Feminism

[doofqueen]

ahem... ok so now that i'm not so stoned

Access to childcare and sufficient parental leave (both maternal and paternal.) are very important issues, but apart from the leave granted during late pregnancy and birth these are issues that are not exclusive to women. I know plenty of men who 'juggle' a career and fatherhood, perhaps women need to stop allowing their partners to load them up with all the parental work so they too can easily 'juggle' both motherhood and their career.

Doofqueen, I thought better of you then to make such old fashioned presumptions about the delegation of care.

I did state earlier that i think "maternity" leave should not be a gender issue and that if the father is the one that stays at home to be a stay at home dad he should get the same benifits etc

You've put this in a pretty inflammatory and er.. limited way, but I can see where you might come from... the presumption that bearing offspring immediately makes someone deserving of social welfare is a little concerning, having kids is often something one has control of and if you are not in a position to be able to support children I feel it is irresponsible and indeed selfish to bring them into the world. Doubtless there are exceptions, but I'd be hard pressed to buy many of them.

I would like to think that i do not fall under this category. I am on social support but i certainly didn't get pregnant to live this lifestyle (and no i don't think anyone accused me of doing so just to add) I just always feel that people look at me this way. I was partnered when i had a child and only got on support when we split up and i was left to do it on my own. I don't like the situation i'm in but i'm changing that. Slowly yes but it's changing. I don't believe that just cos you give birth to someone the rest of society should support you but i'm grateful that the support is there none the less.

 

[Innocuous]

I would like to think that i do not fall under this category. I am on social support but i certainly didn't get pregnant to live this lifestyle (and no i don't think anyone accused me of doing so just to add) I just always feel that people look at me this way. I was partnered when i had a child and only got on support when we split up and i was left to do it on my own. I don't like the situation i'm in but i'm changing that. Slowly yes but it's changing. I don't believe that just cos you give birth to someone the rest of society should support you but i'm grateful that the support is there none the less.

I don't pretend to understand what led you to become a mother, apart from say.. sex? So I won't judge your decision individually. I don't think many women actually think to themselves: 'hey, I wanna get knocked up so I can bludge off the government!'

I think rather alot of girls come to a point in their life where they feel things are too hard/their life has no meaning/direction and rather then actively pursue a career or further their education, they give up and get pregnant. Then as a mother they have an identity, they have an excuse to stop striving to achieve anything more exciting then toilet training and screaming on the sidelines of their children's soccer matches. Its pathetic.

But essentually women will continue to opt out of society and any opportunity to further their lives so long as it is easier for them to do so then it is for them to succeed. You tell someone they have no skills other then raising children and washing dishes for long enough and its bound to sink in.

Women should become mothers because they choose to, not because they gave up trying to be something more, or because laws or questionable morality prevented them from haveing a choice at all. No child should be born as a subsitite for his mothers life, a creature through which she might attempt to live vicariously through. Nor should any woman belive she has nothing greater to offer the world then her genetic material.

I guess womens inability to imagine themselves as more then what they are is one of the issues that holds us back. Women can be so much more then daughters, wives and mothers, its just a question of convincing them of that.

 

[CuPillar]

Feminism = "Lovage"

 

[ayjay]

I can't believe no-one's said the "P" word yet...

...you know; Patriarchy.

I think of myself as pro-feminist, and feminism as women's action to deconstruct patriarchy.

Patriarchy being a term to describe a value system where certain ideas and activities are of higher worth than others, and that these high worth ideas and activities are generally associated with being male.

In some parts of the world, we have progressed to the stage where being female doesn't always exclude you from high worth ideas and activities (women can vote, be in politics, succeed in business - ignoring the glass ceiling for now ). In many parts of the world, this is not the case.

The real challenge is to shift the paradigm - actually make some changes about what is deemed worthwhile. We haven't made much progress here...

Of course, using a feminist perspective to articulate change is only part of the picture - but it's still very relevant and important.

 

[doofqueen]

I don't think many women actually think to themselves: 'hey, I wanna get knocked up so I can bludge off the government!'

The thing is that there ARE alot of people that do do this and I didn't think it actually happened until I moved into the area that I now live in. It's really depressing. I guess because i'm aware that it happens and being a teen mum I get paranoid that people look at me this way aswell. I know I shouldn't care but I hate it when people think things of me that are not true.

I think rather alot of girls come to a point in their life where they feel things are too hard/their life has no meaning/direction and rather then actively pursue a career or further their education, they give up and get pregnant. Then as a mother they have an identity, they have an excuse to stop striving to achieve anything more exciting then toilet training and screaming on the sidelines of their children's soccer matches. Its pathetic.

Agree to this aswell BUT I don't think "just" being a mum (which has been talked aboit earlier) is any less of a 'career' than anything else that you get paid for. Feminism to me is about choice.

I guess womens inability to imagine themselves as more then what they are is one of the issues that holds us back. Women can be so much more then daughters, wives and mothers, its just a question of convincing them of that.

Agreed

 

[Doppelganger]

I don't pretend to understand what led you to become a mother, apart from say.. sex? So I won't judge your decision individually. I don't think many women actually think to themselves: 'hey, I wanna get knocked up so I can bludge off the government!'

I think rather alot of girls come to a point in their life where they feel things are too hard/their life has no meaning/direction and rather then actively pursue a career or further their education, they give up and get pregnant. Then as a mother they have an identity, they have an excuse to stop striving to achieve anything more exciting then toilet training and screaming on the sidelines of their children's soccer matches. Its pathetic.

But essentually women will continue to opt out of society and any opportunity to further their lives so long as it is easier for them to do so then it is for them to succeed. You tell someone they have no skills other then raising children and washing dishes for long enough and its bound to sink in.

Women should become mothers because they choose to, not because they gave up trying to be something more, or because laws or questionable morality prevented them from haveing a choice at all. No child should be born as a subsitite for his mothers life, a creature through which she might attempt to live vicariously through. Nor should any woman belive she has nothing greater to offer the world then her genetic material.

I guess womens inability to imagine themselves as more then what they are is one of the issues that holds us back. Women can be so much more then daughters, wives and mothers, its just a question of convincing them of that.

This post is an assumption and nothing more. An assumption that a lot of women have children because they've given up...

I'm not going to deny that many women who have children born outside of the social norm, are still finding their path. But to say that most of them have given up just proves you're quite ignorant on the topic.

Sure, some mums don't return to the work force until their child is about five, but the majority are actively doing something to better their career by the time the child is aged two. And quite a few, by the time the child is one. Your post must be based on a very small minority?

God I love intelligent fools!

 

[Innocuous]

This post is an assumption and nothing more. An assumption that a lot of women have children because they've given up...

I'm not going to deny that many women who have children born outside of the social norm, are still finding their path. But to say that most of them have given up just proves you're quite ignorant on the topic.

Sure, some mums don't return to the work force until their child is about five, but the majority are actively doing something to better their career by the time the child is aged two. And quite a few, by the time the child is one. Your post must be based on a very small minority?

God I love intelligent fools!

There seem rather a disrepency between what you argue against and what I argued... but I'll humour you.

Indeed I do think rather alot of girls (not most firepants, just more then indeed there should be) choose motherhood for the wrong reasons. Not in your expirience hu?

Perhaps you are isolated from the less affluent and less educated, I envy you. Unfortunately though, the equality that much of Australia takes for granted hasn't quite reached the lower echelons of society. Perhaps you should visit us babydoll? Maybe then you can respond on this subject with authority rather then beautiful if misplaced idealism. I wish you were right, it would be ever so much nicer if you were.

As for work return rates... many women do return to work, in fact some only leave for a few months. Were I ever to have children that would be what I would do. I don't for a moment suggest that having a child is giving up (how absurd) merely that many women have a child because they have given up. I speak not of women who have a career, aspirations, opportunities.. but of those that do not have those things, and further delay pursuing those things by childbirth. Read what I wrote lumpkins, its rather clear.



Now darling, before you respond take a deep breath and let it out. This is not a shit fight, its a discussion, perhaps you should keep your infantile stabs at my intelligence to posts you make in the lounge, kinky though it is to see kat with the big nasty edit stick.

doofqueen: No of course, I agree. Feminism is about choice. And being a stay at home parent should certainly feature as one of those choices.

Its just that for some women making the fabulous choice of motherhood is a little like choosing which of ten identical lollies to buy in the only lolly store within 10 days drive.

 

[Raz]

lol....I am so gonna start calling Doppelganger Firepants from now on...

 

[doofqueen]

^^^ hehe

I can't believe no-one's said the "P" word yet...

...you know; Patriarchy.

I think of myself as pro-feminist, and feminism as women's action to deconstruct patriarchy.

Patriarchy being a term to describe a value system where certain ideas and activities are of higher worth than others, and that these high worth ideas and activities are generally associated with being male.

In some parts of the world, we have progressed to the stage where being female doesn't always exclude you from high worth ideas and activities (women can vote, be in politics, succeed in business - ignoring the glass ceiling for now ). In many parts of the world, this is not the case.

The real challenge is to shift the paradigm - actually make some changes about what is deemed worthwhile. We haven't made much progress here...

Of course, using a feminist perspective to articulate change is only part of the picture - but it's still very relevant and important.

Good post by the way

 

[Doppelganger]

lol....I am so gonna start calling Doppelganger Firepants from now on...

That's so awesome! :D You rock!

 

[tadfish]

you notice there is not malism or manism.
you always need something for something that is weeker.
for all you girls out there can you think of any one thing that a women is better than in the world than a man. eg. any sport, science, job etc.
women have invented like 3 things whiteout(to correct there mistakes), short shorts (great) and windscreen wipers.
ahhh sexiest

 

[lostpunk5545]

I'm guessing you're joking but lame effort nonetheless. I suggest if you really believe that is all that women have achieved, that you get googling, it's a powerful tool for the misinformed.

But here's a start for you:

4000 years of women in science.

Click the links. Shatter your misconceptions.

Besides if it wasn't for a woman you wouldn't exist. Respect it cunt.

And for every thousand things men have come up with that have been helpful for society, and the planet, there's probably a thousand or more things we've fucked up.

 

[tadfish]

so what have woman invented. oh you cn use a search engine could type up anything yourself. cunt, i think thats what you have got.
so i suppose the chicken came before the egg.

trying to get a rise bitch.. hehehe. just wanted to see what someone would say.. but i would like to know why you girls need to make things like feminism.
do you feel Inferior. I think women in most of the western world have more rights than men now days.. and want all the good but none of the bad that comes with all those rights.

Make my dinner!

Hey if i was a girl i would be a les. so blah
does this tread come with tissues?

 

[Samadhi]

Seriously, tadfish, give it a rest.

 

[lostpunk5545]

Presently around 20% of inventors are women (this number is arrived at by the numbers of people of genders applying for patents). Seeing as you can't use google I'll give you a hand fuckface (there's your rise):

How Many Women Inventors are There?

Women Inventors A-Z

Timeline of Women Inventions

Besides those listed in the links the COBOL computer language was invented by a woman, Grace Murray Cooper. And the first scientist to recognise nuclear fission was also a woman, Lise Meitner.

And to answer your question about why feminism exists, you might have to go back to primary school and begin your education again, this time taking notes along the way. Your insinuation that women want all of the good and none of the bad that comes with these rights, is so child-like and pretentious that it doesn't even justify an answer, besides to point out that you're a douche bag.

 

[Benefit]

Feminists give me a rise... in my pants!

In all seriousness though, women basketball players scare me.

 

[doofqueen]

you notice there is not malism or manism.
you always need something for something that is weeker.
for all you girls out there can you think of any one thing that a women is better than in the world than a man. eg. any sport, science, job etc.
women have invented like 3 things whiteout(to correct there mistakes), short shorts (great) and windscreen wipers.
ahhh sexiest

and here ladies and gentlemen is a perfect example of why feminism exsists

 

[kryalkastleE]

can i think of one thing w oman is better at than a man?

yes.
menstruating. having babies. being pregnant. having multiple orgasms.

id like to see a man do that.

 

[zephyr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadfish
you notice there is not malism or manism.
you always need something for something that is weeker.
for all you girls out there can you think of any one thing that a women is better than in the world than a man. eg. any sport, science, job etc.
women have invented like 3 things whiteout(to correct there mistakes), short shorts (great) and windscreen wipers.
ahhh sexiest

and here ladies and gentlemen is a perfect example of why feminism exsists

Not really DQ, that was a perfect example of someone who is not a man.

 

[doofqueen]

^^ well, true .....