• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

feelin' no love - physical or psychological?

This is off topic.. but.. HardNRG.. or Hard Trance actually has very nice, upliftng melodies, that make me feel very happy!!
Kai Tracid - Too Many Times
Cosmic Gate - Exploration of Space
Yoji Biomehanika - Ding A ling
Scot Project - Overdrive
they put the biggest smile on everyone's faces at clubs and raves... and they are often classed as HardNRG or Hard Trance.
So I dissagree.... Any sort of music can indicate you are a happy person. I think your appreciation of music has more to do with how much you understand the mechanics and nuances of a song.
Out of interest.. my favorite music IS uplifting trance. It's not cheesy... its delicately crafted modern day classical.
Pendulum
 
I don't get loved up anymore from pills, I leave that to G *fuck yeah!* I put my lack of love due to my Irritable Bowel Syndrome condition. Whenever I take a pill within an hour my stomach is hurting. I've given the pills up indefinately (for now).
 
hmm mac, y'know in terms of euphoria and empathy, the MDA actually made me feel more like my first few rolls than most MDMA experiences i've had in the last 2 yrs.
dunno how to explain it, just the way i react? more evidence for the physical-basis to personal experience maybe :)
oh and uh dr.beat, i think yr theory is 100% crapola. people are way more complex than that. i could write pages about this but i'm not gonna pervert mac's thread anymore. you should start a new thread on it, would produce some pretty interesting thoughts i'm sure.
[ 20 February 2003: Message edited by: atomica ]
 
haha, its the old physical VS the metaphysical debate
...mind or matter?
i could look at this from both points of view. psychology like this isnt really proven that well, it may be a cognitive prob or a neurological (or chemical) prob, or the 2 could be influencing eachother.
firstly you probably have to keep in mind that everyone is different, everyone has a compasity or tolerance to a certain degrees of abuse of certain substances. some ppl can smoke pot all their life and be perfectly sane... others can smoke for a year and go nuts. everyone is different. it has to do with the chemicals goin round ur head, your environment, your diet etc... (on the physical side). your state of mind in your environment and day to day life also affects the chemical balances, rewarding job, girlfriend etc... more seritonin and dopamine are naturally produced
if you ask me the cognitive and the neurological are linked. there is such a thing as neuropsychology, the physical brain affecting the mental (cognitive self) also
sorry i've sat through many a lecture hearing 'this guy thought this' and 'that guy thought that' many psychologists (and maybe even philosophers) of the past were either strictly one way or another. if you ask one of the more modern guys they try harder to agree, its hard tho cos some of the shit dosent work on paper
did that help or did i miss the point?
[ 20 February 2003: Message edited by: BeatBreaker ]
 
I have to admit... I am a control freak. My g/f will tell you , my friends will tell you & my family will tell you. My Grandfather was the KING of control freaks... **extreme sarcasm** he was kind enough to pass that to my father who was a giving lad and passed it to me (and shit I hate it)
Which leads me to my main point/ arguement (against DR.BEAT) one of my most favourite DJ's is TIESTO.... the man is a master in progressive n uplifting trance. Oh and may I add my most fav' track is "FLIGHT 643" Shit that track gives me goosebumps!!!
*******If control freaks hate uplifting trance how can that track move me (in a happy positive way) so much?
 
mac: i tend to see your problem as partly psychological but more or less physical. on a chemical level each person reacts to MDMA differently, and i would bet that there are some people who have a high tolerance off 20 pills in a year, and others who have the same level of tolerance off 40 pills in a year - the same way some people have a higher constitution than others and the common flu is irrelevant, while for others it is dabilitating(sp?).
to bring back the magic i would recommend discontinuing weed use, if you smoke regularly, and a serious long term break from MDMA, as in 1 year plus. as far as im concerned, in some way shape or form THC and MDMA cause the brain to react in a similar way and consistent use of them both will lead to a high tolerance of both.
as for the psychological issues, youve probably subconsciously worked your state of mind into a loop, you desire the feelings you used to receive from MDMA, yet each time you drop, you are aware, that the last time yielded no such results, and are in turn prepared for a similar result. thus, subconsciously, you are accepting that its never really going to be as good as it used to be, and maybe youre putting too much emphasis on this fact.
i do have more to say - but i dont have time right now ill come back and write some more later :)
dr beat, your comments are naive and uninformed - more later.
 
Dr Beat are you the same person that used to post on RDC about 2 or 3 years ago?
 
CBM, i know where you are coming from as i was in pretty much the same situation.
I took a break from the pills for almost a year and a half because they werent exciting me anymore. after my break they got so exciting i started eating 4 of them every 2 weeks, then after a while i got extremely sick, then they werent exciting anymore, so i stopped and now they are exciting to the stage where i have 1 every so often for special occasions and just for shits&giggles.
as for the lovey feelings, i think it really depends on the setting and the people you are with, but to tell you the truth, around the 3 month of my ecstacy honeymoon, i lost the love... its never come back, so it could be partially chemical as well as psychological.
i wouldnt worry, if you want the love to come back, it will come back when you least expect it :)
Andromeda :)
 
It's threads like this (and countless others!) that make me realise why I like bluelight so much & spend so long wading through what's on offer - well thought out, intelligent (up to and even including dr beat's first reply & the direction things have taken since ;) ) communication between "deadbeat drug users" (read: stupid, illiterate menaces to society the media 'educates' joe public about at every opportunity.)
To put in my 2c about the actual topic (!), after about 4 years of experiences (since the honeymoon ended) that have shifted randomly (at least so it seems) between being amazingly beautiful and just plain sketchy, and knowledge of the mindsets I've been in before/during those experiences, I think it's mainly psychological.
I'm quite sure that physiologically some/a lot of? important circuits in my brain are fucked up, but I blame that more on years of assorted chemical abuse than being specifically from MDMA. I've also suffered depression since long before I ever even dreamed of taking 'ecstacy', so that along with the various regular psych meds I'm on would also contribute to the physiological side, I guess.
Anyway, in the past couple of years I've gone through several periods where I've had a night out that, in terms of the drug experience, sucks arse, and concluded that the party's over for good 'cos my head/soul/whatever just can't handle this shit anymore. But then.. whether it's a week or 3 months later, a night will come out of nowhere that f'n rocks and is just like the old days all over again. I've already said I think this phenomenon is (personally) mainly psychological, but recently I've been suspicious that coming across genuinely good drugs after an extended period of using mediocre 'bathtub-grade' substances can make a huge difference too, so who knows.. bring on prescribed pharmaceutical grade MDMA/meth/[insert drugs of choice here] for "recovering rave addicts" - at least then if we still feel shitty after going out in a great mood, ending up dropping our third blister-packaged 120mg MDMA cap for the night and moaning "it just doesn't work anymore :( :( :( ", we'll know it's physical. ;)
Hrm.. I think a thread on why people who could rarely be fucked posting anything unless they've taken something, and the psychological implications that carries for those people :)/) could be interesting, too :)
Oh yeah, one other thing - while reading Dr Beat's messages, a big flashing *TROLL ALERT* thing kept running through my head.. a rare, relatively literate troll rather than the "fuk all u wanker space cadet fluffy pant pooftas u all suk cock!!!!!!!!" standard, but a troll all the same. I remember him on RDC a while back too, Pekkie, and my (unreliable) memory is that he dangled some bait over there and got a pretty good (and funny) haul, yeah?
I just had visions of some of my old schoolfriends (smart, "computer geeks" [albeit drugfucked], cynical as hell and always happy to start a shitfight on the local chat BBS (those were the days)) who eventually became ravers, were already jaded, and now [insert 'balls the size of ostrich eggs' action movie preview voiceover guy here] god only knows how twisted they've become! :)
Anyway.. I can't help imagining them starting a conversation about how "therapy will make you like candy clothes and happy hardcore" (*rofl!* :D ), and then laughing their fucking arses off every day as they come back to check the bait. I know I would be.. and if I'm right, nice work dude(s). :)
[edit: just fixing up some shitty grammar/phrasing.. always the pedant!]
[ 22 February 2003: Message edited by: lsd303 ]
 
lost the love as in, you dont get 'loved up'? you dont feel empathetic? is that what you mean? if so, i think i can empathise with you to a certain degree, ive been rolling for over 2 years, and i cant remember the last time i felt 'loved up'.
when i come to think of it, i havent had either eye wiggles or a very loved up roll in a long time. i would definately attribute the lack of eye wiggles to tolerance - there is no way i can possibly make my eyes move in that way while not on MDMA, and i just cannot think of how i could psychologically inhibit these movements. that in turn could very well indicate that there is a definate change in how MDMA effects the body over time.
i would say ive lost the love because when i roll the drug alone doesnt often do what it used to. ie, in the beginning, you could drop, and let the MDMA do it all for you - i could have a great night based entirely on the drugs. this is not the case at all anymore, and i cant remember how long it has been since! if the music isnt enjoyable, or theres too little space on the dancefloor, or the people surrounding me are not welcoming, i cant enjoy myself. i think i could go as far as saying, as opposed to opening up my perspective, it actually puts more limitations on my ability to enjoy an event.
i dont ever talk to randoms, and am easily agitated by them (i dont act aggressive or display my dismay but am just annoyed when someone says something stupid to me), and i dont think it even brings out the love that i have for my friends any more than usual. so have i lost the love also?
i think my state of mind has an effect on how well i enjoy my night and how much i enjoy a roll, but id put more money on everything being physical.
was talking to this guy the other night who was on his first pill (probably the first random ive said more than a few words to in a long time), and what seemed to be his first clubbing experience. he was jumping around in that really ecstatic way, just loving the music, saying how great the club/music/people were - and he looked like he was thoroughly enjoying himself, and i cannot remember the last time i felt as carefree as he did.
so in hindsight i think more than anything, tolerance is the killer of the love. CBM, as i said in my earlier post, levels of tolerance in some people are very different from others - you have probably built one up much quicker than your mate. subconscious psychological barriers can be extremely effective, but the MDMA used to override these, and now it not longer can.
 
This has been happening to me lately too. I dfefinitely "peak" - eye wobbles, big pupils, talking shit, general feelings of fucked-up-ness, tingles, heavy breathing, sweating, body "load" ie stomach bit strange feeling the way it always gets, body feels different, head feels kinda full and rushy. BUT NO LOVE!!! Well not none at all but I dont have the rushes of happiness which I love- You know, that physical rush/wave that comes up through your body and feels so good that you get that emotional rush/lift that comes right up to your head and forces you to smile. Ahhhhh just thinking about it is so good. Last 2 times Ive dropped that feeling has not happened.
Other peeps have spoken about how it might be tolerance and yes I do have a degree of tolerance but I have only been dropping every 5-6 weeks (sometimes 8 weeks) and rarely have more than 2 pills. Its only been the last two times that the love failed to appear. If it happens a few more times I will be worried- ATM I think they might have been only average pills which give that slightly stoning, dreggy feeling (White Clovers- not happy with them at all).
 
I am in the same boat. I have been pinging for a bout 2 years, i have had 3 and 4 week breaks over the last 3/4months. i can only remember one time when it was actually good.
but generally speaking the love is lost. i am very concerned about neurotoix damage etc..
i dont think i will ever stop, but the occasions have definately become far less frequent.
 
Babydoc_vic summed up many of my feelings. Anticipation of the occasion and expected company are everything for me; inseparable, yet not excluding of the odd occasional solo experience. Aside from quantity/quality etc, I always know before a roll whether or not it will be magic. I also derive great pleasure from sitting in straight when others are full of empathy and enjoy the perspectives of others in this position when I’m rolling.
Anticipation / Expectation
These days, I won’t usually roll at all if the time has not been planned for. Spontaneous occasions do occur, but the suggestion must be accompanied by an immediate sparkle. This sparkle (a kind of unique heightened anticipation – adrenaline rush) is related o a kind of freedom; knowing the road ahead is clear and uncomplicated, and that nothing important will be adversely affected by the trip. This sparkle is not the same as the jumped up anticipation felt at the thought of a cold beer on a hot day, or a joint of killer bud. It is like an instant but detailed summarizing of the time to follow. At the same instant I am momentarily transported ahead in time to the midst of the occasion. Not so much a vision, as a feeling
It never disappoints and is easy to recognize. I liken it to going away for a holiday. When a holiday is first planned, anticipation can sweep you away; imagination takes you there. This feeling can be as good as when the occasion actually turns out just like you hoped. This “sparkle” is easily dampened by responsibility or commitment, but if I refrain from rolling when I don’t get it, I’m never disappointed.
Over the 14 years or so I've been around E, I’ve found I’ve been able to identify my own “critical mass” plateau; a level different to early experiences when being more out of it equated to getting more pleasure. These days I try to avoid the intoxication feelings as much as possible while still retaining empathy and openness. This “critical mass” for me, is a far lower dose than what is typically claimed in literature, and is possibly more representative of a memory trigger or homeopathic approach. Perhaps it is purely psychosomatic ;)
The psychological/ physiological argument is pointless IMO. In a given instant they are the same. If you are down, it is simultaneously chemical AND mind. Which controls which? The paradoxical answer is either one and in most self redeeming situations the choice is yours. For most people, any lack of inner determination can’t be simply reduced to a single source chemical which is over or under expressed. I find the hyperactive mode of excitement – the natural high from passionate application - is my main redeeming force.
Sorry if I seem a bit metaphysical with this explanation. After growing up in a house practically devoid of love, my speshal partner has taught me how to feel and express love. The ecstasy from rolling together is still as intense as it was in the beginning. So perhaps it is K who’s really responsible for my abundance of empathy ;)
Change and Appreciation
We live on one of the most beautiful beaches of the world, yet it often takes a holiday far away for me to be reminded of the love and appreciation I have for this place. So come party with our mad bunch if you like. After that your old friends may indeed be a welcomed (sane) relief, and without a doubt you will be able to once again evoke that magical sparkle :)
[ 25 February 2003: Message edited by: phase_dancer ]
 
OT: Dr. Beat: I've never ever heard as much bullshit coming from someone in my entire life...
I'm not even gonna respond to anything you've said, because most of it is beyond the highest level of lameness.
On topic: i have noticed that for me the magic goes after i smoke a lot of meth... pills don't feel the same after... I find if I don't have much meth beforehand everything is sweet. I used to pop about 4 pills every weekend, but now slowed down to about 2 every month or a little longer. If the pill is good, I find I get the loved up feeling as well as the whole "put on your arse (in a good way)" feeling. Of course its not the same as when I started and it will never get there, but as long as it stays like this, I am happy.
 
some good discussion generated which was good. for me when i have mdma i dont get loved up and im unable to slip into the 'silly' kind of mood that mdma used to put me in also. i dont smoke cigarettes, or mull, or drink, towards the end there was no polydrug use so it was purely related to the mdma and nothing else.
i wasnt really looking for advice when i started the thread because im not chasing the love, im not like that with drugs, but it has given me some interesting thoughts on the physical vs psycological debate, i think its for the most part physical, but to some degree psycological, which im hoping both will be improved after a long long break :)
[ 25 February 2003: Message edited by: Cowboy Mac ]
 
very interesting reply phase dancer.
In a given instant they are the same. If you are down, it is simultaneously chemical AND mind. Which controls which? The paradoxical answer is either one and in most self redeeming situations the choice is yours.
^ excellent point.
 
Originally posted by Cowboy Mac:
i wasnt really looking for advice when i started the thread because im not chasing the love, im not like that with drugs, but it has given me some interesting thoughts on the physical vs psycological debate
If you are not looking for the love, then no wonder you do not get loved up. All drugs have a honey moon period (the first few pills), and after that all they do is amplify what is inside you.
Melancolic - please tell me where you go out, so I do not go there and have to meet someone as negative as you. Go to therapy - you need it.
Peace, Love, Unity and Respect!
[ 27 February 2003: Message edited by: Dr. Beat ]
 
dr.beat: i meant i am not chasing the love as in im not an idiot having 15 pills a weekend to try to get it back, i do want to feel the empathy again, thats why im on a break.
 
i wrote out a reply but chose not to turn this thread into a flame war. ill not be seen in this thread again.
 
Thank you for raising this Mac. Me and my mates were actually having this same discussion before I had the brilliant idea of consulting the drug taking community.
I have no answers, only more questions. Are the drugs we are taking now not as strong, or is our tolerance going up, or are we thinking about it too much?
My only answer is to not take anything for a while and drink heaps. Good 'ol alcohol.
I took ecstacy last weekend in a vain attempt to get the love back, and, i am sad to say, it didn't work. Was good, but nothing like it used to be.
Mac, if you wanna get wrecked, have no hesitation in giving me a call, come around, and we'll drink til the cows come home.
Maybe my expiry date has come as (maybe) yours has. May be we need to graduate to harder/different drugs to get different love.
Any way, i believe I am out and need different things to stimulate my mind.
Who's up for some Angel Dust?......
 
Top