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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Experiences of Addiction and the Medical Profession

THECATINTHEHAT said:
Very different to the experiences of other benzo addicts that I have met through groups like Battle Against Tranquilisers as well. Increasingly people are being forced in to reductions and a lot of the work that they do is helping negotiate slower tapers with prescribing doctors for the people that are coming to their group. I've only attended there rather than done service but the girl who went to my uni and helped run the group I attended said it was a lot of what they dealt with.
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Again, there should be no negotiation in a benzo taper. The patient is in control and NICE makes that clear. If a patient wants to plateau for a while (or forever, for that matter) they can. I even give the patient a signed contract telling them that to stop them fearing the rug will be pulled from underneath them.
 
NICE guidelines are great but at the end of tye day the doctor is the one with the prescription pad. If he choses to ignore guidelines and treat the patient in an unfair, unhelpful way then there is very little the patient can do about it right at that moment in time.

I've been in pain management for nearly 20 years and had several GPs in that time. My treatment has ranged from incredibly helpful and understanding to been treated like scum of the earth just for being on prescribed opiates...

Yes it's wrong but it happens.....
 
My benzo reductions (several over the last two decades) have always been forced. You take the taper or get cut off dead in my experience. Also in the experience of everybody I've ever known on a longterm benzo script. Maybe somebody should tell doctors about these NICE Guidelines cos they don't seem to be aware of them.
 
THECATINTHEHAT said:
Wow...well that's a very different experience to what I have had in various different areas. Got to say I'm pretty shocked, last time I went on a benzo script I got given it on the understanding of a very regimented reduction schedule (although things didn't play out like that for various different reasons).

Thanks for posting that it was an interesting read (if a little late for me personally), I'm happy to be corrected there. Do you have a link to the full set of NICE guidelines?
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http://cks.nice.org.uk/benzodiazepine-and-z-drug-withdrawal
 
Shambles said:
My benzo reductions (several over the last two decades) have always been forced. You take the taper or get cut off dead in my experience. Also in the experience of everybody I've ever known on a longterm benzo script. Maybe somebody should tell doctors about these NICE Guidelines cos they don't seem to be aware of them.
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^^^this
 
Shambles said:
My benzo reductions (several over the last two decades) have always been forced. You take the taper or get cut off dead in my experience. Also in the experience of everybody I've ever known on a longterm benzo script. Maybe somebody should tell doctors about these NICE Guidelines cos they don't seem to be aware of them.
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Doctors have access to them and are supposed to check NICE for conditions because for any condition a newer drug might be available which is safer or more efficient. A particular antibiotic may no longer be recommended as a first line treatment for a particular type of infection because of a rise in resistance.
 
Shambles said:
My benzo reductions (several over the last two decades) have always been forced. You take the taper or get cut off dead in my experience. Also in the experience of everybody I've ever known on a longterm benzo script. Maybe somebody should tell doctors about these NICE Guidelines cos they don't seem to be aware of them.
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That's dangerous. Surely they should be struct off for that. I assume that everyone in the NHS knows of the NICE guidelines specific to their role. I could be wrong. NICE guidelins were constantly rammed down our throat n we were just office workers.

Evey
 
A lot of doctors don't seem very understanding of addiction. I told my doctor that, at the time, was talking 18 zapain daily n what does he do? Reduce me from the 30/500 to 8/500, 56 per week weekly pick up. I asked could I please be put onto pure codeine n taper rather than have the paracetamol-based, whichI knew I was going to took more of n risk liver damage (yes i was aware of cwe but my addict mind refused to do this anymore as I was scared of losing codeine).

So what did I do? Find an illegal online pharmacy with some fake online doctor n bought 60mg pure codeine tablets which I'd often take up to 10 at a time or mix with codeine linctus n other tabs from pharmacies or online pharmacies.

My doctor didn't seem bothered at all. Oh n also put me on citalopram which had me feeling suicidal n worst than before.

I think doctors really need to be a bit more understanding of their patients' needs n the risks that come with addiction. Because when you're an addict you don't think normally. If someone says "you're going to die tomorrow if you continue you DoC" the idea of losing the DoC is FARRERRR more frightening than the possibility if dying. That's quite a scary thought looking back.

Evey
 
Shambles said:
Not the same as actually doing it which, as noted, they don't. Perhaps you are the exception to the rule - you taking on new patients at the moment? ;)
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I'm not about to become the go to guy for doctor shopping but I would recommend to anyone that NICE guidelines are a matter of public record and accessible free of charge. It might annoy the doctor but brandishing the guidelines and asking "What part of what you are suggesting accords with the evidence based guidance provided by NICE?" NICE and NICE International are highly respected organisations and the World Health Organisation works with them to improve healthcare globally. Incidentally, Labour want the law changed so that doctors must follow NICE guidance.
 
When I was working in NHS financial management years ago it always made me laugh when I would see charges going through the accounts and the only narrative was "NICE drugs"....

Maybe I'm just childish but the obvious double meaning made me smile :)
 
In 2013 I had an fit/seizure sort of thing through the use of tablets I thought where diazepam, turns out there where phazepam I had a tub of a thousand. I had been to my doctor before that and said I was addicted to benzo, and the reasons this happened was because I had been to the doctors in the past about anxiety, insomnia issues I had, which where really bad and I was 18, they gave me all sorts of things, none of them helped but benzos did, mainly valium this took away all of that but my doctor wouldn't take notice of that which resulted in me not really going back for they issues I stay in glasgow benzo abuse is solid here, loads of valium about, street ones mostly they did the trick, but with no help or support I would swally more, I never had anxiety or anything related to the things that lead me to benzos, but as you can imagine with dodgy india/pakistan vallies I soon was getting into all sorts of trouble cause them. When I had my fit thing, I woke up one wednesday morning, took 10 ''blues'' which where phanzepam, from then I cant really mind much, just what i am told, and that is, I paid an upfront fee on a private let even though I had a gaff with the burd, I done unreal amounts of crack, I am pretty sure this was the first time using heroin as well obviously cant remember but I had these drugs in my possession previously before taking the benzos. I completely insane things to the saturday night where I stumbled into my mums house, said I was going to sleep, lay on the sofa every once else went to bed glad I was finally in the house getting my head down, but my mum walked through to the living room at 7am my lips where turning blue, she shits a few kittens, shouts on my dad the old bastard basically saved my life I was swallowing my tongue, I was in trouble. Police arrived before the ambulance, them fuckers said to my parents nothing they could do, and granted they coudln't do fuck all, but the cunts smelt green, my younger brothers they where on about warrents shouting no one was leaving the house etc, and the bastards did try do my brother with intent, sent a letter asking him to bring his self to the police station, they couldn't lift an charge him as they weren't out on a drugs things, stupid pricks let my dad get in ambulance with me with alot of my stuff weed was small compared to what could of been, but none of that fucked up shit would of happened if when i went to my doctor and few year before and was straight with and said valium is the answer to my problem could you monitor it make sure things dont get out of hand, i was basically told to fuck off, if i was using street valium to go the addictions team, what use is that with gps it depends on your donald duck if you will get someone who is willing to help, or if your left self medicating on your own.
 
Only because it was illegal, not because you need/want help by then, jokes.

Even my drug worker for as nice as she was, first time meeting her n' that, I tell her I started by snorting my gear, but mostly smoked now. Then she asked me about the water I smoked with, I was obviously like WTF, I said I dont know what your talking about with a total ''ze fook'' face on, she quickly moved on, it was mento!
 
Congratulations, englandgz74. The exams may have been artificially easy, but you still have the satisfaction of knowing you worked as hard as you could and not just as little as necessary to pass them. That is an impressive quality. You deserve your moment of glory.
 
Cheers Julie....

It's not so much that they were easy just that we had been given several clues what was on them (or maybe that's the same thing :))

I did put a lot of work into them though. It's so much different doing exams when your working full time as well compared to when your a student and you're studying full time. When you've spent all day at work or in a training centre and you come home at night all you want to do is relax not pick up the books and read stuff.

A couple of tye multi choice questions threw me but I later found out that he deliberately put stuff on the paper that we wouldn't remember just to throw us. Like asking questions on drugs we don't carry or asking technical questions about defib settings that are automatic so you wouldn't bother learning them anyway.

Clinical training I actually enjoy...it's mandatory advanced driving training that scares me...and that's next. 3 week course first though. I better buy myself a copy of the highway code and swot up this weekend as you have to memorise all the road signs and stuff.....Anyone that likes driving would enjoy the course though because as soon as you press the little 999 button on tye dashboard most of the traffic and speed laws that piss us off so much go out the window. The training vehicles are a bit lighter and have a bigger engine (2.5 litre Mercedes twin-turbo) so you can get them up to a reasonable speed on an open road...had 120 out of one before.

Anyway I'm waffling now :)
 
I had to comment on this because of how calm and cool you come across. Sobriety causes a ripple effect so I fully support your mission...with that said, why would you support anyone trying to get clean and clear of addiction and opiate dependency to step over/up to suboxone? Its a false sense of sobriety, it's the doctors version of keeping addicts in the game, and the withdrawal is worse and takes longer no matter how you slice it? I just would hope someone with your experience would better advise to come off clean....might be rough for a few weeks but the rest of your life is now ahead of you and with a clean spirit and will power. Don't mean to rant, I just went through this myself as I was 7 years addicted to china white fentanyl and the doc(s) told me I had to come in for detox considering my opiate levels....I asked them if opiate withdrawal can kill me and they said NO....so I saved the $5k and called close family and friends gave up my keys and phone forms week and made it to the other side! Sucked bad but confidence is what us addicts need during this process anyway we can get it. I struggled for weeks to move much but mind over matter, all the natural supplements my body now 37 days later is really resetting back to me! I took subs for a year a fee years back and methadone over a year in the middle of all this and was right back on H as soon as the doc cut me off....it's a big nasty cycle and the only true way out is if the addict is truly going to make a non negotiable choice to quit
 
My direct proven honest reply which you might not want to hear...? Stop everything cold turkey and gut it out! Without the real raw pain and struggle of quitting cold turkey addicts will always venture back because they know there are easier ways to stop one for the other. Hey some people are okay being "suboxone lifers"....they have themselves convinced it a BETTER. Well not for us brother because the opposite of courage is not fear, it's conformity and subuxone is the docs drug dealing full spin just to keep you in the game. I quit cold turkey after 7 years straight, I'm 35 now, almost 2 months clean and I don't care about what life throes at me because I know if I'm sober I will do my best!! And no regrets brother what's done is done its about what you do with that pain that will make you great if you use it as FIRE!!! I'm very thankful for my crazy druggy past 7 years because now I get to use that pain regret shame loss of pride as FUEL in my life to drive further than I ever would have before all this! It's a blessing brother so remember....it's all perspective! You can sulk and let it drag you done or chin up and use this experience to elevate you to the moon!!!
 
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