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EZ SCAM

Ok, but why is ez a scam? Cause it plays on peoples need to feel some security when they are taking street drugs, and it does so by somewhat misrepresenting what it is able to do. It is just not good a good method of testing pills. Just because a lot of people _want_ it to work well doesn't mean it actually does.
I really dislike the idea of trying to make money off testing. Even if they aren't making alot of money. Overly punitive and irrational laws on drugs have created the need for drug testing. Is it right to try to cash in on our bad situation? I think absolutely not. That's why I think EZ and their dumb ass money grab "patented" test is bullshit. Testing projects really should be voulenteer based and open and an emphasis made on accuracy and availabilty. Anybody can buy tlc plates and pure methanol/acetone/whatever, why not detail how to do tlc testing with them with an open optimized protocol for standard results and experimental results. Really the m.r. should be sprayed on developed tlc plates, that's what it would be most good for.
Are you doing these kits to make money? Cause you don't sound like you have that much chemistry experience.
 
I'm sorry that you feel it should all be free.. TLC is a time tested lab analytical method, and anyone can put together their own kit (if they'd like too)... what I'm not about to do, is give out the rf values for each drug.. why you ask?
1. each plate will have a different rf value for each drug.. so the values for the plates I use aren't going to be the same for someone else's plates.
2. It costs about $20 US for a 1 ml sample of each of the drugs.. sorry mate, but can't be throwing my money away... either you buy a kit, or buy the samples, and get the values yourself.
3. I do NOT like people telling me or suggesting that I do not have sufficient chemistry experience. Perhaps you should have asked what experience I have in chemistry, before publicly stating that I appear to have very little.
It is foolish to think that someone without any chemistry experience would bother with putting together a TLC kit.
Finally, we used to test pills for free, but the people who were coming to test with us asked us why we weren't charging! Plus we were usually given a donation anyhow.
Also, it is proven fact that people are more likely to listen to, and retain information if it cost them something. <-- This came from one of the pill testing groups in Amsterdam.
This discussion is closed. It doesn't even have anything to do with the topic for this forum.
I think EZ-Test, Chemical Generation, Dancesafe and anyone who puts together a kit, spending their spare time are entitled to make money. This is not a charity, but a business, we wouldn't do it for a loss would we.
I am a computer programmer, and my partner (SilverPrincessUK) is a corporate account manager. We make maybe £50 a week, and that's before we account for the EZ-Test kits & TLC supplies we use doing this - IF WE'RE LUCKY
Trust us, we don't need the money, its not that profitable... we do this because we WANT to.
TheGamer
[This message has been edited by TheGamer (edited 22 December 2000).]
 
oh i don't know where this idea that EZ Test "patented" the test came from but it isnt true. if this was true wouldn't they be suing the other 4 companies in the world who are releasing the exact same product?
any way, nice rant utopia boy. no one makes money out of testing kits, regardless of what type. everyone i know involved in it is doing it for very altruistic reasons, and like me, often give away more than they sell.
a marquis reagent is limited protection, giving a false sense of security. in this i agree. but so is a seat belt.
millions of people have their lives saved by them everyday, but countless other dont. should we take em all out? no. should we install a much more complicated restraint system that takes you 20 minutes to get into and out of your car every day? well sure, if you want to. but most people are just going to do the easier option. for now that easier option is the marquis test, and that option is far better than not buckling up.
and now we are also getting a sash belt; second generation reagent tests are about to be released by all 3 major E test companies.
but we are still waiting for our airbag. nanotech will probably give us one, as no doubt that technology will happen before decriminalisation happens. until then we do what we can. but just as airbags havent replaced seat belts, there will always be a place for the marquis.
------------------
"i think i'll stick to drugs to get me thru the long, dark night of late-capitalism..."
Irvine Welsh
 
Well, I guess I thought you don't have much chemistry exp cause you should have known technical grade sulphuric acid (drain cleaner) is dark brown, and that the decomposition products turn reagent grade sulphuric acid brown if it's left sitting around too long in a poor container. And if you did know something about chemistry you'd know that the rf values you get could be related to some easily available known, like ephedrine or methamphetamine (not that it would be that hard to find a real sample of mdma), or even each other, and could definately be of use to others who try to do this on there own, esp if you were using standardized plates and a pure solvent. Sure, I agree, cover your ass for the work and supplies but to pretend like you got some kind of high technology there is foolish. Someone without any chemistry exp likely wouldn't try it but there are lots of educated people out there who have post-secondary chem exp and are industrius enough to do attempt this stuff for themselves in there own cities and publish accurate and reliable _local_ results online or at parties, and that would definately be in the interest of the public health. Maybe you're so cynical about other peoples abilities because you had trouble getting it to work in the first place? If that was the case then maybe if you had of did it openly instead of as a (bad) business idea and gotten help from the hive or others you would have a better product to sell. But hey, don't worry, I just got out of jail so I'm kind of busy putting my life back in order but eventually I will do that and make the info as available and accessable as I can. I was going to do it two years ago ( http://www.purerave.com/~quirks/tlc/tlc.html ) and I got started but I got arrested and lost all my stuff.
Seat belts? There's hard data as to just how likely you are to live/die because of a seat belt. If you are concerend you can find it online. No one seems to want to compile hard data on the m.r. and pills, something that could be done with tlc plates. And if you asked joe raver who justgot his cool new testing kit how well it works I'd bet they'd swear something like 95% accuracy for pills, and that it is workable for quanitative as well as qualitative analysis, which just isn't the case. I dunno, but I think what your saying is if they pay for something they are entitled to a false sense of security? wtf?
Anyways, I think people are entitlled to make money, I just don't think when it comes to public health they should attempt to limit access to information or research. I guess thats fanatical socialism eh? Sorry to rain on your chivarly parade.
- Utopia Boy
 
ahhh the hive... should have known this was a bee.....um... limiting information? ahhh right... so thats what i do, spend all day not answering questions.
look, i dont know why you feel that this arguement is anyway helping things. no one is hiding data. if you turned up tommorrow and posted all the TLC data you have i would thank you profusley. they arent trade secrets. if the search function was working i could show you some that are already here, posted by drugdustbin. this is a public bulletin board and is in no way controlled by EZ Test, Dancesafe, Ravesafe or Chemical Generation. post what you want.
i admit there isnt that much hard data out there, but thats because widespread use TLC at street level is fairly new. it has only been the last 6 months that widespread use of Marquis and the reporting of it on pillreports has happened.
if you do have hard data then please share it. this goes for anyone with this data.
your joe raver example is just irrelevant. many people have misconceptions about the test but they dont get them from here. go thru this forum and read every response i, or any of the other moderators have given. nowhere have we ever said that the test will give quantative results or that it has any fantastic level of accuracy. in fact we have pointed out its limitations again and again.
if they still think it it is not our fault. we are at least trying to educate people. don't throw that back at us, and especially me, who is in no way connected with any of the above companies.
complaining about peoples ignorance is just more idealism, unless you actually do something to help. so help us.
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 24 December 2000).]
 
i personally havnt seen the test kits.. but im asuming the 'dropper' is just like say an earwax remover dropper? if so and that makes the regent turn yellow etc over time.. why not (if possible) incorporate a similiar design like a surringe (sp) with a super thin needle (ie like when a doctor gives you a shot) so you could just turn the thing upside down and get a drop out..
just a thought...
------------------
*~*~* do the drug dont let the drug do you *~*~*
 
Gee, what a rant....
"The marquis reagent was designed to test pure substances, pills are a mixture of lubricants, filler/starch, drug. Because of this, the m.r. will give alot of flase positives and false negatives"
Bullshit, darkpurple is darkpurple -> Ecstasy like substance. No such thing as a false positive or negative.
"What really bothers me is that ez seems to represent it as something designed to testpills"
EZ is designed to test pills, darkpurple -> E like substance
Any other color -> non E substance
Simple and effective
"And did I hear somewhere they pateneted something"
Yep, the name, not the contents but it is too costly. Don't have the cash to trademark/patent it.
"Ok, but why is ez a scam? Cause it plays on peoples need to feel some security when they are taking street drugs, and it does so by somewhat misrepresenting what it is able to do. It is just not good a good method of testing pills. Just because a lot of people _want_ it to work well doesn't mean it actually does."
EZ is not the perfect tool to test, we never said so. EZ is a perfect tool to test if you consider the fact that there is (was, the TLC plates are quite recent) currently nothing else.
I know so... because I receive emails from people thanking me because they have just found out that what they have been taking turned out to be Speed or something else.
You should know how surprised people can be when they test for the first time and there is no reaction to darkpurple.....
EZ does not offer security, we never said so.
EZ only INDICATES what substance is present in a pill or capsule.
I wonder, did you ever have a look on our website ??
aj
 
Dumbass ??
Why should I further reply to you ??
The ones that test as dxm show a very slow reaction (according to that page).
Rule number 1 when testing is that the reaction should be fast.
I see 14 typical test results, they say that these contain mdma.
Now what do you mean with "30 results with about 30% of mostly impure or bunk pills testing as mdma".
Sorry but I don't get it.
And please remember (previous posting) that these tests only INDICATE what kind of substance is present (please re-read this sentence, it was also in my previous posting)
aj
 
So if we are all a bunch of dumb ass', and all we are doing is going around giving people a false sense of security then why don't any of you Einstiens who've "worked in labs" come up with something better and put all of us greedy scammers out of biz?
By the way dudes, we also spend a large part of our evenings talking to people & educating them on the basics including how to take care of yourself. Things that some of us take for granted including us privileged bluelighters who were lucky to have found this site. And before someone tries to say "all you need to do is a simple search and you'll find bluelight" some do some don't. So at the very least we give this website address out so that one can see threads like this and make up their own minds on whether we are scammers or not, but I can garuentee most do not and most are glad to have us around and most are glad to help us to make things better instead if trying to fight us.
So here is a personal invite to all of you to come see us & see what we do & then make up your mind, and if your not to busy trying to trash us why don't you help us out since some of you out there seem to have the knowledge that us scammers don't seem to have.
END OF DISSCUSSION
Quincy Silver
Star Dust Products
 
you do know how the dancesafe system works now, don't you? almost all the pills are sent in by local chapters who get inconclusive marquis test results on a pill and who want the lab to tell them exactly what it is.
people aren't sending that many "typical reaction" pills in anymore. so of course this sample of results is going to be skewed towards the bad end of the scale. if you were really going to do statistical analysis you should look over all there results.
but let's break down what's on that one page:
18 pills gave what they call a "typical purple/black reaction". of these, 14 were found to contain only MDMA.
2 were found to contain DXM only, but each of these results was labeled "slow", ie a typical DXM reaction. i have my doubts as to how "purple" these results were, but thats subjective.
one pill contained MDMA plus ketamine and caffeine. the MDMA reaction probably masked the other components, but this is something we are constantly pointing out.
one lonely pill out of this selection gave the "typical purple black/result" and didn't contain MDMA. this pill was shown to contain
Methyl Salycilate and Dipenhydramine. we've always known, and said, that there area few chemicals that could fool the test. and here's proof. no denying that.
but there are also 13 other pills in this limited sample that a bad reacton or no reaction, and which on lab testing proved to contain only adulterants. these should be considered successes as well, because it seems unlikely that these pills would have been consumed.
so if we add these 13 to the other 14 positives you get a total of 27 in the win coloumn. the DXM results are kinda inconclusive, sure they gave a "typical" reaction, but it was slow enough and wierd enuf for people to be worried enough to send em in. lets call them a tie. that leaves two pills in the loss coloumn.
27 - 2.
so where did you get 30% from?
even if i didn't beleive in the usefullness of marquis tests, and was arguing from that standpoint, your ridiculous use of statistics would have driven me to write this analysis.
lies, damn lies, and statistics, as the old saying goes...
so when i said give us your hard data i was hoping you would share your knowledge on TLC plates and other techniques, not (mis)interpret someone else's results to try and win an arguement.
who's the dumbass now? i would have had a lot more respect for you if you had simply reported those results and not stooped to name-calling. that goes for everyone here...
 
On Ya AJ
You guys are (by the sound of it) making shit all money from the testers as it is but still keep on with it.
At the end of the day I may be able to produse it myself but what the hell am I gonna do with the litres of acid an formaldyhide left over???? at a drop a test I think its a joke to even suggest producing it yourself, not to mention more expensive and a bloody hassle.
As for quirks - state a point but get a life buddy!!! most of us are just happy to have something more than a dealers word to get at least an idea of whats in a pill when we are buying. Thankfully I can trust that what I am told is what i get but it's still nice to get some sort of confirmation and from my experience if the tester indicates speed or mdxx then that is 90% of the time what i find when i take them.
For me personally the fact that the reagent seems to indicate (from experience) DXM content then they are worth their weight in gold, anything that prevents you from popping a pill with that shit is great!!
yeah yeah they are basic (and maybe not 100% accurate) and yes they don't indicate other nasties and give no idea of concentartions of the substance indicated, but this is an illegal substance and trade so its all about the chance and the risk we all take everytime we pop and anything that can give you more information (not matter how little) is worth the cost of half a hit.
bambam
 
Thanx !
Good point.
We always did it for fun.
It is still fun and it is also getting serious. That's fun too.
I am just happy that the whole pill testing (though not 100% perfect) thing is coming through. Really happy about that !
aj
 
well then johnboy, would you be so kind to post a couple of links to synths, for us not-kitchen-chemists to upgrade from mixing our own Marquis to TLC?
Thanx for your time.
------------------
Diego Maradona. Y no hay nada más que hablar.
 
OK ENOUGH ALREADY:
This has become no more than a silly & stupid fight.
If you have genuine marquis reagent questions, or TLC, HPLC, or GC/MS questions, post away...
If you're posting for the sake of argument, or to bash any of the products currently on the market, find another board.. While marquis reagent is a far cry from a Gas Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometer, it has its legit place.
Same for TLC etc... so again, I suggest you think before posting..
To all the mods: if you want to re-open this and/or add your comments.. please do.. I'm just sick of this thread getting stupider by the day
TheGamer
 
tranceme: i don't have any info on TLC. i'd know more if i actually had some to experiment with. *hint* what limited knowledge i have on marquis reagents i have already shared, and i will continue to repeat myself about them every day.
theGamer knows a lot about TLC plates. perhaps he would like to share his knowledge. *hint*
 
Yes Johnboy... I know ... I must send you a kit... perhaps my backorder of Iodine crystals would help (it took me over 3 weeks to get my methanol..)
Please explain what you would like to know about TLC, and I'll do my best..
TheGamer
 
send me whatever you've got. i can probably source some stuff locally. the need for more accurate testing out here is getting rather desperate.
it isnt so much what i want to know about . a lot of the discussion in this thread has been about the general lack of information that is available about TLC, here and everywhere else.
all information is good information. if you just copied and pasted here whatever info is sitting on your hard drive, or any links you might have, then we could all see it. this is what i've been getting at.
everytime i come across information i do my best to put it upon bluelight, whether or not anyone has asked a question about it. this is what i thought bluelight was all about...
so just dump it all here, and hopefully we can assemble it into a coherent FAQ. and, once again, this goes for everybody...
 
Okay, here goes nothing
smile.gif

TLC - Thin Layer Chromatography
TLC is one of the analytical methods of chromatography, where a mixture of substances are separated into the individual substances.
TLC is one of the more basic, simple and inexpensive methods available, and can be performed at home, without the need of special equipment.
To perform a TLC test, the following is required:
1. Substance for analysis (obviously)
2. Chromatography plate
- This is the "medium" to which the sample is applied for testing
3. Solution for mobile phase (explained later)
4. Reference value for substances detected in the test (more explanation later)
Essentially, a portion of the sample (pill or powder, portion of acid trip etc..) is dissolved in methanol. This allows for the sample to be applied to the chromatography plate. This will also require the use of a filtration setup, so no solids are present in the liquid.
The chromatography strip must also be prepared for the test. This involves setting a "total front distance" for the solution to travel. Depending on the variation of TLC that is used (there are several ways of performing a TLC test) this distance will vary. We use a distance of 130mm.
Lines are marked at the start and end of this (130mm) distance. With a micro-pipette, a drop of the methanol-drug solution is applied to the "start line", and is allowed to dry. This is repeated to ensure the sample is concentrated enough.
Once repeated, and allowed to dry again, the chromatography plate is stood upright in a container (properly called a developing tank), which contains the solution for the mobile phase. This is commonly a mixture of ammonia, and methanol.
The solution should NEVER touch the area of the plate where the drugs have been applied, as this could contaminate the solution. Rather, it should contact the plate about midway between the drug spot, and the bottom end of the plate.
The "developing tank" is sealed, and the solution will "move" up the plate. The plate is removed from the solution when the mobile solution has reached the "end" line (the other line drawn). After it is dry, an indicator is used to make the drugs visible.
Each drug within the mixture will have moved a different distance, and each will result in a spot in a different location on the chromatography strip. Iodine is a common indicator. By exposing the chromatography plate to iodine vapor (by placing in a container with iodine crystals) the drugs on the plate will be stained by the iodine, and produce dark spots.
Finally, the distance from the "start line" to the spot is measured, and divided by the total front distance (eg. 130mm)
so for example, a spot appears at about 71-72mm from the start so you divide 71/130 and get ~55, which in the case of our kit, would indicate MDMA.
If there are multiple substances, multiple spots will appear.
To obtain the reference values to compare to, you would require a PURE sample of the substance.
"Pure " from the street is not really the best way of calibration. Rather one should really buy a 1mg/ml sample from a lab supply company. These are designed for this purpose, and are NOT regulated under most countries drug laws.
Don't think of consuming these, because at $15 USD, they're expensive, and are always mixed with METHANOL, which is toxic and should NEVER be consumed.
Most companies will have the basics
(MDMA, MDA, amphetamine, methamphetamine, ephedrine, ketamine) and there are a few that can provide PMA, MDEA, 2C-B, DOB, DOM, Mescaline, LSD, LSA, ...
For anyone who wants to obtain a kit from me, (as soon as the remaining supplies are delivered) email [email protected]
If you are interested in putting together your own kit, you can also email me - BUT
I WILL NOT provide any rf (reference values) to ANYONE, as the plates you buy will most likely be different from mine, and tests on the same drugs will produce different results.
I will be happy to suggest to anyone companies that manufacture and sell chromatography supplies.
TheGamer
 
Thanx gamer...! I'll start from here and let you know my progress on putting together my home TLC stuff.
Great piece of info.
------------------
Diego Maradona. Y no hay nada más que hablar.
 
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