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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

festival death due to " Benzo Fury" ?

No drugs are harmless and that's exactly why they need to be regulated, not sold by criminals.

Here's what I gather happened.

There were two hospitalisations and one death due to drugs within the same group of friends. Presumably the hospitalised victims were able to say what they think they took and that's where the suspicion has come from about benzo fury.

Tragic on all fronts. His parent's response now rings the death knell for benzo fury, which is a huge shame, because I suspect it's not even to blame - it seems like a very safe drug compared to others.
 
Mailmonkey said:
They certainly seem to have broken yours down.
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Sadly it's just how I respond to drugs and what I had to work with to begin with. I just can't feel comfortable with others taking the same risks as me or recommending it to them. Didn't think there was anyone as crazy as me but there seems to be a lot of denial on this board.
 
Ninae said:
Sadly it's just how I respond to drugs and what I had to work with to begin with. I just can't feel comfortable with others taking the same risks as me or recommending it to them. Didn't think there was anyone as crazy as me but there seems to be a lot of denial on this board.
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I'm healthy, I work, i have a family blahblahblahblahblah....

I take lots of drugs.

My rational mind has not broken down.

I'm not dead.

I'm not in denial.

But I'm not as kerrazzzy as you.

Don't lump everyone in with your own experience.
 
Ninae: I personally know of a fair few people who've wrecked their cars (but thankfully not killed anybody) whilst driving on opiates but don't personally know anyone who's done the same on alcohol. I'm pretty sure alcohol has caused the occasional car wreck though cos I wouldn't think trying to extrapolate from the limited pool of people I know of personally to decide whether or not such things are likely to happen or not is overly wise. Perhaps you might consider doing the same with the lack of opiate-related car wrecks you are personally aware of? :)

Transform: The parents' comments were actually quite intriguing. Whilst on the one hand they're saying Benzo Fury/6-APB should be banned they're also apparently keen not to chastise people who use illegal drugs. Perhaps in their naturally (given the tragic circumstances) confused state they also believe drugs are made safer by being illegalised.

Deko: See? Not off-topic at all really. The parents of the dead boy and Ninae seem to be making similar claims about the supposed safer option of banning drugs to reduce harm. Who said EADD threads can never stay on topic? ;)
 
Ninae said:
Sadly it's just how I respond to drugs and what I had to work with to begin with. I just can't feel comfortable with others taking the same risks as me or recommending it to them. Didn't think there was anyone as crazy as me but there seems to be a lot of denial on this board.
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You're entitled to feel this way. You're entitled not to recommend drug use to people. You're entitled not to feel comfortable. You're entitled to think people are in denial.

What doesn't make sense is to go from this to advocating the continuation and extension of a criminal black market in drugs. This does not follow.
 
Having lost both parents to tobacco related illness & a young friend to a drunk driver, I also beg to differ.

Very sad to hear of these fatalities, but surprising that 6-apb should suddenly be impicated like this. My thoughts are with all those affected by the loss. I do suspect that there's morew to it though, perhaps poly-drugs use.

If we take for granted what's being said about certain demographics circulating free, or cheaply, deliberately poisioness pills, & without being too paranoid... This smells like a "false-flag" operation against Legal Highs & Research Chemicals by the feds. The on-going enquiry into media ethics surrounding phone hacking exposes police corruption & links to criminals. Same with the re-opening of the investigaitions into the Stephen Lawrence murder, again Police corruption & close relationships with hardened criminals. Who's to say there isn't some clandestine, underground arm of the authorities that is actively working within drugs scenes around the country, in various different ways, to increase their harm & the negative press associated with their use?

Yeah, I'm paranoid. I read to much, I've seen to much & I trust fucking NO-ONE!
 
Mailmonkey said:
I'm healthy, I work, i have a family blahblahblahblahblah....

I take lots of drugs.

My rational mind has not broken down.

Don't lump everyone in with your own experience.
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Great, you seem to have gotten my point. We all have our own experiences with drugs and shouldn't just assume that will be shared by everyone else. I'm just of the more adventerous type and will be the first to admit my experiences with drugs have been very protected, for no deserved reason, really.

I know there are some who are able to use drugs like opiates in a coddled way, but if you've ever been to a crack house, which has only had the misfortune to happen to me once, and seen the kind of people are there and the lives they live...Most people aren't as far from that as they like to imagine.
 
Ninae, can you clarify your argument? You seem to be saying that the illegality of drugs causes lots of problems (people in debt/people with chaotic lives) and that the answer to this is to...make more drugs illegal.

Shome mishtake shurely?
 
Maybe Ninae sees illegality as some kind of moral judgement rather than simply a control mechanism for the judicial system. I can't understand their argument in any other way. "Bad" is not the same thing as "illegal", Ninae.
 
Yes, I'm afraid the issue is so complex there is no real solution to it. How can you even regulate harmful drugs without making them illegal, sold by criminals, or regulated by doctors, like they are now? Realistically, there seems to be no solution to the problems caused by drugs than getting rid of them alltogether...which no one who uses drugs really wants. So what do you really expect anyone to say?
 
Why can you not regulate drugs? I mean, it's not a great example, but alcohol is regulated. Not particularly well IMO but it is done. Typically we buy booze from places that follow regulations.

Or look at Amsterdam's cannabis cafes.

"Getting rid of them altogether" is pure fantasy, how can you seriously propose that? * Look at US prohibition twenties style. Prohibition simply does not work! People find ways round bans. Quite fucking right too!

Are you aware of the US prohibition fiasco? Have you read about it? If not, it's pretty fucking insulting to come on here and expect a debate. Go and do your homework before wasting people's time!


EDIT * Just to give you the benefit of the doubt, let's pretend that your "getting rid of them" idea was not only fair and sensible, but possible. How exactly would you go about doing it?
 
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Ninae said:
There's a difference between the feelgood drugs like opiates and ecstacy that don't cause physical and cognitive dysfunction and dissociatives, psychedelics, and benzos that do.
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Ninae said:
opiates and ecstacy that don't cause physical and cognitive dysfunction and dissociatives, psychedelics, and benzos that do.
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Ninae said:
opiates and ecstacy that don't cause physical and cognitive dysfunction
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Eh...
 
Well, I don't have any good solution for it. If there was one I think it would have been put into motion a long time ago.

It's not like a moral judgement. I obviously like to indulge in drugs, so how could I even begin to make a moral judgementt? I'm just not happy with some of the risks I've been putting myself through ot the idea that others are going to.

I wish I could be like those hippies who say drugs are all good and there are only positive effects of them, but I'm just not able to fool myself like that.
 
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I don't think there's a single person here in EADD who believes all drugs should be legalised. That's a stupid standpoint to take. But saying that all drugs should stay illegal and the black market, responsible for hundreds and thousands of deaths each year across the world, should continue seems a little bit... Odd...

If proper education and regulation were put in place, the number of deaths from drugs would certainly fall. The amount of "purer" drugs, less cut down with shit, would fall, and drugs would be treated with less stigma.
One step at a time is the way to go. Look at California with medicinal marijuana. People are beginning to think for themselves as far as information on drugs is concerned, or at least it certainly seems that way.
 
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trammies said:
I don't think there's a single person here in EADD who believes all drugs should be legalised. That's a stupid standpoint to take.
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Erm... I may just have to take issue with that standpoint. Cos it's stoopid as well as wrong ;)

Ninae said:
Realistically, there seems to be no solution to the problems caused by drugs...
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There is a perfectly good solution for it proven to work everywere it's been tried so far. It's known as legalisation. Or perhaps starting off with decriminalisation for the sqeamish amongst us. Why do I say legalisation is the "solution" (meaning the best option we have for reducing the harm associated with drug use to the absolute minimum from every angle)? Because the results speak for themselves:

Drug-related crime where decriminalistion/legalisation of one or more drugs is in place: drastic reduction.

Drug-related health complications and issues where decriminalistion/legalisation of one or more drugs is in place: drastic reduction.

Drug addiction levels where decriminalistion/legalisation of one or more drugs is in place: drastic reduction.

Number of people using drugs for the first time where decriminalistion/legalisation of one or more drugs is in place: drastic reduction.

Overall level of drug-use across the board where decriminalistion/legalisation of one or more drugs is in place: drastic reduction.

How does that compare to similar indicators of succesful drug policy under prohibition in any country in the world? There's good reason that legalisation is finally on the table in many countries around the world these days and already in place (to varying degrees) in several already :)
 
Ninae said:
Yes, I'm afraid the issue is so complex there is no real solution to it. How can you even regulate harmful drugs without making them illegal, sold by criminals, or regulated by doctors, like they are now? Realistically, there seems to be no solution to the problems caused by drugs than getting rid of them alltogether...which no one who uses drugs really wants. So what do you really expect anyone to say?
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For me your whole approach is flawed as is the current system of selective prohibition based on little other than money and current social convention.

All and I mean all drugs have their dangers, Paracetamol is seriously dangerous for s simple example, 16p a packet at the supermarket, the current system isn't based on harm reduction both alcohol and tobacco could easily be said to be significantly more harmful on a number of different levels than other illegal substances.

The current system is not only a total hypocrisy it is causing harm in so many ways, adulterated drugs being distributed probably being one of the worst for the end user and crime being generated in society for those that get in deep with harder drugs effects the public at large let alone what happens to some of the money further up the chain.

It's so clear to anyone who looks at the situation that we need to step back and approach the whole thing from a new more logical and less emotive angle that seeks to limit the damage to society as a whole whilst maintaining peoples freedom of choice. I don't have all the answers I'm certainly not advocating making all drugs legal and obtainable tomorrow, of course we did have some experts working for the government on this very subject........remind me what happened to them ??
 
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