FBI raids alleged online drug market Silk Road, arrests owner

[ro4eva]

@ sandytrail

More Americans die every year from second-hand smoking (of tobacco) than all other street drug-related deaths combined.

Right now, the figures tally to about 30,000 dead from second-hand smoking; 29,000 for all street drugs.

The circumstances are a little different for each street drug, however, probably the biggest reason as to why someone might end up dead from using their DOC stems around purity.

- If each street drug was relatively pure, and around the same potency every time, it would significantly reduce deaths from overdoses.
- If each street drug was never laced or adulterated with another "filler" substance (added to cut costs and/or increase dealer profit or drug cartel revenue), it would significantly reduce deaths due to dangerous adulterants, such as para-methoxyamphetamine and levamisole (among many others).
- If each street drug was always obtained by the user from the same dealer with a good reputation/product, and that dealer always obtained the product from the same source (which usually ships/sells their product pure), chances are that it would also cut down fatalities considerably.

Why did I just tell you all that?

Silk Road - while not perfect - had a pretty good reputation for quality, adulterant-free products due to the following:

- Vendors were competing against each other without resorting to the type of violence street dealers engage in when another dealer starts selling on their turf.
- Buyers were constantly providing vendor feedback amongst each other, which pressured vendors into selling high purity drugs while at the same time keeping prices reasonable and competitive.
- The escrow system (although not 100% scam-proof) provided vendors and buyers with peace of mind during a transaction.
- Through the use of the internet, the Tor Project, BitCoin, PGP, etc. vendors and buyers had nothing to fear in terms of (for example) being robbed at gunpoint.

According to an acquaintance, in all her years of buying/using controlled substances acquired from the black market, she claims that never felt as safe as she did when she switched to using SR. And I believe her.

She also said that, while the prices were higher than usual on SR, it was totally worth it because she apparently never got ripped off.

If you ask me, SR effectively addressed many common risks in relation to buying drugs off the black market. And because of that, it's a shame it's now gone.

I don't want you to think I recommend drug use, because I don't. At the same time however, no one deserves to have his or her freedom taken from them because (s)he decided to ingest a psychotropic substance.

 

[severely etarded]

@ sandytrail

More Americans die every year from second-hand smoking (of tobacco) than all other street drug-related deaths combined.

Right now, the figures tally to about 30,000 dead from second-hand smoking; 29,000 for all street drugs.

The circumstances are a little different for each street drug, however, probably the biggest reason as to why someone might end up dead from using their DOC stems around purity.

- If each street drug was relatively pure, and around the same potency every time, it would significantly reduce deaths from overdoses.
- If each street drug was never laced or adulterated with another "filler" substance (added to cut costs and/or increase dealer profit or drug cartel revenue), it would significantly reduce deaths due to dangerous adulterants, such as para-methoxyamphetamine and levamisole (among many others).
- If each street drug was always obtained by the user from the same dealer with a good reputation/product, and that dealer always obtained the product from the same source (which usually ships/sells their product pure), chances are that it would also cut down fatalities considerably.

Why did I just tell you all that?

Silk Road - while not perfect - had a pretty good reputation for quality, adulterant-free products due to the following:

- Vendors were competing against each other without resorting to the type of violence street dealers engage in when another dealer starts selling on their turf.
- Buyers were constantly providing vendor feedback amongst each other, which pressured vendors into selling high purity drugs while at the same time keeping prices reasonable and competitive.
- The escrow system (although not 100% scam-proof) provided vendors and buyers with peace of mind during a transaction.
- Through the use of the internet, the Tor Project, BitCoin, PGP, etc. vendors and buyers had nothing to fear in terms of (for example) being robbed at gunpoint.

According to an acquaintance, in all her years of buying/using controlled substances acquired from the black market, she claims that never felt as safe as she did when she switched to using SR. And I believe her.

She also said that, while the prices were higher than usual on SR, it was totally worth it because she apparently never got ripped off.

If you ask me, SR effectively addressed many common risks in relation to buying drugs off the black market. And because of that, it's a shame it's now gone.

I don't want you to think I recommend drug use, because I don't. At the same time however, no one deserves to have his or her freedom taken from them because (s)he decided to ingest a psychotropic substance.

well said.

And I'm astounded "nod" would send someone to drop off a package to a uses worker instead of using cash to pay for an automated machine off camera or just weighing and buying the postage online with a prepaid card from an unsecured wifi on a business pc. dumb dumb dub

 

[bagochina]

Right, people rob for heroin - because it is illegal. If they could buy it cheaply at the corner store, and quality was assured, the risk would drop significantly. Nobody would rob for money for heroin, and almost nobody would overdose.

lol, yeah sure.

 

[Jabberwocky]

One should add, though, that deaths are far from the only cost of drugs. Drug use has many other very important negative externalities (cost to the health care system, drug-related crime, enforcement-related costs, loss of labor and human capital, to name a few).

One should add, further, that the overwhelming majority of drug problems are not inherent to the compounds themselves, but to their prohibition.

Drugs can be good, bad or, very commonly, a combination of both. The bad aspects can make some, who don't value freedom as much as safety, think it wise or good for society to criminalize these compounds; whether or not such legislation is 'right' or fair, the practical reality is that drugs do more damage to society when criminalized than when decriminalized.

[edit: I don't want to get bogged-down in details with you, but if you doubt the point of this post, consider how many more ppl are caged annually than overdose, and tell me the drugs are worse than the war on them. Consider how much time is wasted by junkies trying to score overpriced drugs, how much time and money is spent by the enforcers of prohibition, and tell me prohibition is better for the economy. Consider that we're the worst jailer, per capita, on the planet due to our drug war, and tell me prohibition is compatible with freedom...]

 

[Dr_Robotnik]

@ sandytrail

More Americans die every year from second-hand smoking (of tobacco) than all other street drug-related deaths combined.

Right now, the figures tally to about 30,000 dead from second-hand smoking; 29,000 for all street drugs.

The circumstances are a little different for each street drug, however, probably the biggest reason as to why someone might end up dead from using their DOC stems around purity.

- If each street drug was relatively pure, and around the same potency every time, it would significantly reduce deaths from overdoses.
- If each street drug was never laced or adulterated with another "filler" substance (added to cut costs and/or increase dealer profit or drug cartel revenue), it would significantly reduce deaths due to dangerous adulterants, such as para-methoxyamphetamine and levamisole (among many others).
- If each street drug was always obtained by the user from the same dealer with a good reputation/product, and that dealer always obtained the product from the same source (which usually ships/sells their product pure), chances are that it would also cut down fatalities considerably.

Why did I just tell you all that?

Silk Road - while not perfect - had a pretty good reputation for quality, adulterant-free products due to the following:

- Vendors were competing against each other without resorting to the type of violence street dealers engage in when another dealer starts selling on their turf.
- Buyers were constantly providing vendor feedback amongst each other, which pressured vendors into selling high purity drugs while at the same time keeping prices reasonable and competitive.
- The escrow system (although not 100% scam-proof) provided vendors and buyers with peace of mind during a transaction.
- Through the use of the internet, the Tor Project, BitCoin, PGP, etc. vendors and buyers had nothing to fear in terms of (for example) being robbed at gunpoint.

According to an acquaintance, in all her years of buying/using controlled substances acquired from the black market, she claims that never felt as safe as she did when she switched to using SR. And I believe her.

She also said that, while the prices were higher than usual on SR, it was totally worth it because she apparently never got ripped off.

If you ask me, SR effectively addressed many common risks in relation to buying drugs off the black market. And because of that, it's a shame it's now gone.

I don't want you to think I recommend drug use, because I don't. At the same time however, no one deserves to have his or her freedom taken from them because (s)he decided to ingest a psychotropic substance.

Would totally agree with everything you just said. This is exactly what I've been thinking for days. I've even looked into new sites to see and I think there's more dealer bullshit involved than there was with SR which to be honest if you did your homework was pretty straight up you got what you paid for.

There was even competition to the point vendors were offering from 250mg to 250g of flake cocaine that pretty much says it all. Then a lot of vendors all at competitive price for say grams, it was hard to make a choice almost!

 

[izzy66]

"oh the children!" cry always plays in the media but i'd bet a decent sum that the average age of SR users was much older than most may have expected. kids under 18 were not any present in any significant numbers.

 

[oldirtybizza]

Right, people rob for heroin - because it is illegal. If they could buy it cheaply at the corner store, and quality was assured, the risk would drop significantly. Nobody would rob for money for heroin, and almost nobody would overdose.

Dunno bout the corner store. certainly your average punter with unrestricted access giving it a first time shot would run a risk of OD.
If if if if the WOD were to end if things were too available the initial increase in use and OD's would cause a public outcry and things would just go back to how they are now.

Any sustainable attempts at legalisation would have to involve heavy regulation, possibly pharmacy only style like back in the day.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Dunno bout the corner store. certainly your average punter with unrestricted access giving it a first time shot would run a risk of OD.
If if if if the WOD were to end if things were too available the initial increase in use and OD's would cause a public outcry and things would just go back to how they are now.

Who are these first timers that would be using needles/dope without having graduated there from oral/nasal preparations? The types that would do so, and then still manage to use too-much while using metered-dosages, are the type darwin would've claimed via alcohol/cars/spray paint.

OD's are almost universally caused by stronger-than-expected dope, something inherent to black markets, not pharmacies/regulated product.

 

[liftedgift]

Your analogy is pretty weak and you know it which is why you try to sell it off as irony. People gotta eat. Choking deaths are a concern, but you cannot really pin it down on one type of food. For example, a quick google reveals that choking from hot dogs, marshmallows, and small toys seems more important statistically.

In any case, many more people die from drug abuse and drug poisioning than from choking. Plus, food is a necessity, mind-altering drugs are not.

One should add, though, that deaths are far from the only cost of drugs. Drug use has many other very important negative externalities (cost to the health care system, drug-related crime, enforcement-related costs, loss of labor and human capital, to name a few).

See, your point of view and most others is that when a drug is illegal that makes it less available and makes people not want to try it. It's honestly the exact opposite though and as soon as society realizes this the better.

I choose to not do heroin because I'm honestly scared of it, the fact that it is illegal has nothing to do with it. I've seen many documentaries and have friends that went to brown town and decided to move there. Some never come back. It is education that stops people from taking drugs not laws.

I love weed and it's illegal, I used to love pills and they were illegal since I had no prescription. But even at that point in my life...heroin was off limits for me personally.

And in fact if it were legal and regulated I guarantee there would be less overdoses, because it would all be the same purity or at least would let you now the purity. Because now there's so many different strengths people don't know how much they should take. Not even to mention all the cuts... come on.

 

[BlueHues]

More people die from prescription opiates every year than from heroin....Even if you know the exact purity, people still try to get as high as possible and OD all the time. It would be better if it was standardized, but people will continue to take too much.

 

[my3rdeye]

The way they found the large vendors, from my understanding, is by purchasing off them - often with tracking numbers - then triangulating the post offices they used to send the mail and then using simple investigation techniques such as surveillance camera footage.

WTF vendor goes into a PO? Thats insane. You buy stamps, if you are using the prepaid envelopes you send a hobo in to buy a hundred and his reward is a 6 pack. If you went in a post office yourself you are an absolute moron. You don't use the same mailbox every time, you don't get fingerprints on it, etc etc. It amazes me though how stupid some people are who send drugs, like Nod. Thats pure greed to use a PO box as return address. Undeliverable packages are the buyers problem 110 percent, there was too much competition on SR and people did stupid things to win customers. Including resends for people who tried to get their packages sent to abandoned houses. No one in the drug mailing business did that shit before SR, if your package was sent to a fake address and returned to sender you got nothing because the return address was bogus.

I am sad. I thought SR's demise might encourage people to join the fight against prohibition. All i see is people trying to hide in the drug closet even more. Homosexuality went from a crime to legal gay marriages in less then a generation, they didn't do it by being afraid, they had parades and made noise. There are far more illegal drug users then gays, but i don't see LSD pride or heroin pride parades. Law enforcement has beat us already, no matter how good your encryption is.
I have changed my opinion on SR recently. I think it enabled (mostly) rich white people to forget the drug war existed. Mailed right to your door, no hassles with criminals. I don't think it helped the fight against prohibition at all. Maybe i am an extremist here, but i consider DPR and most of those vendors to be drug war profiteers who didn't give back to the community in any real way. They got rich based on prohibition, and didn't have any interest in fighting drug laws.
I don't care what site(s) replace SR at all. In fact i think a few years of having to buy drugs on the street might be good for everyone. There shouldn't be an out in the war on the drugs, it makes it too easy for the drug war to just not exist in some people's worlds.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

^

You have many good points sir.

 

[Dr_Robotnik]

WTF vendor goes into a PO? Thats insane. You buy stamps, if you are using the prepaid envelopes you send a hobo in to buy a hundred and his reward is a 6 pack. If you went in a post office yourself you are an absolute moron. You don't use the same mailbox every time, you don't get fingerprints on it, etc etc. It amazes me though how stupid some people are who send drugs, like Nod. Thats pure greed to use a PO box as return address. Undeliverable packages are the buyers problem 110 percent, there was too much competition on SR and people did stupid things to win customers. Including resends for people who tried to get their packages sent to abandoned houses. No one in the drug mailing business did that shit before SR, if your package was sent to a fake address and returned to sender you got nothing because the return address was bogus.

I am sad. I thought SR's demise might encourage people to join the fight against prohibition. All i see is people trying to hide in the drug closet even more. Homosexuality went from a crime to legal gay marriages in less then a generation, they didn't do it by being afraid, they had parades and made noise. There are far more illegal drug users then gays, but i don't see LSD pride or heroin pride parades. Law enforcement has beat us already, no matter how good your encryption is.
I have changed my opinion on SR recently. I think it enabled (mostly) rich white people to forget the drug war existed. Mailed right to your door, no hassles with criminals. I don't think it helped the fight against prohibition at all. Maybe i am an extremist here, but i consider DPR and most of those vendors to be drug war profiteers who didn't give back to the community in any real way. They got rich based on prohibition, and didn't have any interest in fighting drug laws.
I don't care what site(s) replace SR at all. In fact i think a few years of having to buy drugs on the street might be good for everyone. There shouldn't be an out in the war on the drugs, it makes it too easy for the drug war to just not exist in some people's worlds.

The first part I agree with using return addresses as your own mailboxes you've rented under a fake passport is madness. I think even using return addresses on the packages is stupid because all the feds need to do is look at the return address and mostly likely the name won't match the address. Better without them or if you going to do it with them write off ever seeing those drugs again and just do the return address as a legit person you know in real life but don't like ha.

The bit in bold though, they are opportunists. Not deliberate profiteers. I'm sure many of them agree that prohibition is wrong, which is why perhaps morally they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

It's difficult to not see someone who had apparently hoarded 5% of all BC's in circulation as a profiteer though no?

 

[liftedgift]

More people die from prescription opiates every year than from heroin....Even if you know the exact purity, people still try to get as high as possible and OD all the time. It would be better if it was standardized, but people will continue to take too much.

But with most overdoses, it is a combination of medications not just one. Although it does happen, but most people just take benzos,opiates, then maybe chug a beer thinking it is alright.

 

[snagglepuss]

just an opinion and not to stray to far from the topic .But a good thing from Silk Road.I think it had played a part in a re-igniting of sorts, of the EDM scene here in the US.People always went to EDM shows ,but as of late it has really "blown-up" "pun intended" .Coincidence maby ..things do tend to happen in cycles.But to me it only makes sense..ive been going to the shows.And qualify as one of those people ..who will go for sure ..if i have what i need...Not to say its "required" for a good time ,its not......but for some it could be a deal breaker.....as always be safe ,and hooray for personal freedoms and responsibilities.....the torch is lit and ready....

 

[poledriver]

In the world of Deep Web black markets, the fall of Silk Road is a tragedy that won’t be soon forgotten.

On Oct. 2, the FBI seized the site and charged alleged founder Ross William Ulbricht with narcotics trafficking and conspiracy to commit computer-hacking.

The first memorial to Silk Road comes, fittingly, on the face of ecstasy pills. On Sheep Marketplace, a vendor named TheHeineken is selling is selling five 300 milligram ecstasy pills with the trademark Silk Road camel on one side of the pill and the letters S/R on the other end. It’ll cost you about * to place an order.

“To pay our respect to DPR,” TheHeineken wrote, “and to forever remember the legacy that was Silkroad we have made a small batch of special units. On the front is the logo we all came to love and on the back the initials S.R.”

Given the anonymous nature of the Deep Web, you can never be sure who’s on the other end of a storefront. But TheHeineken has a solid track record, having recently made the move from Silk Road to Sheep Marketplace to great success. In just a week, TheHeineken’s made 135 sales of a variety of drugs including MDMA, LSD, and speed.

“Holy shit I need some of these so bad!” one user wrote.

“Looking delicious” said another.

These are limited-time productions, but if they succeed, I bet we’ll see more themed drugs very soon. Isn’t the future weird?

Photo via TheHeineken

*Prices removed.

http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-ecstasy-pills/

 

[poledriver]

 

[neversickanymore]

Lives wrecked, most likely millions of dollars spent.. end result of nothing positive... people still want their drugs and people are still going to sell them.

 

[oldirtybizza]

Who are these first timers that would be using needles/dope without having graduated there from oral/nasal preparations? The types that would do so, and then still manage to use too-much while using metered-dosages, are the type darwin would've claimed via alcohol/cars/spray paint.

OD's are almost universally caused by stronger-than-expected dope, something inherent to black markets, not pharmacies/regulated product.

Giving it a shot, can also mean giving it a go, which is what I implied, so your question is both retarded and redundant.

You also missed my point entirely.
Secondly how hell can you make this claim about overdoses. People OD on pharmacy medicines all the fucking time, opiates, benzos, muscles relaxants , the dose is known and yet they still go over. In fact I think you will find prescription drug deaths far outnumber those of illicit drugs.
People get caught up in the moment , take too much, or are unaware of the effects of a drug in combination with another. People make mistakes and if drug reform were to take place we would have to put regulations in place to minimize those mistakes being made , that was my point.

If drug reform is going to be taken seriously it needs to be based on fact, one of those facts is that drug use carries inherent risks regardless of it's legality.