missmeyet?
Bluelighter
I luuuuv you NeverSickAnymore...
(but that's another thread!)BTW..I just can't shorten your name to NSA...makes me think about being watched and my conversations being recorded!)
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DPMC Moderators: tryptakid
FBI raids alleged online drug market Silk Road, arrests owner
- Thread starter serotonin-system
- Start date
I luuuuv you NeverSickAnymore...
(but that's another thread!)BTW..I just can't shorten your name to NSA...makes me think about being watched and my conversations being recorded!)
webbykevin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,719
The field I get my mushrooms from doesn't appear to be under any kind of surveillance, apart from a few cows, and no money ever changes hands there.
oldirtybizza
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 472
*yawn* expressing ignorance through smug complacency. it's all good dude, geopolitical debate isn't for everyone.
missmeyet?; said:
^ I agree one should embrace cultural differences. I would never stereotype or generalise! all Americans just don't get it when someones taking the piss.
My point was that a common view even amongst many enlightened muricans, is that despite all the negatives the USA is still "better" or "preferable" to other countries. Which is kinda the neo-colonialist attitude that justifies trying to improve other countries through "liberation" and "regime change" . A consumerist western lifestyle is no more valid than a traditional subsistence Islamic one.
And drugs and shit.
I dunno - mandatory life sentences for non-violent, minor drug offences sounds pretty harsh to me. Not as harsh as being hanged maybe but there's not much to brag about. And the US always wins the prize for being the stupid bastard spraying DDT over vast areas of Columbia to try and "get rid of the coca plant".
liftedgift
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2012
- Messages
- 496
This has gotten way off topic, but I'd say more and more US citizens are waking up to the fact that this drug war has to stop. Although we are not a democracy and when we vote for officials its always multiple choice, never fill in the blank.
The picks are already decided. They really have us by the balls and make the citizens think we are in charge.
We are making progress however, marijuana can be sold legally in Colorado starting January with no medical script needed just like alcohol. Even though federally it is still illegal but progress nonetheless.
tyrael
Bluelighter
I've read through the Tor/Onion protocol, it's surprisingly simple yet effective.
There definitely are points of entry/flaw (ie, the greatest vulnerability was the first and last hop to each node on the network. Although data couldn't be read, the IP's could be sourced). Having said that, NO software is free of bugs! Think about this next time you go flying; a software engineering cannot [well should not lol] guarantee a bug free piece of software - error-free software can only statistically be assured!
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
The SR guidelines say that addresses/information passed to a vendor should be deleted upon writing/printing the address/sending the gear. Afaik, it was just a simple message system sending this info back and forth (hence why PGP is recommended) and stored on the sever. So if one had placed and received an order, I wouldn't worry too much (providing the vendor adhered to recommendations), your info should be deleted. However if you had placed an order but hadn't received it, it's quite possible your details are still in the messaging db.
I kind of agree with hexagram though, unless you're a vendor or have an HUGE order (in this state), I'm not too sure how concerned you should be.
I thought this too (I'm obviously no economist but) one would think removing a huge portion from any currency would cause an increase in the value. (same reason why if a country is in debt it doesn't just print a whole lot of money, ultimately it would just lessen the overall value). Anybody able to explain/suggest theories?
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tyrael
Bluelighter
Re: the "War on Drugs", (I can't remember where but) I read in Australia Government are starting to come to their senses and realise this tactic is ultimately a lost cause, it will not work! (Not during the current methodology!)
One would think (re backups). Like I said, ala Wikileaks
I think you'd be surprised how easy it would be to setup another SR (using the exact same underlying network and such - changing things would obviously be more difficult)!
Which is why imo there will be another SR-like service (Tor is an "add-on" to the Onion Routing protocol).
That's true! Apologies if I offended! The original post did just sound a little tin-foil-haty to me! Just wanted to give some perspective (from someone with technical knowledge).
Preferably with a "wipe program". Since when you "delete" some off your PC, essentially all it does it remove a link to the file and mark that section of space as free (to be written over).
+1, Agreed.
Don't do anything illegal using technology really. lol. I'd say although cryptology/obfuscation techniques (since the Caesar's monoalphabetic cipher) have come a very long way, so has the ease of interception.
Or understand the limitations of said technology and create (read: use non-technological) alternatives imo.
One would think (re backups). Like I said, ala Wikileaks
I think you'd be surprised how easy it would be to setup another SR (using the exact same underlying network and such - changing things would obviously be more difficult)!
Which is why imo there will be another SR-like service (Tor is an "add-on" to the Onion Routing protocol).
That's true! Apologies if I offended! The original post did just sound a little tin-foil-haty to me! Just wanted to give some perspective (from someone with technical knowledge).
Preferably with a "wipe program". Since when you "delete" some off your PC, essentially all it does it remove a link to the file and mark that section of space as free (to be written over).
+1, Agreed.
Don't do anything illegal using technology really. lol. I'd say although cryptology/obfuscation techniques (since the Caesar's monoalphabetic cipher) have come a very long way, so has the ease of interception.
Or understand the limitations of said technology and create (read: use non-technological) alternatives imo.
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tyrael
Bluelighter
Re: the "War on Drugs", (I can't remember where but) I read in Australia Government are starting to come to their senses and realise this tactic is ultimately a lost cause, it will not work! (Not during the current methodology!)
One would think (re backups). Like I said, ala Wikileaks
I think you'd be surprised how easy it would be to setup another SR (using the exact same underlying network and such - changing things would obviously be more difficult)!
Which is why imo there will be another SR-like service (Tor is an "add-on" to the Onion Routing protocol).
One would think (re backups). Like I said, ala Wikileaks
I think you'd be surprised how easy it would be to setup another SR (using the exact same underlying network and such - changing things would obviously be more difficult)!
Which is why imo there will be another SR-like service (Tor is an "add-on" to the Onion Routing protocol).
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tweex
Bluelighter
Important to remember DPR was caught using decidedly non-technical means, at least as far as has been shown in court filings.
Now it is possible the NSA has some secret dealings going on with tor that lead the FBI to DPR, and they then subsequently went on an evidence finding mission to dig up enough through other means to charge him, but I think this is implausible.
And...
I mean not to knock Mr. LeBlanc, but the dude was a fucking law clerk until four years ago. I highly doubt he's qualified to defend a case like this properly, especially considering he's probably got a huge caseload ontop of DPR.
DPR's only real shot at seeing the outside of a correctional facility before 2030 at this point is if he can magically make bail next week (and if he has any sense, jump it), or he somehow conjures up a real lawyer. If this case stays federal public defender, he'll almost certainly end up taking a plea for 20-30 years. I doubt he'll see life in prison unless this goes to trial. He'll almost certainly get offered a plea for some multi-decade sentence and accept. This is just how things go when you have a public defender, unless the off chance where the DEA/FBI want more publicity out of taking this case to trial, which is a remote possibility.
Anyone else see the huge irony of a guy who was worth $80,000,000 now represented by a public defender with 4 years experience?
...WELL FUCK, SON.
Now it is possible the NSA has some secret dealings going on with tor that lead the FBI to DPR, and they then subsequently went on an evidence finding mission to dig up enough through other means to charge him, but I think this is implausible.
And...
Oh lawld, DPR is so fucked on the legal defense front. Unless the EFF steps in, which I doubt given the lack of CFAA charges.
I mean not to knock Mr. LeBlanc, but the dude was a fucking law clerk until four years ago. I highly doubt he's qualified to defend a case like this properly, especially considering he's probably got a huge caseload ontop of DPR.
DPR's only real shot at seeing the outside of a correctional facility before 2030 at this point is if he can magically make bail next week (and if he has any sense, jump it), or he somehow conjures up a real lawyer. If this case stays federal public defender, he'll almost certainly end up taking a plea for 20-30 years. I doubt he'll see life in prison unless this goes to trial. He'll almost certainly get offered a plea for some multi-decade sentence and accept. This is just how things go when you have a public defender, unless the off chance where the DEA/FBI want more publicity out of taking this case to trial, which is a remote possibility.
Anyone else see the huge irony of a guy who was worth $80,000,000 now represented by a public defender with 4 years experience?
...WELL FUCK, SON.
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sandytrail
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 26
You are getting the facts wrong.
It is estimated that SR made about USD 80 mil or BTC 600,000 worth of commissions over its entire existence. However, the FBI initially seized merely BTC 26,000. That's nothing compared to the total amount of bitcoins in circulation which is close to BTC 12 mil.
Tyrael, one of my main points posting prior to this one was that since you can rewrite the Transmission Control Protocol AND the Internet Protocol from scratch (Maybe you did, I'm not sure) I thought that you would also know that Tor was open source.
Tor is open source, I provided a link somewhere in this thread.
I'm not having a go, it's just the Aussie way. I admire the fact you have studied networking more than I have, I know of the different layers, and of course, haha, the human element of networks is the most vulnerable. I don't know what news you've been reading, probably from the same sources I have, but the U.S. government wanted a backdoor put into the HARDWARE so they could eavesdrop easily. Not software on you computer, or phone, but on the actual, physical machines that drive the network. Like your home router, and the ISP's massive, beyond my level of understanding's load balancing, switching and of cource, translating devices. They don't need access to Microsoft or Google when they can control the companies making the physical components which go into those companies.
Understanding the technology, including TCP/IP as it is well known, does not mean that you are safe. I will admit defeat at knowledge of the specifics, but I am aware enough of the technology used to be able to accurately say that unless you make all components yourself, from other components you've made yourself, there is no way known you can be safe. No matter how much schooling you have, in an institution which will teach you what they want you to be taught. No offense.
Tor is open source, I provided a link somewhere in this thread.
I'm not having a go, it's just the Aussie way. I admire the fact you have studied networking more than I have, I know of the different layers, and of course, haha, the human element of networks is the most vulnerable. I don't know what news you've been reading, probably from the same sources I have, but the U.S. government wanted a backdoor put into the HARDWARE so they could eavesdrop easily. Not software on you computer, or phone, but on the actual, physical machines that drive the network. Like your home router, and the ISP's massive, beyond my level of understanding's load balancing, switching and of cource, translating devices. They don't need access to Microsoft or Google when they can control the companies making the physical components which go into those companies.
Understanding the technology, including TCP/IP as it is well known, does not mean that you are safe. I will admit defeat at knowledge of the specifics, but I am aware enough of the technology used to be able to accurately say that unless you make all components yourself, from other components you've made yourself, there is no way known you can be safe. No matter how much schooling you have, in an institution which will teach you what they want you to be taught. No offense.
tweex
Bluelighter
My point is those 600,000 BTC are now out of circulation. DPR isn't going to be spending them any time soon, and apparently the FBI failed to seize them.
If he somehow managed to keep a copy of them in hiding and gets out in 20-30 years, he could be worth tens of billions, or more. Or nothing. Or maybe the FBI will manage to seize them later on, perhaps with his help.
Another thought. When you have a technology that is built for those who are adequately technically minded enough to use, that's great. When these tools can be used by any fool who has no underlying idea about how they work, they become very dangerous. If you don't understand how something works, you can not mitigate the (well known) risks associated using such technology. I'm just speaking my mind and mean no offense.
Edit: I think we all know for a fact too, that they may have infiltrated The Onion Routing Protocol. But maybe by doing that they either a) don't want others to know they have the ability or b) it is against the law, and I think I mentioned this earlier but governments worldwide are known to find evidence illegally (and thanks to people such as Snowden), then use that evidence they found illegally, they can use to find evidence that is not obtained illegally, hence usable in court. I feel like a broken record on here, but this is a serious case and I for one would love to see the fuckers lose if they try and use evidence that was gathered illegally. But we all know that's not going to happen. We all talk about corruption in certain other countries. It's not specific to one or two bad guys, corruption is inevitable no matter what idealogical system you decide to side with. Only because it's a fact of human nature.
In closing, we're all fucked, so we may as well be happy whilst getting fucked.
Edit: I think we all know for a fact too, that they may have infiltrated The Onion Routing Protocol. But maybe by doing that they either a) don't want others to know they have the ability or b) it is against the law, and I think I mentioned this earlier but governments worldwide are known to find evidence illegally (and thanks to people such as Snowden), then use that evidence they found illegally, they can use to find evidence that is not obtained illegally, hence usable in court. I feel like a broken record on here, but this is a serious case and I for one would love to see the fuckers lose if they try and use evidence that was gathered illegally. But we all know that's not going to happen. We all talk about corruption in certain other countries. It's not specific to one or two bad guys, corruption is inevitable no matter what idealogical system you decide to side with. Only because it's a fact of human nature.
In closing, we're all fucked, so we may as well be happy whilst getting fucked.
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sandytrail
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 26
That is not a fact, it is pure speculation. He might have spent those bitcoins (on servers, employees, hits, other expenses, etc.). he may have converted the ones he didn't spend into another currency. you simply don't know if any of those bitcoins are out of circulation.
sandytrail
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 26
I think you don't really know how something works. The world is too complex, you always have got to take part of a technology as a black box. In fact, I wouldn't even limit this statement to technology. All of science is affected. Even a top scholar at Stanford will have to take some of the things she uses in her research as a black box. There's so much accumulated knowledge, you cannot deeply understand everything you work with. That's why there is a division of labor, even among super intelligent experts.
Besides, without pointing fingers at any particular one, I get the impression that some here consider themselves more competent on the technology than they really are.
IF that finger is pointing at me, please, I am not trying to be a know it all and due to recent events in my personal life, my gaba receptros are quite full - meaning my typing fingers are in full force and maybe my brain isn't. I'm just trying to make sense of this the best I can. If at others, I think it's unwarranted.
new poster sandytrail: I am not meaning to cause any offense to anyone, benzos often make me sound like a prick. I was just trying to express my viewpoints, which may be very poorly worded, but believe I have some knowledge that others would be wise to at the very least, explore for themselves. I don't know everything, never have I claimed such a thing. Sandy, could you please, if it bothers you little explain, in depth what you mean and what you know? (Don't worry, I get a little bothered on forums sometimes too)\
Final edit: Black box, I can't remember, does that one give me free internation calls, or are you referring (racistly) to the gential area of a woman who's skin colour is different than mine? Hey, how did you figure out I was white? WITCH, WITCH, BURN AT THE STAKE!!
new poster sandytrail: I am not meaning to cause any offense to anyone, benzos often make me sound like a prick. I was just trying to express my viewpoints, which may be very poorly worded, but believe I have some knowledge that others would be wise to at the very least, explore for themselves. I don't know everything, never have I claimed such a thing. Sandy, could you please, if it bothers you little explain, in depth what you mean and what you know? (Don't worry, I get a little bothered on forums sometimes too)\
Final edit: Black box, I can't remember, does that one give me free internation calls, or are you referring (racistly) to the gential area of a woman who's skin colour is different than mine? Hey, how did you figure out I was white? WITCH, WITCH, BURN AT THE STAKE!!
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tyrael
Bluelighter
This is very true, opi8! Hence my "layer 8 problem"-joke (there's a technical networking model, each builds upon itself from the 0's and 1's along the cable to what the application is sending [eg, HTTP], and there's actually only 7 layers yet to those working in the IT industry if a problem occurs and it's the users fault - often! - without actually logging the problem as "the user is an idiot", "layer 8" is used ...... yeh, it's a nerd joke! lol). Also many hacking cases are actually due to "script kiddies" - someone (say, some teen in their garage) trying to "hack" someone's computer by just running some program (which is coded to utilise some flaw somewhere) - point being they have nfi what they're doing, it's just a "run the program, point-and-click"-sort of thing.
I agree! Although there are basics - and if SR got taken down the way it's suggested, these are basic steps which (really anyone, even without tech knowledge) should of really been taken. Don't ya think?
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sandytrail
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 26
No, opi8, I wasn't pointing my finger at you. I actually think you made some of the most insightful posts ITT.
In any case, my point is that I don't believe anyone, not ever DPR, can accurately pin down the risk associated with making a transaction on a site such as SR. Yes, you can come up with an estimate. And you're right that knowledge will help you make a better estimate. But there are still a lot of factors which, from an individual's perspective, are uncertain.
But, of course, there are also things you cannot know when making a B&M purchase. I think those now posting "I told you so" are oversimplifying things as well. It's not that purchasing from a friend is risk-free. And I would estimate that purchasing through an open-air market is probably the most risky way to score.
In any case, my point is that I don't believe anyone, not ever DPR, can accurately pin down the risk associated with making a transaction on a site such as SR. Yes, you can come up with an estimate. And you're right that knowledge will help you make a better estimate. But there are still a lot of factors which, from an individual's perspective, are uncertain.
But, of course, there are also things you cannot know when making a B&M purchase. I think those now posting "I told you so" are oversimplifying things as well. It's not that purchasing from a friend is risk-free. And I would estimate that purchasing through an open-air market is probably the most risky way to score.
That's pretty cool. Does this mean we can trace where all of the seized bitcoins are going?
izzy66
Bluelighter
I have a feeling that a lot of people who used silk road were older, like in their 40s and 50s, than most people may think. People who liked to smoked a bit weed, maybe liked a little coke on special occasions like bdays or new year's when in their 20s likely lost contact with sources while raising kids and doing the family thing or moving to different states for work related reasons. I seriously doubt many 40 or 50 yr olds want to venture into dope holes or find a 20 yr old to ask where to get some decent weed. For those folks, silk road probably seemed like a safer, discreet alternative w/out worries about getting robbed and/or physically assaulted. I thought about checking it out once but with my weird "luck" i figured my package would be caught and then i'd get in trouble, lose my job, and go to prison which is absolutely not something i ever want to do.
As the popularity and media attention grew more teenagers and 20-something emotional adolescents openly bragged about their silk road acquisitions on twitter and facebook, the end was being written.
Just what the hell has happened to discretion and keeping your mouth shut? How stupid can someone be to post pics of their sr goodies on their personal facebook or twitter accounts? Seriously how friggin' dumb can these fools be?
Then when the -new- DPR, who apparently was very lax about his own security, negotiated a murder plot with a LEO who had established himself as a "trusted" member, the feds had lots of info about who and where he was, had apparently located the servers, had details about the murder plot, and easily got the warrants needed to arrest the dumbass and shut sr down.
And any other similar sites will probably not last long either. LE will once again become members and try to establish trust w/ admin(s), idiots will keep talking, and it'll be wash, rinse, repeat... Hopefully without a foolish murder plot.
All apologies this turned into a tl;dr.
-izzy
As the popularity and media attention grew more teenagers and 20-something emotional adolescents openly bragged about their silk road acquisitions on twitter and facebook, the end was being written.
Just what the hell has happened to discretion and keeping your mouth shut? How stupid can someone be to post pics of their sr goodies on their personal facebook or twitter accounts? Seriously how friggin' dumb can these fools be?
Then when the -new- DPR, who apparently was very lax about his own security, negotiated a murder plot with a LEO who had established himself as a "trusted" member, the feds had lots of info about who and where he was, had apparently located the servers, had details about the murder plot, and easily got the warrants needed to arrest the dumbass and shut sr down.
And any other similar sites will probably not last long either. LE will once again become members and try to establish trust w/ admin(s), idiots will keep talking, and it'll be wash, rinse, repeat... Hopefully without a foolish murder plot.
All apologies this turned into a tl;dr.
-izzy