there were 4 esters which has different time in blood system.
If i go for every monday and friday is that enough? Cuz i don't want to inject dat much.

Yes 50/50/50/50 clomid and 20/20/20/20 nolva.
3 weeks after last pin because you have a long decanoate ester in there.
Your better injecting sust eod because of the shorter esters, if you want less injections then use e or c.
 
Yes 50/50/50/50 clomid and 20/20/20/20 nolva.
3 weeks after last pin because you have a long decanoate ester in there.
Your better injecting sust eod because of the shorter esters, if you want less injections then use e or c.

The half life of Decanoate is about 7.5 days... You're pinning 100mg of the decanoate compound 2 X /week thats about 128mg of actual tests after the ester weight has been removed, so assuming maximal blood concentrations have been reached prior to cessation of the steroid regime, 15 days should in theory just put you out of therapeutic range..
 
Wow. I read through every response and I will admit that in terms of facts, they are pretty spot on. Good research, and good advice IN GENERAL, but for the OP, I'm thinking perhaps a lot of irrelevant and premature suggestions. This is all just my opinion mind you, but borne of experience. First off:

NEO pretty much nailed the issue to the wall it in his first response. Should you simply ignore every subsequent response and simply implement Neo's first advice, you'll be doing more things right than ninety percent of the entire recreational BB community. Props to Neo. Listening to this guy in general, I'm thinking, is probably wise.

On to business. The only issue I am of differing opinion is with regard to the advice of using longer esters so as to avoid variance in blood level and/or frequent/daily injections. IMO, specifically the opposite is advisable for the newbie - meaning, seek out the shortest ester you can for your first few shots and through your first month. Reason being, should you experience any severe or uncommon sides, upon cessation of use the drug quickly clears your system and you're at ground zed. Say you did a shot on Monday of sustanon, smallish because its your first. The only actual effect you will notice within the first week is how truly edible every, and I do mean EVERY, girl of age looks to you. Your member will respond to someone else's fantasy, you'll be so sensitive lol! But aside from this, you won't notice any of the actual impact it is having on your system. So lets say you go into week three, you hit that fourth sus shot, and then BAM, you suddenly exhibit symptoms of a systemic reaction. Hives, fever, vomiting, etc. are not uncommon. So you cease therapy. Trouble is, things are gonna get WORSE for the next two weeks before they even start to get better, because you havent even gotten the full effects of what you've injected, and won't, for twelve to twenty more days. This can be very problematic if you are one of the unfortunate few who exhibit serious sides. This is the only reason I suggest using a fast acting compound. My advice is start with a test prop shot. Believe me you will understand most of what there is to understand about the way roids make you feel within two days lol! Not only that, if things go bad, you're in the clear in 48 hrs.

One other consideration - while ancillaries are certainly helpful and one may argue, mandatory, I think the suggestions in this regard are WAY overkill. Not so much in terms of effect as in terms of minutia and implementation details. A bit of Arimidex is more than sufficient first time out. In fact, you won't lose function if you forego ancillaries altogether. I seldom use them. Of course I am not taking pro BB doses - which my opinion of the above examples seem more applicable to. In real world terms, twelve weeks on test first cycle = roughly a month of recovery. This is general of course, and is meant as in total recovery. You'll be able to fuck in that third or fourth week even if you never even look at an ancillary. Ok, this compares to never really being completely impotent with proper ancillary usage and LOW DOSE cycling - meaning 400mg/week or less (actually much less than this is almost pointless if you're talking about test). So while I agree with the facts and theories of the above advisors regarding ancillaries, I think your primary concern should be proper diet and lifestyle throughout, as this is much more of a recovery factor than the use of ancillaries is. Just my own .2, but worth considering before you start okay?
 
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Thank you for the long comment!
I enjoyed while reading really, agree on your safer approach!

But I'd like to really use these roids for losing hell of a fat.
My muscle seems fine, but when I go for a vacation (like this week)i gain insanely fat!
I want to get rid of my fat like NOW!
Just don't want to lose my muscle.

My personal trainer recommend me winstrol test enthat.
How is this combo? Really i don't need pounds of muscle, just to get rid of my fat in my first cycle.
I had postponed using sustanon to get lil bit big but now, I'd like to get rid of my fat.
I can naturally build muscle while eating clean but my body restores fat INSANELY.
 
If youre regaining fat that means your diet still isnt right. If you went on juice and lost all that fat, it would just come back when you got off. Diet still isnt right.
 
Yeah maybe you're right.
I know how to gain muscle, how to protect my weight but when it comes to losing fat, I fail.
And when i go to a vacation, I can't continue my routine, when I eat not properly, I gain weight so easily.
My body is too sensitive :/
 
I feel for your mate. I travel a fair bit and I work in a kitchen ( sus chef) so I am surrounded by food 24/7 it takes some serious dedication to stay on course even on vacation. In the end it becomes a life style and you begin to just know how and what to eat on vacation or just every day. Frankly I believe that a scheduled treat or "cheat" is not a bad thing if done in moderation- but like every thing else when you are running a cycle or blasting and cruising it has to be planned. But every one of us face plants from time to time with diet,training ect ect but its not a mistake if you learn from it mate, life is one long learning curve the moment you think you know it all is the day you stop progressing and begin to regress. Cheers mate and good luck with the diet and fat loss!
 
I'll return back to hometown this tuesday. I'll go for a proper diet and aim for the fat loss.
and 15th of november i'll go for anabolics. Is it OK to burn fat with sustanon?
Or do i have to change it to test enthate? Should i add 1 more for weight loss?
I'd like to give 10-12 kg in 3-4 months.
 
I'll return back to hometown this tuesday. I'll go for a proper diet and aim for the fat loss.
and 15th of november i'll go for anabolics. Is it OK to burn fat with sustanon?
Or do i have to change it to test enthate? Should i add 1 more for weight loss?
I'd like to give 10-12 kg in 3-4 months.

You don't loose fat with different estered AAS.... You loose fat with exercise and eating less.... Fucks sake..!!!
 
^^X2 This for the love of god listen to the vets on this board!

Reminds me of nolys a few months back ....Lol

I could state: I believe adipose tissue is androgen responsive and can support lipolytic capacity of cells (fat mobilizing), possibly due to regulation of beta-adrenergic receptor concentrations or cellular activity through adenylate cyclase. The levels of androgens may closely correlate (inversely) with the level of stored body fat. Increased androgens can deplete body fat at a more active rate.. The Androgen/Estrogen ratio is important as high estrogen can counter by increasing body fat.... but what's the point..??



This is where the basic idea of steroids assist in reducing body-fat originated from, but its only a very small part of the picture.. If training isn't optimal, and diet is crap no amount of AAS will do shit for body composition in the longer term...!!!

Hormones exert powerful influences on body fat distribution in humans. Studies under fully controlled conditions in vitro have indicated that cortisol and insulin facilitate lipid accumulation by expressing lipoprotein lipase (LPL). Growth hormone (GH) abolishes this and turns metabolism towards lipid mobilization. Testosterone and GH inhibit LPL and stimulate lipolysis markedly. Cortisol effects are mediated via a glucocorticoid receptor, and testosterone effects via an androgen receptor, the density of which appears to be higher in visceral than subcutaneous adipose tissue. The receptor-mediated effects are probably expressed via transcription of appropriate genes. The female sex steroids also regulate adipose tissue metabolism, but apparently not directly in the absence of specific cellular receptors. Oestrogens seem to exert net effects similar to those of testosterone. These results of cellular studies agree well with invivo studies of triglyceride uptake and turnover in different adipose tissue regions. Furthermore, clinical entities with characteristic disturbances in hormone levels show the expected redistribution patterns.

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/suppl_1/21.short
 
You have a point. The science you can state all day long, you could probably even find a number of articles running counter to the study you just sited. But at the end of the day what sinks in? I donno valid question. All we can do is encourage people to do their own research, share what we know and try to keep the "broscience" to a minimum and stop perpetuating nonsense. The one thing we can push is the tried and true adage " Garbage in is Garbage out" and hope people take it to heart. But thing is, human nature fights this on a daily basis. We are by definition creatures of habit: programmed by nature to seek the safest route of least resistance. It breeds a half-assed approach to a lot of things. I'm just glad to see more people that put the work in. But I digress. I think we need a sticky on Diet, and or a sticky on common sense ( apparently its not common)
BTW thanx for the link interesting reading.
 
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