Opioids Extracting fentanyl from polymer-matrix patches

[Nexus Viper]

I only had fentanyl once. Like you erich, it was a 25. We cut it in four parts with my bf, and chew on on quarter for about five minutes (I also swallowed it). A few hours ago, we did the same with the other half (that is, another quarter each). It was a bit too strong then (more sleepy than euphoric), but it lasted really long and we enjoyed it a lot. I have a good tolerance for all drugs (except GHB !) and my boyfriend is almost the same. We didn't felt like overdosing at any time, but maybe that's because we divided the dosage.

 

[trychomes]

Ok thanks for the input. I did some more reading and decided to cut the thing in half then quarters. I put one half away for a rainy day. Then I cut a .25 into six strips, and did those sublingually for 30 minutes and chewed the heck out of them and then ingested them. I started feeling high about 20-30 minutes in. I got really fucking high for a little while and I'm still really high now, three and a half hours later. I'm currently wearing a .25 of the thing. It's one of those clear ones w no visible gel, sorry if I didn't mention that earlier. Anyway, what's your opinion on how high I'll get when I put the quarter patch under my tongue after it was on my skin for a total of 18 hours, having been moved after the first 5 hours due to it falling off. Any input is appreciated and I have to say that I agree, it's really strong shit, and should be used with caution. Also, do you think it safe to eat the quarter that's been on my arm now or not really?? Like is the fent that I took three and a half hours ago (sublingual) not yet fully kicked in, or is it? If it is then I feel I can handle more, but if it's still got some legs on it then I shouldn't. I hope my post makes sense I'm super duper high. For the visual aid see my twitpic if you're do inlcined. @itsjusttootie

Thanks in advance..

 

[Nexus Viper]

If you're already high, keep your stuff for later, dude ! If you took something sublingual three and a half hours ago, I guess you're getting the full effects. But in my opinion, 1) you should not use them as patches... only as chewing-gums 2) it'd be safer not to eat what you've got on your skin, cuz it's a bit hard to say what's left and would go straight up to your NCS if you swallowed it. Just appreciate what you've got for the moment, and redose when you really feel you're getting down !

 

[jjdonkey]

Fentanyl 75mcg was the last hurrah before I checked into detox. I had been taking upwards of 400mgs A DAY of Oxy and the doc cut me off. The thing with all of these people suggesting cutting it up and sucking the gel (I did it, it tastes like shit, be prepared), is that it is RIDICULOUSLY short acting if you take it that way. Like maybe half an hour of mild euphoria. If you have chronic pain, it helps to keep you normal, but I wouldn't jack around with it for fun.

I have to tell you that after my merry go round of opiates, I finally had back surgery, and when I woke up in the recovery room I was screaming...literally, with nurses trying to calm me down because I was in so much pain. My tolerance was so jacked up and permanently altered that the maximum dosage of morphine plus fentanyl didn't even TOUCH the pain. I pray I never have any kind of accident or surgery again since it's obvious I screwed my life up by ruining the effects of opiate analgesia.

 

[mymindisgoo]

honestly with the 100mcg ones id smoke it.

 

[Dopiate112]

Donnnt swalllow the fent patch......worst possible thing to do...biggest risk of them all....if your going to do them chew on it for 4-6 hours to get the full taste out and the fulll effect....1 or 2 hours isnt long enuff.....if uve never done a patch...read up on it for a few hours b4 u do....dont just put it on, or chew it without knowledge cuz this is the most dangerous pain killer....be safe first everyone...---dboy

 

[Dopiate112]

What the hell does utfse mean?

 

[punchednthenose]

UTFSE means USE THE FUCKING SEARCH ENGINE. Please don't bump old ass threads either, it's just annoying. MOOODDDDSSS please close this!

 

[rjaym73]

If I am not mistaken the fentanyl in Mylans patches is in the free base form, would it not benefit for sublingual use to convert it to the water soluable citrate form? I also know that the citrate willl vaporize "smoke" but I am not sure of the free base form. Does anyone know if the freebase form degrades before it vaporizes? It is amazing how little technical information there is on fentanyl online.

 

[jjdonkey]

you should get off your ass and go do some fucking drugs and do us all a fucking favor and O.D. you cry baby little bitch!

Keep it classy, crazy j!

 

[jjdonkey]

In regards to the addictive nature of fentanyl, the 75mcg patches were the last thing I did before checking my self into detox. the short acting nature of fentanyl just screams for abuse, particularly if you have a box full of them in your medicine chest.

So dangerous. Be careful.

 

[bluedom]

Since the top of the thread contains all the nice disclaimers, and since my goal was to extract fentanyl for oral ingestion without the use of alcohol, I have a way that's kind of wasteful but will get you at least one good effect from a used patch. If you take a used patch, say 25mcg/hr that has been worn for 3 days that had a total of 4.2ml to start with (Sandoz generic), there should be ~2.4ml of fentanyl left. I then have taken one or more used patches soaked in several drops of lemon juice + H2O for a few hours, microwaved on high for about 30-45 seconds (hot but not boiling), let it cool for about 30 minutes, and then ingested. I'm not sure which of these steps is necessary but this current protocol works to produce a nice euphoric high.

I've had some failures, mainly with second trials, but on the first go, I've either had a perfect effect/euphoria (9/9) that lasted a few hours to one that was similarly perfect except for repeated throwing up (the kind that occurs when you've overdosed on an opiate). So with the 2.4ml theoretical limit I could've ingested, it would amount to about 0.7ml of fentanyl after oral use (bioavailability is 33%) which is equivalent to ~ 70mg of oxymorphone/oxycodone for me in efficacy.

I have a detailed writeup of what I did that I am still working on and I may post that later. Anyways, this seems like a simple way to get a decent buzz from an used patch. I am actually using these patches to taper down and they seem to work for that (the patches themselves produce little euphoria and reach a steady state of an opioid in your system and can be shifted down gradually so far with zero pain provided the shift isn't too great in which case a shot of the lemon juice combo will prevent you from feeling like you're dying as your higher dose patch kicks in---I had never experienced real opioid WD before until this week and I thought the sniffles were bad).

 

[Oxymorphone]

Since the top of the thread contains all the nice disclaimers, and since my goal was to extract fentanyl for oral ingestion without the use of alcohol, I have a way that's kind of wasteful but will get you at least one good effect from a used patch. If you take a used patch, say 25mcg/hr that has been worn for 3 days that had a total of 4.2ml to start with (Sandoz generic), there should be ~2.4ml of fentanyl left. I then have taken one or more used patches soaked in several drops of lemon juice + H2O for a few hours, microwaved on high for about 30-45 seconds (hot but not boiling), let it cool for about 30 minutes, and then ingested. I'm not sure which of these steps is necessary but this current protocol works to produce a nice euphoric high.

I've had some failures, mainly with second trials, but on the first go, I've either had a perfect effect/euphoria (9/9) that lasted a few hours to one that was similarly perfect except for repeated throwing up (the kind that occurs when you've overdosed on an opiate). So with the 2.4ml theoretical limit I could've ingested, it would amount to about 0.7ml of fentanyl after oral use (bioavailability is 33%) which is equivalent to ~ 70mg of oxymorphone/oxycodone for me in efficacy.

I have a detailed writeup of what I did that I am still working on and I may post that later. Anyways, this seems like a simple way to get a decent buzz from an used patch. I am actually using these patches to taper down and they seem to work for that (the patches themselves produce little euphoria and reach a steady state of an opioid in your system and can be shifted down gradually so far with zero pain provided the shift isn't too great in which case a shot of the lemon juice combo will prevent you from feeling like you're dying as your higher dose patch kicks in---I had never experienced real opioid WD before until this week and I thought the sniffles were bad).

I would say don't use fentanyl at all but if your goal is to get high do not swallow fentanyl, the stomach destroys it rather quickly which is why no fentanyl pills exist. I still believe slowly IVing known small amounts (assume extraction is always 100% effective so you always over estimate dosage for safety) of fentanyl is the safest since you can measure the solution like I detailed in the first post. That or you can plug it or shoot it up your nose if you are not an IVer, so I guess the latter could acutally be considered safer in some ways but I believe the abillity to get near instant feedback while you slowly inject is safest since you can stop if you feel it is too much where all other ROAs have lag time that make it too late by the time you feel it.

I probably IVed 50 patches and never ODed but nearly died with the similar tolerance twice out of 7 patches buccally.

 

[bluedom]

I would say don't use fentanyl at all but if your goal is to get high do not swallow fentanyl, the stomach destroys it rather quickly which is why no fentanyl pills exist. I still believe slowly IVing known small amounts (assume extraction is always 100% effective so you always over estimate dosage for safety) of fentanyl is the safest since you can measure the solution like I detailed in the first post. That or you can plug it or shoot it up your nose if you are not an IVer, so I guess the latter could acutally be considered safer in some ways but I believe the abillity to get near instant feedback while you slowly inject is safest since you can stop if you feel it is too much where all other ROAs have lag time that make it too late by the time you feel it.

I probably IVed 50 patches and never ODed but nearly died with the similar tolerance twice out of 7 patches buccally.

Your extraction approach is fantastic for most uses I agree. The problem is that I need to be discreet, can't use ethyl alcohol in the mix, and need a "ready to go" system like a tea (or, guess what, a patch!) that I can take anywhere. I actually think the patches are great for what they are but they are supposed to be taken off after 72 hours and the patent shows they could be effective up to 7 days but people's experiences vary and I think the main problem is simple adhesion. I'm talking about using up the remaining fentanyl in the patches once they are off at the prescribed 3 days where more than 50% of it should still be left for some of the generic patches.

I think I will try an IPA + patch mix nasal drop. It would actually be great if these patches dissolved fentanyl in a nasal spray like they do in IPA (that useful PDF in this thread seems into indicate > 90% would be extracted in 100 minutes at RT in 500ml of IPA). That'd make it perfect for intranasal use and the intranasal bioavailability is 89% (and I've been using nasal sprays daily since I was 6 years old, no joke!). I'm going to investigate this...

Just to illustrate how I use these patches, where even water based soaking of the patch can be enough for me at times: I was on 50mcg/hr fentanyl from 130mg/day oxymorphone with minimal WD (Gabapentin helped a LOT). After reaching a steady state on the 50mcg/hr (5 patches, 13 days), I dropped to 25 and it was too fast and I experienced real WD for the first time in my life so I went back up to 50. I then told the doctor I didn't want to go back to the oxymorphone or the 50mcg patch (I should've taken them and cut them in increments of 5% in retrospect---I wish I had a do over!) but we decided to try 37.5mcg/hr which is also too fast but not as bad as the 25 but I want to stabilise on this dosage while neuroadapting. So what I do now is stay on 37.5mcg/hr until I feel WD and then put on another 25mcg patch for another day and use the fentanyl lemon juice (or even water + patch + heat + time) from previously used patches to tide me over until the new patch kicks in (so I'm on a 37.5mcg/hr most of the time except when I feel WD when I bump up to something and then back down again). I hope to reach a steady 37.5mcg/hr soon and feel "normal" on it and then go down from there again.

But doing the nasal drops would be better, and discreet. The main problem is not become hooked on fentanyl itself! I just want to do a slow opiate taper like the benzo taper, and I can do it with the patches, but even the 12.5mcg/hr changes seem a bit too big. I've been on opiates since July (probably dependent right away since I was IVed a lot in the hospital) so while I can stay on for a while part of me wants to just get off ASAP with minimal fuss and high neuroadaptation.

I realise I've kind of hijacked this thread and I'm sorry about that but my point was that I was interested in extracting fentanyl from used patches for the sake of a taper from what seems like a moderate pill dependence. My requirements are no IV/discreet in use and preparation, and no ethanol. Your (oxymorphone's) general approach should work for a good nasal spray also especially since the lemon juice method produces a pretty good effect (the problem with oral ingestion is the rapid first pass metabolism of fentanyl, which is why you have 33% bioavailability, but 33% of a potent drug is still potent, believe me).

For reasons I won't get into here, I think mixing ethanol and opiates is a bad idea even in very small quantities.

 

[ATLL765]

I wouldn't suggest extracting fentanyl from used patches. Your guess that 50% is left is based on what? Unless you had some scientific way to prove how much is leftover in those patches, I would not advise extracting and using fentanyl from them. There is just no way you can dose accurately when you have no idea how much fentanyl you're extracting from the patch. That just seems like too much speculating to be doing with a drug that can so easily kill you.

 

[Oxymorphone]

^If you want to taper off fentanyl just cut the patches up and wear them if you must. Seems like you have a really low tolerance and shouldn't be on fentanyl at all. At that low dosage there is no reason for you to be dragging the process out with nasal sprays and months of use. Fentanyl should not be used for tapering but if you must don't do anything except wear the patches- it is too dangerous when you are lowering your tolerance to near nothing then giving yourself large boosts of instant fentanyl. You could be off opioids in a week where you are with minimal discomfort if you really want to, no need to complicate things- just deal with the minor WD. You can't expect not to feel anything, I know people who shot 5000mcg of fentanyl from ampules a day then jumped off with no physical WD.

 

[bluedom]

I wouldn't suggest extracting fentanyl from used patches. Your guess that 50% is left is based on what? Unless you had some scientific way to prove how much is leftover in those patches, I would not advise extracting and using fentanyl from them. There is just no way you can dose accurately when you have no idea how much fentanyl you're extracting from the patch. That just seems like too much speculating to be doing with a drug that can so easily kill you.

I do the actual math for my guess. So the Sandoz generic patches (these are the drug-in-adhesive formulations) contain a total of 4.2ml fentanyl for the 25mcg/hr patch. If I wear a patch for 70 hours (I have exact on and off times for each patch), then I assume it's 25x70mcg that's been used which is about 1.8ml leaving me with 2.4ml left on the patch (which is 57% to be precise).

Since so far I've taken it orally, I assume I would get a maximum of 0.8ml fentanyl (33% bioavailability) even if I extracted everything to 100% and I could handle about half that without dying, so I just take half the solution first and then the other half 2 hours after the onset of the first half. But I calculate how much I am likely to get based on (1) the length of the cold soak and assuming the fentanyl is slowly diffusing out just as it would on the skin until it reaches equilibrium (16h) and (2) the acceleration of the process due to heat (2x and 3x).

So the number I come up with is actually a seemingly solid one but I didn't want to give anyone the impression it really was truly reflective of the actual amount, just enough within my tolerance. BTW,

Like I said, it does work, and I get 1-2 good doses out of one used 25mcg patch, and it's a long lasting feeling, about 4-6 hours total. I write this with trepidation and all the disclaimers at the top of this thread apply.

 

[bluedom]

^If you want to taper off fentanyl just cut the patches up and wear them if you must. Seems like you have a really low tolerance and shouldn't be on fentanyl at all. At that low dosage there is no reason for you to be dragging the process out with nasal sprays and months of use. Fentanyl should not be used for tapering but if you must don't do anything except wear the patches- it is too dangerous when you are lowering your tolerance to near nothing then giving yourself large boosts of instant fentanyl. You could be off opioids in a week where you are with minimal discomfort if you really want to, no need to complicate things- just deal with the minor WD. You can't expect not to feel anything, I know people who shot 5000mcg of fentanyl from ampules a day then jumped off with no physical WD.

The idea of fentanyl for tapering is my PM doctor's and my spine doc also agrees this is the best way for me to taper off. I wish you were right about minimal discomfort, but it isn't the case for me: I felt like I was going to die last week when I went from 50mcg to 25mcg, which is why I am on bluelight and reading up the transdermal patch patents. (I know I wouldn't have died but it was a horrible feeling.) I go by the theory that if you suffer discomfort during taper, you will have craving later and really a lot of this is planning for the future so I don't go around hunting for opiates when I am done.

A final point besides everything else is that I still have pain to deal with at the same time. I am undergoing a course of treatment for my spine which is going to happen over 5 more months (so a simple assumption is that my pain will also get to zero over that time). So again, I'm just planning ahead so as the pain decreases, my opiate usage decreases.

I agree adding in the doses of fentanyl (orally or nasally) is a bad idea and I would prefer to NOT do that. But if I can do that and drop patch doses, then I'd have succeeded in the end. That's the idea. Or it could be my mind playing tricks. I am not taking any other breakthrough pain meds (though I could but if I had it available, I'd just take them more often than necessary).

I was given a similar dose of opiates for my back a few years back and I tapered off them SLOWLY, going down by 5mg of oxycodone a week for 4 months and then switching to tramadol and then tapering off of that. You may think this was overkill but this was a truly PAINLESS taper. During this time, I did "violate" my taper every so often by taking more than needed but I made it out okay. Here my goal is to stick to one prescription of the patches per month (but you're right, I should've gotten the higher sized patches and cut them but I can't have a do over now and my doctor seemed pretty strict about not cutting these patches but I think either he doesn't know about these drug-in-adhesive formulations or is just parroting the company line for legal reasons).

Anyways, to keep the subject relevant, I am almost done with making the nasal spray. I used IPA and it looks like the fentanyl does dissolve more completely in the IPA (especially with heat) and I plan to dissolve it in sterile water and add it to my nasal pump medication and try it out. I need to be a lot more careful now.. but the nasal doses should start to take effect in 5-10 minutes so I'll experiment slowly and work my way up.

 

[bluedom]

Okay, it's now 1 hr and I've probably squirted a few ml of my mix in my nose (slightly stings) and perhaps with the mildest of effects. Here's what I did: took a used 25mcg/hr patch where I estimate about 2.4ml of fentanyl was left, and immersed it in several ml of IPA and waited for a few hours until it was largely dried (there might've been about 0.2ml of IPA left) and then I added 20ml of H2O to it, so approximately 240mcg per ml of H20 and then started by putting a few drops (0.2ml of H2O) in my nose and working my way up.

Doing this the lemon juice way, I'd have gotten only one dose out of it, and it would've kept me fairly happy for the next few hours. I do know that oral fentanyl has made feel the most euphoric compared to any other method except IV (in the hospital).

I wanted to address also the issue about euphoria and effectiveness of fentanyl compared to other opiates. I've not tried heroin but mostly oxymorphone/oxycodone orally and intranasally. They're all comparable but it happens only once in a while. In other words, there's no way I can consistently get an euphoric high off of opiates. One day I could take 130mg of opana within a short time and feel nothing and the next time I'm happy all day. Same with the other opiates. I have no idea why this happens but this has happened for many years. (The very first time after a break usually does lead to a good euphoria but that alone doesn't explain why my 10th use might lead to euphoria but not the 5th.)

Oh well, probably a good thing for my taper.

 

[customconcern]

Well I totally know how that feeling can get under your skin and before you know it you are repeating classes and blew $2500 on classes you just bombed and I absolutely commend that you had this planned up, and as it seems, planned to do a little bit at a time when you could while you kept it on a word pad document not in a huge rush to post, but this is just too great. Bordering on captain's micron filter mega thread.


I'm going through/been through the same thing man, it's hell on your psyche.

I'll stop there to keep this from becoming a "Dark Side" thread. There's no cookies there.

But yeah I can't wait to try this method