Ever had a reaction from switching from lortab to kratom or vice versa?

[truvision]

I looked for this topic elsewhere and only found someone on here who combined the two at the same time so if it is on here somewhere I apologize.Im going to be switching from lortab to kratom soon and wondered if there would be any problems with that.Ive had one other experience doing that the other way around where the day before I had dosed on kratom and the next day dosed on lortab and the feeling I got was just plain weird. I was more anxious than anything.It took about two days for the tabs to start working right at all and for that feeling to go away.

At first I figured maybe the kratom and the tabs were maybe fighting for the same receptors or something or maybe the kratom had some sort of blocking effects. Then I found out that they actually prefer different receptors kratom being mu and tabs being delta (I think it was).My question is would it make a difference going from lortab to kratom instead of kratom to lortab?Could there have been some reaction that happened when I went from kratom to lortab?

I just dont understand how people can mix the two at the same time but then when I tried to use each seperately one day apart I got a crappy feeling.Ive got kratom coming in the mail soon and wanted to maybe switch between the two to stretch out my supply( but not at the same time) but dont wanna make myself sick in the process.Thanks any thoughts are appreciated!

 

[Pegasus]

The problem is probably that kratom raised your tolerance to hydrocodone. Kratom is powerful stuff and will raise your tolerance without a doubt, especially if you're used to low doses of hydrocodone. Strangely enough, most reports are that kratom is slow at building tolerance to itself, but quick to build tolerance to other opioids.

 

[truvision]

I so agree with you, kratom really is alot more powerful than people say.Dont get me wrong,I like kratom but theres a guy thats got some videos on youtube touting the wonders of kratom and compares kratom to having a cup of coffee in the morning. He does say to take breaks from it but says that any withdrawals can be mitigated with some magnesium or chammomile tea! Give me a break thats a freaking joke.The effects of Kratom and its withdrawals are nothing light in my experience.In some ways kratom feels even more powerful than other opiates do for me at least.I just dont know why I felt anxiety from it the day after dosing with tabs and then with kratom but I guess Ill try to go as far as I can with tabs and then introduce the kratom.Im trying to step down my opiates and in desperation am going to try a kratom taper but I know the inevetable is gonna come and hope Im not just shooting myself in the foot.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Often when you are dependent on opioids and switching from one opioid to another there will be a few days where you don't feel quite right or the new one doesn't fully cover withdrawal symptoms. Different opioids have different mechanisms of action and different receptor affinities, so your brain/body needs time to adjust.

Alternately when switching there can be a sort of additive effect because the first opioid is not fully out of your system yet.

 

[truvision]

Okay, now I think I really get what your saying cause you explained that to me in my other post about loperamide withdrawal and how the tabs might not cover the loperamide totally.Well thats most def what Ive been feeling.Its steadily been getting worse but maybe if I raise my dose slightly on tabs it might help. I really dont want to have to switch to kratom later either but might have to so I can make it through the full 15-20 days of loperamide withdrawal. Geez, this experience has been totally INSANE. This really is the last time Im going the this bullshit, for sure... maybe I needed it because I think this ones broke me for good!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah, maybe just raise the hydrocodone a little bit and try to hang in there and see if it gets better, then stabilize on the hydrocodone for a bit and taper off it. Try to stay positive

How many days has it been since you stopped the loperamide?

 

[truvision]

Not to get my own thread off topic here but Im desperate to know cause this is getting really really bad.. when do you think my peak of loperamide withdrawal will hit? My last heavy dose was on the 10th where I took about 18 of them and then on the 11th I took 4 and then no more. Im about to go into the fifth day but it most likely didnt totally leave my system until three days later on the 14th which was yesterday. If I knew when my peak was going to be I think I could manage this better but not knowing is making it harder. If this needs to be moved to its own thread then thats fine. I dont want to clutter the boards more than I already have and Im not thinking too straight right now.Im even thinking of going back and tapering cause this is starting to get out of hand really fast.

Had to go back and edit this I was ironically posting this before you asked that question. Thanks even though I know I sound a bit manic right now 8)

 

[truvision]

To make it easier intsead of giving dates my last heavy dose was on Monday and then on Tuesday I took 4 of them and then no more.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

It's ok, it's your thread and the topics are related. As I said before, unfortunately it's hard to know with loperamide as dependence on it is rare and unstudied. One source lists the normal half-life as 10-15 hrs. 5 half-lives are usually used to calculate the time by which the vast majority of the drug would be eliminated. So that would be 50-75 hrs. Even if we said maybe the half-life was 20 hrs for a particular person, that would be 100 hrs. 100 hrs is just over 4 days. So one would assume peak withdrawals would be reached around then (if not sooner). I really think the withdrawals should be at their worst by now and start improving soon.

 

[truvision]

Okay,I went and took another half of a tab and it got a little better.Its just absolutely amazing that Im feeling this even through the tabs.I know this might sound overly dramatic but coming off loperamide on high amounts with nothing would be be wonderfully sadistic form of torture I cant even imagine. Ive even got clonidine and its still this bad!I really dont wanna go back to the kratom if I run out of the tabs but I might only have two more days on the tabs if I cant get more but if its anything close to this Ill be tossing and washing in no time.

It does feel like some sort of a peak though so hope you right.Ill try to stick it out, I thought about going back to taper but I feel like I would just ruin all Ive went through. Now that I know its most likely the peak that does help. Again thankyou, thankyou if even for the mental support. It has helped greatly esp in light of the fact that my family and BF doesnt understand this stuff and is also pretty sick of seeing me go through it as well so thier kinda numb to it. Cant say that I blame them but still, no one really knows till they go through it. Why I go back is the most baffling part though! Thankyou SO much though you have been a lifesaver for me esp with me not thinking clear right now.Have a good night!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I hope you have a good night too. I really think the withdrawals should be at their peak. It sounds like maybe you are more sensitive to loperamide than the average person and maybe that's why the WDs are so bad for you. Everyone's different and maybe you don't have a lot of the protein that removes it from the brain or something. Stay strong and try to stay positive (I know it's hard), I think you should start feeling better soon.

 

[truvision]

Yea Im just suuuper sensitive all around. I react harshly to everything but you were right swimming dancer THE PEAK IS OVER YEEE-HAH. Man Ill tell you at the peak it had me totally batflipped last night but I think Im def on the other side now. Now just two more steps to go, maybe couple more days of tabs and if I cant find no more tabs couple days of kratom in small doses (only because I have responsibilites that I have to get done in the upcoming week) and then Im quitting to go through the last and final few days of feeling like crap which I dont think will be nothing compared to this last one). This has been a BIG learning experience for me but sometimes we learn the most through the difficult ones. Again, swimmingdancer thanks. Sounds like you have most likely been through these experiences yourself in the past and know how it is so much appreciated!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yea Im just suuuper sensitive all around. I react harshly to everything but you were right swimming dancer THE PEAK IS OVER YEEE-HAH. Man Ill tell you at the peak it had me totally batflipped last night but I think Im def on the other side now. Now just two more steps to go, maybe couple more days of tabs and if I cant find no more tabs couple days of kratom in small doses (only because I have responsibilites that I have to get done in the upcoming week) and then Im quitting to go through the last and final few days of feeling like crap which I dont think will be nothing compared to this last one). This has been a BIG learning experience for me but sometimes we learn the most through the difficult ones. Again, swimmingdancer thanks. Sounds like you have most likely been through these experiences yourself in the past and know how it is so much appreciated!

I'm so glad to hear it's starting to get better now

I haven't gone through loperamide withdrawals myself, but I have gone through heroin, morphine and methadone withdrawal (methadone being the worst and longest-lating by far), so I have a lot of sympathy for people experiencing opioid withdrawal. Also I found loperamide affected me more than most, so even though so many people doubt that loperamide could cause significant CNS effects or be very dependence-causing, I believe it because everyone is different. I know what you mean about it being a learning experience. Methadone withdrawal has been so terrible for me it has scared me off ever wanting to use opioids again. If I ever get a craving to get high I just think of all the reasons that is a bad idea and feel like going through hell would have been wasted if I just go back to using opioids. Withdrawals also get harder every time and with the longer you've been on opioids, so it's definitely worth it to taper off them as soon as you can. Try to resist the urge to use any higher doses than absolutely necessary of the hydrocodone and kratom (if you end up using kratom, I think it might be wisest not to in your situation if you can). I think the hydrocodone withdrawals should be easier and shorter-lasting than the loperamide was for you, especially if you can taper off it.

Please feel free to PM me if you ever need any advice or just someone to talk to.

 

[truvision]

It is def. better but like all opiates do of course its coming back in waves( which I expected).I’ve been through heroin withdrawal as well and those were some of the darkest days I’ve ever been through for sure. The depression that follows for months afterwards was like nothing else. As far as Methadone withdrawal I would NEVER EVER want to go through that as I’ve heard that is by far the worst!

Major congrats to you for getting off of that. I almost went there a couple times in desperation but thank God someone who cared about me stopped me from doing it. I’m sure that would have ended me in the worst place ever. Your right I think it would be wiser for me just to stay on the tabs right now but only thing is todays my last day of my supply and I’ve got a couple responsibilities coming up tomorrow. I am going to try to use the VERY lowest amount of kratom and hopefully I will just have to use it for one day till I get more of the other.Even after that I plan to taper as fast as possible then just go through it once and for all.

I don’t even know if the kratom will even be that successful in keeping much at bay however, since like you said I am switching once again. I does seem like I can almost handle tab withdrawals MUCH easier than kratom for some odd reason.I hear people say the withdrawals are easy but not in my experience even after very ,very short term use it was hard for me.I think it’s the cross tolerance going on in my case.

But like you said I’m gonna really watch my amounts and keep them low. Thanks again for the support. I def might pm you sometime if you dont mind.%) And oh yea, ABSOLUTELY withdrawals do get worse and worse every time I have gone back whereas now I can take one pill of something and feel remnants of it for about 5 days. People think I’m nuts when I say that but I’m starting to now realize that because of my extensive past abuse with opiates its all down hill from here so once I get outta this one I’m seriously not going back! Hhe

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^I'll PM you so as not to clog up the thread