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DPMC Moderators: tryptakid
FBI raids alleged online drug market Silk Road, arrests owner
- Thread starter serotonin-system
- Start date
Yeah the whole thing is fake, they arrested nobody. 9/11 never happened etc
Just because some twat put a the Silk Road logo onto the screen it does not automatically make it all not true, its what the FBI do they love a dick swinging session. "look at what we did to your silk road" etc etc Obviously they had a bored worker insert the SR logo, they are in fact pretty proud of the whole operation.
First page..
I think this is the first time they have used all of these departments in one bust on TOR, hence the new image. Dont know why im even going down this avenue though.
bennyZA
Bluelighter
I don't know why everyone's so afraid that the FBI's gonna come knocking in there door for buying on SR. Do you honestly think they're going to go through all the data and pull out every single address and follow up on it? Especially when all non-essential personnel are furloughed. There's 100,000 users. The only thing I could imagine is if they go after what vendor's info they could find. The FBI doesn't give a shit if you bought a gram of heroin one time 6 months ago.
The more I read about this Ross dude, the more ridiculous this sounds. He lived with his parents till last year... but he's apparently worth 80m that police still don't have access too, ummmm.. This guy can hide 80m from LE, but he can't hide himself. That's not suspect.
Anyone think this Ross guy wants people to think he's DPR? Like it's a badge of honor. He might have had a very tiny part to play in SR, and then when the FBI came a knockin, he admitted to being DPR, like he was being some sort of hero, taking one for the team and get credit for being the kingpin of one of the largest drug empires in history... A drug empire that netted 1.2 BILLION, that he ran from his parents house.
Sounds like a criminal mastermind
The more I read about this Ross dude, the more ridiculous this sounds. He lived with his parents till last year... but he's apparently worth 80m that police still don't have access too, ummmm.. This guy can hide 80m from LE, but he can't hide himself. That's not suspect.
Anyone think this Ross guy wants people to think he's DPR? Like it's a badge of honor. He might have had a very tiny part to play in SR, and then when the FBI came a knockin, he admitted to being DPR, like he was being some sort of hero, taking one for the team and get credit for being the kingpin of one of the largest drug empires in history... A drug empire that netted 1.2 BILLION, that he ran from his parents house.
Sounds like a criminal mastermind
I think that this person that DPR wanted killed (the first person) was in fact his co-conspirator? Who knows, he had enough knowledge to bring down SR (or so DPR thought) so he could have helped build it, or know the true identity of DPR, cant think of any other reason.
BlueHues
Bluelighter
In the other SR thread Futura 2012 provides the link to an actual paper copy of the Warrant signed by the judge which summarizes the whole case, in fact...here it is...
Must read: http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf
Before anyone speculates about anything they should read this document in it's entirety. It's actually fascinating to read, this story really is like the script to a movie.
I get the feeling that Ross/DPR never was able to fully comprehend the reality of the situation, which he can't really be blamed for. There's probably never been a high-level "criminal" running a massive international drug operation that's risen to power so quickly without ever having to prove himself on the street, throw a punch or come up against any resistance whatsoever. He essentially ran the whole thing from his Laptop! He even had it set so that he didn't even have to enter a password to log into his SR account apparently! Such a smart guy who could have done probably a million things to contribute to humanity and become wealthy in the process, but he opened Pandora's box and he couldn't close it.
Another thing that I think is great: Every classic mafia-style crime boss pretty much just calls the shots while everyone else commits the crimes, and they have to pay him a certain percentage for the privilege of doing business. But most mafia bosses have to employ people full time to go and collect that money. All he had to do was sit there and wait for his cut to be direct deposited! Never had to touch the product or negotiate with the scary warlords living in the hills...
This really is just a classic story that will go down in history and be talked about for years to come. The sad thing is, the government will do anything to close the loopholes that allow for this sort of thing. What was done in the name of freedom will end up just creating more red tape and less privacy than we already have!
If they can't catch vendors, they'll go after buyers, they'll scare the shit out of everybody on both sides and nobody will know who's on the other end or when the other shoe's gonna drop anymore. Sure people will continue to sell things online and use the mail, but after this I have a feeling the days of adding an 1/8th of kush and 2 grams of K to your shopping cart are numbered....I think we may see partially regulated legalization of most drugs in the next 30 years, but there's gonna be a lot of people's lives and freedom sacrificed before that day comes. It will get worse before it gets better.
How far away are they from just being able to wave a wand over a car and instantly tell what kind of drugs are in it? Technology is a double edged sword. People say they don't want crime, but do those same people really want the possibility of anyone being able to break any law completely eliminated? 1984 is a very prophetic book, the technology is in place to put the whole civilized world under surveillance by next summer if they started today. People will have to go deep into the countryside to be free from constant scrutiny...Oh wait, there's satellites that can zoom in on the mole on your left butt-cheek?!
Oh well, I'm rambling on....but the "dark future" that's been done to death in sci-fi movies and books is now officially a reality! It just came on so gradually that nobody noticed!
Must read: http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf
Before anyone speculates about anything they should read this document in it's entirety. It's actually fascinating to read, this story really is like the script to a movie.
I get the feeling that Ross/DPR never was able to fully comprehend the reality of the situation, which he can't really be blamed for. There's probably never been a high-level "criminal" running a massive international drug operation that's risen to power so quickly without ever having to prove himself on the street, throw a punch or come up against any resistance whatsoever. He essentially ran the whole thing from his Laptop! He even had it set so that he didn't even have to enter a password to log into his SR account apparently! Such a smart guy who could have done probably a million things to contribute to humanity and become wealthy in the process, but he opened Pandora's box and he couldn't close it.
Another thing that I think is great: Every classic mafia-style crime boss pretty much just calls the shots while everyone else commits the crimes, and they have to pay him a certain percentage for the privilege of doing business. But most mafia bosses have to employ people full time to go and collect that money. All he had to do was sit there and wait for his cut to be direct deposited! Never had to touch the product or negotiate with the scary warlords living in the hills...
This really is just a classic story that will go down in history and be talked about for years to come. The sad thing is, the government will do anything to close the loopholes that allow for this sort of thing. What was done in the name of freedom will end up just creating more red tape and less privacy than we already have!
If they can't catch vendors, they'll go after buyers, they'll scare the shit out of everybody on both sides and nobody will know who's on the other end or when the other shoe's gonna drop anymore. Sure people will continue to sell things online and use the mail, but after this I have a feeling the days of adding an 1/8th of kush and 2 grams of K to your shopping cart are numbered....I think we may see partially regulated legalization of most drugs in the next 30 years, but there's gonna be a lot of people's lives and freedom sacrificed before that day comes. It will get worse before it gets better.
How far away are they from just being able to wave a wand over a car and instantly tell what kind of drugs are in it? Technology is a double edged sword. People say they don't want crime, but do those same people really want the possibility of anyone being able to break any law completely eliminated? 1984 is a very prophetic book, the technology is in place to put the whole civilized world under surveillance by next summer if they started today. People will have to go deep into the countryside to be free from constant scrutiny...Oh wait, there's satellites that can zoom in on the mole on your left butt-cheek?!
Oh well, I'm rambling on....but the "dark future" that's been done to death in sci-fi movies and books is now officially a reality! It just came on so gradually that nobody noticed!
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Er..yeah I do. That's exactly what they did when they busted the american research chemical suppliers in 2005. The DEA even gave their details to the UK pigs. Guys in the UK who had ordered fifty bucks worth of drugs 12 months previously were getting raided. By taking down small guys they'll send fear into everyone who thought of ordering - that's how they'll look at it.
To the pigs it's easy work - simply go to the address you've got, kick the door in and search for drugs. Then spend the rest of the day back at the station sipping coffee and "doing paperwork". Lot easier than catching a burglar in the pissing rain.
liftedgift
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2012
- Messages
- 496
Such an interesting story, never did any business with SR myself but for everyone who is wondering why this guy was living in the US and not on some exotic island somewhere. He's just a kid, probably didn't want to abandon everything he knew and everyone he knew. Maybe he didn't really have an exit strategy, and from what I've read this was some sub par attempt at first.
Using his name on an email to advertise? Come on now, I love the bottom of his LinkedIn...talking about how he was creating an economic society free from force yet is ordering hits.
Still this guy started a revolution of sorts and could be considered a pioneer of the new age of drug marketing.
I'm with the guy who said the mexican cartels should start one up...they are always trying to find ways of getting their product in, may not be purest but they certainty have the money to start up an operation just as reliable.
Using his name on an email to advertise? Come on now, I love the bottom of his LinkedIn...talking about how he was creating an economic society free from force yet is ordering hits.
Still this guy started a revolution of sorts and could be considered a pioneer of the new age of drug marketing.
I'm with the guy who said the mexican cartels should start one up...they are always trying to find ways of getting their product in, may not be purest but they certainty have the money to start up an operation just as reliable.
tweex
Bluelighter
My point about the value of bitcoin is the fact that there are $80M (and likely $83M) that are now indefinitely out of circulation.
The reason why is quite simple, I'm almost certain DPR's private wallet(s) with all his earnings are encrypted. He wasn't that stupid.
Although he does appear fairly stupid in lack of opsec though. Reading through the indictment, it is painfully obvious how poor his security was. He leaked identifiable info in so many ways.
I honestly think anyone could have doxed him with some intensive googling, which it appears is basically what happened save for the part about DHS turning up to interview him about fake IDs. And why the hell he went into "hypotheticals" with DHS, or even answered the door in the first place? Arrogant/retarded.
If he'd wanted to stay anonymous, the last thing he should have been doing was maintaining any type of presence on the internet with his real name, let alone posting on stack exchange for help with deep web applications and claiming to run an "economic simulation".
I'd bet if he'd been running the site without any support staff while working part time at McDonalds and paying random hobos to go rent his servers, he wouldn't have been busted.
As to the fallout from this, I do highly suspect any big-time recent buyers are going to be getting followed up on. In fact, probably anyone who bought large quantities of drugs at any previous point, and then bought something within the last month.
The feds may not have a lot of resources, but assuming they've been snarfing unencrypted buyer info for the last month or so, it is only logical that they'll go after anyone who had a history of large purchases in the hopes of making money off asset forfeiture.
The reason why is quite simple, I'm almost certain DPR's private wallet(s) with all his earnings are encrypted. He wasn't that stupid.
Although he does appear fairly stupid in lack of opsec though. Reading through the indictment, it is painfully obvious how poor his security was. He leaked identifiable info in so many ways.
I honestly think anyone could have doxed him with some intensive googling, which it appears is basically what happened save for the part about DHS turning up to interview him about fake IDs. And why the hell he went into "hypotheticals" with DHS, or even answered the door in the first place? Arrogant/retarded.
If he'd wanted to stay anonymous, the last thing he should have been doing was maintaining any type of presence on the internet with his real name, let alone posting on stack exchange for help with deep web applications and claiming to run an "economic simulation".
I'd bet if he'd been running the site without any support staff while working part time at McDonalds and paying random hobos to go rent his servers, he wouldn't have been busted.
As to the fallout from this, I do highly suspect any big-time recent buyers are going to be getting followed up on. In fact, probably anyone who bought large quantities of drugs at any previous point, and then bought something within the last month.
The feds may not have a lot of resources, but assuming they've been snarfing unencrypted buyer info for the last month or so, it is only logical that they'll go after anyone who had a history of large purchases in the hopes of making money off asset forfeiture.
my thoughts exactly.. they will likely try and scare people with this in an attempt to dissuade people from just jumping with out a worry to the next market.
exists
Bluelighter
That figures
You cannot kill an immortal creature, and until human behavior changes in some fundamental and improbable way, people will keep using and selling drugs. The WOD seems like the stupidest war ever, but once you start wondering if maybe it's just about controlling people, it makes more sense (but not any less wrong, no).Yeah! Fuck 'em all!
I expect the larger vendors will be the first to get busted. But as somebody else mentioned, I wouldn't doubt that simple buyers will also have someone knocking at their doors soon. The Feds believe that the sort of fear aroused by going after small-timers is going to make a difference somehow. All they are really doing is pushing the populace closer to the edge...
edit: Maybe that's what they want to do, actually 8(
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bennyZA
Bluelighter
I don't think for 1 second that the FBI or the DEA has remotely enough man power. This was a targeted operation. Take down SR, scare a few people, bust a few vendors, move on. Which do you think is the bigger danger, Mexican cartels shipping tons of meth, coke, and heroin or some SR users. The FBI's not going to handle the individual raids. There job's even more important. They will certainly pass on what they know about vendors, but users!? I don't think so. That UK site had unencrypted addresses and credit cards on file. There might be a few busts here and there to scare people, but no worldwide manhunt to bust every user, ever. Think about all the wasted time and money that will be lost by taking 100,000's of buyers through the courts. Either way, agree to disagree neither of is will change the other's mind.
Anyways... After reading pretty much everything there is to read this is my current theory: Ross founded SR because of political ideals and as a place like minded individuals can buy and sell to each other, anonymously. It starts like that, but soon becomes an exchange for everything. It gets out of control, for him, and he gets in way over his head. He freaks out because he doesn't know what to do and so he sells it, probably for 6 figures, which he considers a fortune. He sells it and someone becomes new leader but Ross keeps the name DPR and is leader in name only or he now shares the name, but he only uses it for political reasons. SR becomes his own personal soap box. He's content. He has his money and his respect. Why flee the country, he isn't doing anything wrong... anymore. His guard is lax and he gets pinched. He's a chemist, not a brilliant computer scientist. The real site runner is, or atleast has people that are. This new guy is the guy who's collected 80m. That's why they can't find him or his money. He's smart enough to realize that with this money he can drink martinis in a mansion somewhere no one would look. Nothing Ross is getting in trouble for points to him as the current kingpin. DPR is worth millions and millions, you think he can't fake ID's IRL? Since Ross is an idealist, he gladly takes credit as DPR, getting his ideals out there and covering for the current leader who's probably cashing out as we speak. Ross thinks he's a hero and a man of honor by taking the blame. Seriously though, what serious hard evidence do they have against him to warrant such serious charges? They would need a lot of evidence. To jail him on those charges this would need to be a RICO case, but can they really tie him to others and SR cause a lot of stuff is circumstantial? He takes a plea with significantly reduced charges, gets maybe 10, if that. Though I'm no lawyer.
Just my theory.
VolcanoPreston
Bluelighter
I think this can be a good thing, from a cryptocurrency perspective.
The nature of TOR was such that you can't just log into it and type "buy drugs online" and get a list of search results. You have to know the address. Silk Road's fame meant that no-one else could get a look in, it was the default destination. To be fair they did it very well, but it was a monopoly nonetheless.
And the FBI had to reveal publicly how they did it - not through cracking the technology, but through simple human error. People that are techie enough to set up a black market site now know that in two years of trying, they weren't able to crack the site itself. The $1bn market is still there, the technology is still (relatively) safe. There's nothing to stop new sites coming along, and presumably trying to differentiate themselves from each other. One of the ways they can do that is by utilising other cryptocurrencies because let's face it, the reason Silk Road was wedded to bitcoin was because it was all that was around when it was launched and that utilisation created its own market. It was nothing to do with bitcoin being the superior cryptocurrency.
Atlantis may have failed but if they had held on just a few more weeks, they'd now be sucking up all of Silk Road's trade and Litecoin would be exploding. Now that Silk Road is out of the picture, there's nothing skewing the market towards bitcoin anymore and any new site can pick any crypto it wants and automatically create a market for it. That's great for small scale GPU miners who were driven out of the bitcoin market by the influx of rich people building FGPA farms and scammers like Butterfly Labs mining coins with pre-paid equipment that customers had to wait a year to get their hands on.
The nature of TOR was such that you can't just log into it and type "buy drugs online" and get a list of search results. You have to know the address. Silk Road's fame meant that no-one else could get a look in, it was the default destination. To be fair they did it very well, but it was a monopoly nonetheless.
And the FBI had to reveal publicly how they did it - not through cracking the technology, but through simple human error. People that are techie enough to set up a black market site now know that in two years of trying, they weren't able to crack the site itself. The $1bn market is still there, the technology is still (relatively) safe. There's nothing to stop new sites coming along, and presumably trying to differentiate themselves from each other. One of the ways they can do that is by utilising other cryptocurrencies because let's face it, the reason Silk Road was wedded to bitcoin was because it was all that was around when it was launched and that utilisation created its own market. It was nothing to do with bitcoin being the superior cryptocurrency.
Atlantis may have failed but if they had held on just a few more weeks, they'd now be sucking up all of Silk Road's trade and Litecoin would be exploding. Now that Silk Road is out of the picture, there's nothing skewing the market towards bitcoin anymore and any new site can pick any crypto it wants and automatically create a market for it. That's great for small scale GPU miners who were driven out of the bitcoin market by the influx of rich people building FGPA farms and scammers like Butterfly Labs mining coins with pre-paid equipment that customers had to wait a year to get their hands on.
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Foreigner
Bluelight Crew
If all it took was arresting the owner to take the site down then that was pretty poor management. Compare that to something like Pirate Bay, the U.S. has been trying to shut them down for years and they keep evading it. Their backups have backups. Even if the owners are arrested there will be others lying in wait.
It seems like some underground sites are understanding that decentralization is key to evading big brother, while others like SR are putting all the power into the owner, which makes him the one card you have to remove to take the whole house down.
IMO they invested so much energy in taking down Silk Road because it represented an alternative economy, more than it was drug related. Bitcoins were becoming a real market. Hopefully the next incarnation will have more resiliency.
It seems like some underground sites are understanding that decentralization is key to evading big brother, while others like SR are putting all the power into the owner, which makes him the one card you have to remove to take the whole house down.
IMO they invested so much energy in taking down Silk Road because it represented an alternative economy, more than it was drug related. Bitcoins were becoming a real market. Hopefully the next incarnation will have more resiliency.
knock
Bluelighter
I honestly can't tell if these two things have impressed you or not, but if they have, please reconsider, because there's nothing impressive about them whatsoever, if you have a passing familiarity with the technologies involved.
They certainly do not imply he could have done great things for mankind if only he'd directed his talents appropriately. Maybe he could, but so could you, and I can log in without a password.
BlueHues
Bluelighter
There's a lot of people that seem to be naïve to how the Feds operate. They are opportunists. They're like Lions on the African Savannah.(clichéd but true) They just lie out lazing in the sun for most of the day, dicking around doing nothing in particular...animals will wander by, they'll just watch them...la la la la la...Then,
the lions start to get hungry. whatever group of animals happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time are fucked! The lions aren't out for any particular animal, they just need to eat when they're hungry....
99% of the animals can walk by the lions without getting pounced on 99% of the time....but the lions do hunt everyday, and they won't pass up an easy meal that's stupid enough to walk right up to them! If you keep walking by the lions enough times, eventually you'll be dinner!
The feds have units investigating major operations, and they have units investigating small time dealers....They don't have the resources to bust every small-timer, but they do bust small-timers all the time! They gather information. They have all the time in the world.
Nobody thinks everyone who ever made a buy is gonna get busted, but I guarantee they will bust a wide range of people from different places intentionally, just to instill fear. It may be 100, it may be 1000.
In real life, if you make it home with the drugs, most of the time you're home free. When the feds have your address, you never know when they'll show up, and they don't need to catch you read handed. Just proving that you had intent to deal or possess drugs with the intention to deal them years ago is enough for a federal charge carrying a mandatory minimum.
No offense Benny, but you think this guy is gonna walk away with 10 years? This guy will never see the light of day, guaranteed....The feds hand out 10 years like candy!
You can get a suspended sentence, but absolutely no way will they give this guy any leniency...
The whole Forbes interview, the cockiness and the arrogance....if there was ever anyone they wanted to make an example out of, it's this guy...he's all done
This is just the beginning, maybe they'll pop 100 people, maybe they'll pop 1000, IDK...
I would bet that every country in Europe busts a few people just to make it look like this big international drug victory...
for the feds on this particular case, it's not about going up the ladder and finding the big guy that's gonna lead them to the distributor, it's about scaring the shit out of anyone who thinks doing this is a good idea...and when new sites pop up, they'll just bust a percentage of those people...They'll make it so that anyone who fucks around with one of those sites will never be 100% sure that their door isn't gonna get kicked in the next day.
Anyway, I made my point 10 times over, but as someone who's known people firsthand that have been handed long prison sentences for virtually nothing, I implore anyone considering continuing to play Russian roulette with their freedom to think twice..No matter how much encryption you use to obscure identities, you still have to physically mail drugs to an address.
It's not fair, it's hypocritical, it defies logic and accomplishes nothing in the end, but it's reality unfortunately!
the lions start to get hungry. whatever group of animals happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time are fucked! The lions aren't out for any particular animal, they just need to eat when they're hungry....
99% of the animals can walk by the lions without getting pounced on 99% of the time....but the lions do hunt everyday, and they won't pass up an easy meal that's stupid enough to walk right up to them! If you keep walking by the lions enough times, eventually you'll be dinner!
The feds have units investigating major operations, and they have units investigating small time dealers....They don't have the resources to bust every small-timer, but they do bust small-timers all the time! They gather information. They have all the time in the world.
Nobody thinks everyone who ever made a buy is gonna get busted, but I guarantee they will bust a wide range of people from different places intentionally, just to instill fear. It may be 100, it may be 1000.
In real life, if you make it home with the drugs, most of the time you're home free. When the feds have your address, you never know when they'll show up, and they don't need to catch you read handed. Just proving that you had intent to deal or possess drugs with the intention to deal them years ago is enough for a federal charge carrying a mandatory minimum.
No offense Benny, but you think this guy is gonna walk away with 10 years? This guy will never see the light of day, guaranteed....The feds hand out 10 years like candy!
You can get a suspended sentence, but absolutely no way will they give this guy any leniency...
The whole Forbes interview, the cockiness and the arrogance....if there was ever anyone they wanted to make an example out of, it's this guy...he's all done
This is just the beginning, maybe they'll pop 100 people, maybe they'll pop 1000, IDK...
I would bet that every country in Europe busts a few people just to make it look like this big international drug victory...
for the feds on this particular case, it's not about going up the ladder and finding the big guy that's gonna lead them to the distributor, it's about scaring the shit out of anyone who thinks doing this is a good idea...and when new sites pop up, they'll just bust a percentage of those people...They'll make it so that anyone who fucks around with one of those sites will never be 100% sure that their door isn't gonna get kicked in the next day.
Anyway, I made my point 10 times over, but as someone who's known people firsthand that have been handed long prison sentences for virtually nothing, I implore anyone considering continuing to play Russian roulette with their freedom to think twice..No matter how much encryption you use to obscure identities, you still have to physically mail drugs to an address.
It's not fair, it's hypocritical, it defies logic and accomplishes nothing in the end, but it's reality unfortunately!
Madhatter4
Bluelighter
......and about 15 or 20 Silk Road like sites will pop up in its place, hopefully with better security this time
serotonin-system
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
- Messages
- 672
...looking forward to that dawn raid...
bennyZA
Bluelighter
Many sites are going to pop up and the market is going to be bigger than ever. Websites are going to compete with each other over things like security and the free market that is the black market - which is as pure a free market there is - will spur the growth of newer tech, newer security, newer ideas. Different sites will offer different forms of security. Sites will now compete over who has the best, purest, stuff. Sites will also try to drive down prices. This is just the beginning.
The thing is I think everyone (users and vendors) still want one large site, its better for customer and vendor in this case. Easier to manage, everything in one place etc the only problem is with what happens, if it goes, everything fucks up. The other remaining 2 large sites that were sort of in the shadows, that has now become the "main site" has already closed up shop to new visitors and has is turning away people to try and split them up to go to other sites, dont blame them last thing you want is to become enemy number 1 overnight.