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Final time shroomin?

^^you have to admit alcoholism isn't the same as other medical conditions.

eating unhealthy is to being an alcoholic
as heart disease is to cirrhosis of the liver

except you might still get heart disease if you eat healthy
you probably won't get cirrhosis if you don't drink like a champ

point is, alcoholism comes down to a CHOICE
 
Don't be so ignorant. Medicine has evolved over the past 50 years to understand it as a physical disease, and it is treated as such. In some people it's alot less of a choice than you realize. Yes choice is involved in recovering from it, just as consciously seeking treatment and following the advice of doctors is involved in recovering from cancer or depression.

Anyway, reguardless, it says NADA about the validity of ideas Watts had about other matters, which should be critiqued on their own merits as ideas, not judged by proxy via their writer's personal problems. Just a sloppy argument technique, worse than the fallacious "argument from authority"... it's an "argument from disease condition." Person had disease X. Therefore everything he wrote must be considered flawed, a-priori. Riiiiiiigt.
 
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Stepping into this thread to valiantly defend Alan Watts.

You can disagree all you want with his claims about the fundamental nature of reality, but you can't refute the fact that this guy has opened doors for me (unless you want to call me a liar, or deluded). He has had a tangible positive effect on the way I think about myself and the world. His interpretation of Eastern philosophies and religions has actually given me practical tools toward achieving my goals.

Alan Watts really is worth listening to.





I will conclude this post by noting, however, that I totally disagree with the suggestion "once you get the message, hang up the phone". That sounds well and good, but you never really do "get the message". Psychedelics aren't about a single message -- they're a continuous journey, and a way of life. Every single time I do psychedelics, I learn something new. It might not be as profound and life-changing as the first message I got, but I don't think I ever come out of a trip without a new insight of even the simplest nature.
 
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DwayneHoover said:
Why do you despise Alan Watts so much? Every time he is mentioned you drag this out to bash him with. You have some sick obsession.
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What the fuck are you on about? I don't "despise" him at all. I liked him enough to read biographies about him. I think the fact that he ended up a "pitiful, desperate alcoholic" (his sons words, not mine) are important. Especially for a guy writing about the "path to inner peace".

So he imagines he is "disproving" them by trudgeoning Watts' personality with some bigoted, ignorant, inhumane, unscientific insults about the nature of alcoholism.

Dwayne, calm down and stop spouting your endless fountain of shit for a second. I havn't said anything but the truth about Alan Watts. The only insults in this thread are the ones you've said about him. Read a biography and learn something about the man and then get back to me.


which should be critiqued on their own merits as ideas, not judged by proxy via their writer's personal problems.

So you'd be happy taking advice on finding inner peace and a joyous life from a suicidal alcoholic? Interesting theory and we could discuss that in another thread but I think it's at least relevant.

Stepping into this thread to valiantly defend Alan Watts.

Nobody's attacking him Apple. He was an alcoholic - I don't think telling the truth about someone is an "attack" on them.
 
Ismene said:
Nobody's attacking him Apple. He was an alcoholic - I don't think telling the truth about someone is an "attack" on them.
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Telling the truth isn't an attack, but you did claim that "whatever 'message' he thought he'd got clearly wasn't the right one". That just sounds to me like you're trying to discredit his entire philosophy, and I wanted to point out that there was some significant value in at least some of his words.
 
That was a reference to his "When you get the message hang up the phone" line. I don't think his entire philosophy is a waste of time - read his advice on reaching inner peace and enlightenment but be aware he ended his life a suicidal alcoholic. (Not that I've got anything against suicidal alcoholics)
 
Quick word on the Alan Watts debate: the guy is one of my favourite philosophers - alcoholism and all, you have to remember that everyone has their flaws, and I'm sure even he would want you to take his later teachings with a pinch of salt - though they are no less valuable. Often times we forget that the people who can give the best teachings and advice are the ones who have trouble following it themselves. Those who can give great teachings and follow them, often forget to share them with others. It's the need to solve their own problems that sometimes leads to people trying to guide others on the right path. Really though I think it's senseless fighting about it and cluttering up an interesting thread though!

Back on topic, I think only you can answer that. The thing is, some people trip just for the hell of it. I started off my psychedelic experiences by doing that, sometimes I was tripping as much as 2-3 times a week for several weeks in a row. Eventually I didn't feel like doing that any more, and now I know for sure when it's a good time to trip. I'm sure the same is true for you. Don't plan out a trip if you don't feel like one after that last trip, but you can definitely have many more equally life-changing experiences, when the time is right though, you'll know! :)
 
@dwayne your guard has gone up big time, maybe there is someone close to you with alcohol problems or something. i appreciate what you're saying but sometimes people, including alcoholics, need a reality check, a quick kick to get them out a rut. Maybe you could also benefit from being more flexible with your perspectives; "i'm right youre wrong" doesn't tend to go down well! keep an open mind man !

as for alan watts, it's often the ones who too hard at something who end up flipping out and going the other way

maybe he was trying too hard to be jesus, and forgot that he was simply human in an imperfect world. and so after that he just got all angry, and drunk

and now the bus i'm on is about to stop
 
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huolesoh said:
@dwayne your guard has gone up big time, maybe there is someone close to you with alcohol problems or something. i appreciate what you're saying but sometimes people, including alcoholics, need a reality check, a quick kick to get them out a rut. Maybe you could also benefit from being more flexible with your perspectives; "i'm right youre wrong" doesn't tend to go down well! keep an open mind man !
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Dwayne gets a little heated at times.
 
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Something just occurred to me.

Ismene said:
[Alan Watts] ended up downing a bottle of whiskey a day while his kids begged him to want to live and he said "There's nothing worth living for".
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I think that it would be very easy to completely misinterpret such a statement coming from Watts himself. Normally, when a person says that there's "nothing worth living for", we assume that they are depressed and feel that their life is a failure, and that they have a generally negative perspective on their own existence. However, I think that this particular statement was more a reflection of a philosophy that Watts had developed over the course of his life, which was essentially that there is no fundamental difference between life and death, and in fact death never actually occurs, and hence it need not be resisted.
 
I think he was pretty depressed tho Apple. He was going into lectures on his last tour pissed out of his mind and falling off the stage.
 
i want to find some fucking mushrooms and get fucked right up but......when is mushy season in victoria.fuck it i might catch a plane to brizzy now and get some gold tops fuck yeah.i had some wierd lookin shrroms in tazzy right i was like at a sick mountin bush doof in tazzie i had some shrooms anyways was like in these bushes away from evryone for like 3 hours i was thinking to myself ow i better go and find my friends so i popped out the bushes and they where like right thier like 10 meters away from me.i did not belhive they where real for like 2 hours or sum shit i thought they were fake then i broke into a car and nearly bashed my friend coz i thought he werent real it was my first time and i had like five of these wierd lookin shroooms and i dont know but like i rally want to take them and find them again im not on as many drugs as i used to be so i reakon i wont have a crazy time like before.lol so yeah anywayse when and where do i find these magical things.
 
i think they sell mushrooms in the supermarkets ????

maybe if u buy some lemon juice as well u can potentiate the F X !!
 
Buy some at the local k-mart, toss em in a jugful of lemon juice and drink that baby down.
 
It could have just been a nihilistic, Nichean epiphany. The alcohol just might have brought out his emotions toward the realization.

@bennyben: best post i've read all week, although you don't find psychedelics. psychedelics find you.
 
FerreNoctem said:
you don't find psychedelics. psychedelics find you.
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I've heard that phrase used many times.

What does it really mean?

That, if you should be using psychedelics, by fate itself, and the good will of God, you will invariably find yourself in possession of them?
 
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