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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Etizolam - My drug hell

Regarding doctors, i am very hesitant about coming forward re etizolam. I feel they will be on my case and will feel 'smothered'. I have accepted i need help and in the early days my shrink was out 3 or 4 days a week, now it's down to once a week, sometimes a phone call. Even when i picked up an olanzapine script the receptionist said my doc is keeping an eye on my repeats. I just feel it will put a spanner in the works.

Shambles, i don't have great hopes with buspirone, but will stick with it. Valerian seems to cut a very slight edge off. Time for a camomile tea.
 
If you're on these meds for a serious illness, I reckon they wouldn't bat an eyelid, about sorting out a taper. Anything is better than taking a short-acting benzo, and not being able to taper properly.

I don't get many memory problems. I should have loads, but I keep my doses low - always have (except the odd recreational use). I still maintain that my long term use of diazepam (and others) is the reason I stopped being an anxious wreck, and started to feel human again. It taught me that I wasn't dying of some random illness. Coming off it might be something I may think about, but not for a while. Need to sort out a few other things first. If I feel better than I have done in 11 years, then surely the benzos have helped me out (been taking them for about seven years). I still feel the 'hit' from each dose. I don't take the piss, and I think that's the point.
 
Treacle said:
... If I feel better than I have done in 11 years, then surely the benzos have helped me out (been taking them for about seven years).
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May well be the case. Although I think many anxiety-type conditions do tend to ease up considerably as you get older - certainly did with me hence being able to mostly knock the benzos on the head quite a while back and only use 'em very occasionally know as required. Also, I'd imagine your life and outlook must have changed a lot since BabyTreac came along. But ya, benzos used judiciously and in moderation are the shizniz for certain conditions. Nothing better out there imo.
 
I hope you're right, because I've pretty much conceded that I'll require benzos for life. Only recently have I thought maybe I am improving...
 
atm23 said:
Really sorry to hear your having a hard time kace (and others) I got in really deep with Diaz and thought at one stage I would never be free of them and the booze.

Many of the symptoms you describe are, as I'm sure you know associated with anxiety and depression and Benzos give some relief from these, don't waste time trying to pick out what symptoms have been triggered by the drug use and what were there to begin with and likely triggered the use, it serves no purpose.

Don't beat yourself up for taking them, if you need them just now be thankful you have them.

I'd strongly advice seeing a doctor about you anxiety issues I have suffered in the past and left things way too long, my GP estimated that I should have been there 2 years before judging by the state of me when I eventually went. The impending doom feeling is horrible, waking up every day to it is should destroying, no wonder you need a few pills.

Counselling and CBT helped me back on the right track as did ADs, although they are not for all and I no longer take them, the benzos were fairly low on my list of things to sort out so when the time came I was in a much better place to deal with it.

Best Wishes
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Sorry for such a late response and thanks for your great input :)

Yeah, I think you're right. I've spent a lot of my time focusing on all the symptoms, which before did tbh help, as I genuinely thought I was going insane/ completely physically messed up.

I'm just grateful to be back on a valium taper at the moment, and have etiz as a back up just in case. The doctors think the anxiety will just go away as I taper off.. but I had bad anxiety before I took them.. and now it seems to of gone from social anxiety to general anxiety and agrophobia.

I've asked my doc many times to be referred to a proper counsellor/ shrink, as old issues are coming back, but as I'm still on my prescription they said they can't.
Ah well.. To be honest sometimes wish I could just taper down and stay on a low dose of benzos for ever. They make everything okay.
 
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I have to thank whoever said "3 days using" before some sort of withdrawal / negative effects are felt. Think there was some debate about that, but you were spot on for me.

5 days brought me to a bad place. Even though you know its just thoughts, I was quite taken aback by the dark, life isn't worth living ones. It's been some time since I've had dark depressed thoughts like that now and it was scary to return to them even when you know its just the etizolam-stuff doing it.

I really don't like the stuff, but its handy as hell to have around. Thankfully I've not felt an addictive pull and what I thought was a dose of anxiety just turned out to be moving house stress that easily passed. Further use was incurred to climb down off mxe on work nights.

And a big thanks to Issmeebee for posting this thread and drawing our attention to the problems with this one.
 
Benzo dependence and withdrawal is absolutely terrible, I know that from experience. Take good care of yourself man! :)
 
kate said:
I have to thank whoever said "3 days using" before some sort of withdrawal / negative effects are felt. Think there was some debate about that, but you were spot on for me.
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I read about this elsewhere prior to going on a recent two week break and thought it was a bit of an extreme comment. However, after getting back on them this past week it's been a horrendous ordeal just trying to get myself out of bed in the morning. It's somewhat akin to being smashed about the head with a sledgehammer. And I've been on them on and off for over a year now. Can you even imagine?. 8(

kate said:
5 days brought me to a bad place. Even though you know its just thoughts, I was quite taken aback by the dark, life isn't worth living ones. It's been some time since I've had dark depressed thoughts like that now and it was scary to return to them even when you know its just the etizolam-stuff doing it.
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I feel this. It's a dreadful place to find yourself, so I'm glad you've passed that stage. <3

Solipsis said:
Benzo dependence and withdrawal is absolutely terrible, I know that from experience. Take good care of yourself man! :)
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Word.
 
bad times :( <3

3 days use, ill remember that. ive taken them 2 days in a row if i remember, with valium the day before, with booze, felt some odd anxiety
 
kate said:
And a big thanks to Issmeebee for posting this thread and drawing our attention to the problems with this one.
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Thank you kate. And I believe it was yours truly who said 3 days too so I must be in your good books this week :)
 
It's early days but i'm just about managing on 6 mgs a day spread in seperate doses. I'm starting to feel lower doses that just about takes the edginess away. However, when i take my nightly olanzapine,it eradicates all anxiety. I look forward to my olanzapine. I counted my etiz today. I have just over 600. I feel i am getting somewhere and am starting a strict regime.
 
Scrooloose-

I went (am) on a several month binge, getting up to 80-100 mg a day ( 40-50 mg a shot) of the Intas etilaam, but then averaged out at 30 mg 2x daily. I've done a quick taper, and splitting the dose up, due to the short half life, is essential. I'm now at 4 mg 4x daily, and it was difficult at first to break up the doses, but once done makes tapering so much easier. It's a weird one , so alpha2 selective, that it's withdrawal is a bit different than classic 1,4 diazepines ( Valium, etc). I considered going the doc route, but coming from a past riddled with benzo abuse I figured I'd take the selectivity of etizolam rather than starting to agonize the other 2 BZD sites again! Plus, no doc is gonna say, "ok you are stabilized on 60 mg of an unapproved thienodiazepine you are acquiring by your own means, so the dosage equivalent is, oh, 400-600 mg of Valium a day, we'll start you off there, here is a script, for 3000 10 mg vallies for the first week" :D

So I go it alone. Dividing the dose to 4 hr intervals was key for me. I'm now dropping a mg a day, then every third day stay on that dose for 3 days, rinse lather repeat. And like I said, going from 60 mg avg a day to now 16 in just a few weeks time hasn't been that bad. I cut my dose by about 40% initially, going to 20 mg 2x daily, stayed there for an uncomfortable but completely bearable weak, then divided the dose 4 x daily, and began the regime I'm on now. WAY easier than mega dosing 2x a day. I figure once I get down to 1 mg 4 x daily I will slow it down, and then jump at .25 mg a day.

Having undergone LONG Valium and clonazepam tapers and CT alprazolam experiences this has been FAR easier than any of those. 16 mg a day is still a hefty dose, and the difficulties might come later, but it is miles better than where I was. FYI I started etizolam daily in October, and having had experience with it for a few years prior off and on my tolerance rose rapidly, from 10 mg daily to 30mg by November, to 60 mg by December.

The stuff is so cheap straight from the wholesaler and for me lacks so many of the "bad" benzo side effects ( blackouts, bad amnesia, etc) that is was easy to get to retarded dosage levels fast. I get some memory impairment but nothing like a classic BZD. Sex drive is GONE however, goddamn prolactin release! No man tits yet though. I Would get RLS on super high doses (50mg and more) and I attributed this to the dopamine suppression inherent. I will be glad to be done with this one, turned me into a pretty dull fella fast. Life already coming back into me. Will jump with the help of gabapentin , Baclofen, kava, or valerian. They all help. Good luck, keep us posted, and I will do the same.

Cheers
 
Yeah tell me about it, eh? Either tolerance to the alpha2 receptor builds differently than the other BZD subtypes or perhaps there is a ceiling effect. I mean, at the worst, a month ago, 50 mg would just relax me, and unless you knew me REALLY well you'd never know I was on such a thing. My first experiences with etizolam were 3-4 years ago and 2-3 mg was great. And I got a certain euphoria that disappeared long ago. It turned nto very generic relaxation, combined with a little energy. It supposedly effects serotonin and norepinephrine as well, according to the fact sheet, but to wha degree I don't know? This could contribute to the odd withdrawal as well. I sure as shit hope coming off the last few mg isn't gonna be like a cross between a BZD and an antidepressant! One thing at a time for cripes sake! But, I am an endless appetite for substances, ie burning through grams of PV years ago, grams of 2-fma in a night. Now it's just me and my etizolam taper. Oh, anda concurrent kratom taper, which is its own beast. Ahhhh, restraint, where hast thou gone? ;) lost that fucker 15 years ago methinks!
 
amanitadine said:
Scrooloose-

I went (am) on a several month binge, getting up to 80-100 mg a day ( 40-50 mg a shot) of the Intas etilaam, but then averaged out at 30 mg 2x daily. I've done a quick taper, and splitting the dose up, due to the short half life, is essential. I'm now at 4 mg 4x daily, and it was difficult at first to break up the doses, but once done makes tapering so much easier. It's a weird one , so alpha2 selective, that it's withdrawal is a bit different than classic 1,4 diazepines ( Valium, etc). I considered going the doc route, but coming from a past riddled with benzo abuse I figured I'd take the selectivity of etizolam rather than starting to agonize the other 2 BZD sites again! Plus, no doc is gonna say, "ok you are stabilized on 60 mg of an unapproved thienodiazepine you are acquiring by your own means, so the dosage equivalent is, oh, 400-600 mg of Valium a day, we'll start you off there, here is a script, for 3000 10 mg vallies for the first week" :D

So I go it alone. Dividing the dose to 4 hr intervals was key for me. I'm now dropping a mg a day, then every third day stay on that dose for 3 days, rinse lather repeat. And like I said, going from 60 mg avg a day to now 16 in just a few weeks time hasn't been that bad. I cut my dose by about 40% initially, going to 20 mg 2x daily, stayed there for an uncomfortable but completely bearable weak, then divided the dose 4 x daily, and began the regime I'm on now. WAY easier than mega dosing 2x a day. I figure once I get down to 1 mg 4 x daily I will slow it down, and then jump at .25 mg a day.

Having undergone LONG Valium and clonazepam tapers and CT alprazolam experiences this has been FAR easier than any of those. 16 mg a day is still a hefty dose, and the difficulties might come later, but it is miles better than where I was. FYI I started etizolam daily in October, and having had experience with it for a few years prior off and on my tolerance rose rapidly, from 10 mg daily to 30mg by November, to 60 mg by December.

The stuff is so cheap straight from the wholesaler and for me lacks so many of the "bad" benzo side effects ( blackouts, bad amnesia, etc) that is was easy to get to retarded dosage levels fast. I get some memory impairment but nothing like a classic BZD. Sex drive is GONE however, goddamn prolactin release! No man tits yet though. I Would get RLS on super high doses (50mg and more) and I attributed this to the dopamine suppression inherent. I will be glad to be done with this one, turned me into a pretty dull fella fast. Life already coming back into me. Will jump with the help of gabapentin , Baclofen, kava, or valerian. They all help. Good luck, keep us posted, and I will do the same.

Cheers
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great post, I'd give you a gold star for this if I could.
 
Scrooloose, or anybody else struggling with this fucker. . . Hows a going? Me, I'm down to 2.5 mg x 4 daily, gonna hold here for 4-5 days, been here two already, and have had completely fucked endless dreams and very restless sleep. But I'm not laying awake all night, just short bursts saturated with Lynchian imagery, disturbing what goes on in the subconscious when it's been constipated for a long time!

Anyhow, still not bad of a taper. Probably put some powder in PG for the real low doses (.5 mg x4 ) and just go ever so slowly. Much more alive then when I was caining 100 mg a day. What A fricking surprise! But, so far so good. Just gotta want to do it. Really want to! It's hard to not pop 20 mg after a week of work, which is why I surrendered the supply to ms. Amanitadine, who was more than happy to assist as I had become quite the dullard. :) so, my nurse doles out my daily dose 4 x a day, and that has made it a lot easier. She is smart enough to hide em from me too :D
 
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You've done very well my man, very well indeed. Me i have fucked up after managing on 6 mgs and finding daytime anxiety diminishing. I ordered stims :X and feel like beatin myself with a baseball bat. 20 mgs down, maybe a few more......................so i start all over again, maybe eight mgs for the first week, 7, the next then i am gonna go back to six, maybe for two weeks then see how i get on and maybe drop to five. I know i can do this, it's easier than i thought. As you say, spacing doses is the key.

Once again well done. You also mentioned a kratom addiction. Out of interest, how many grams were you going through a day, if you don't mind me asking?

Kratom is about the only substance i've never had a problem with (yet)
 
Thanks man. Yeah if i threw stims in the mix this taper would be fuck all done! I used About 50 gm a day of kratom for a year or so, got me off of a few years of suboxone, preceded by a decade or so worth of dope. Kratom is a far better maintenance drug than suboxone IMO for oh so many reasons. . Ceiling effect, self limiting, doesn't leave you so so soulless, and is pretty gentle. The withdrawals from such a high amount were nasty, as i didnt taper at all, but not near as bad as traditional opiates. It's pretty mild really, in it's effects. If you have a tolerance to opioids you probably won't get much out of it, but I jumped from 1 mg of suboxone without too much pain and after about two weeks started getting positive effects from the kratom besides just withdrawal amelioration, a nice mellow buzz. It got better the longer i was away from sub. It is short acting, hence the 50 gms a day (7-8 g every 3-4 hrs) but is really pretty great for getting off of nastier stuff.

All that said, I'm back on it now, as it sure makes the etizolam taper more bearable. ;) I figure get the real nasty one out of the way first, and then once the debris is cleared work on the kratom. Having just gone through it I'm not too worked about it. And then use etizolam to get off kratom, ad infinitum ;)

Cheers man, keep it up. A week or so ago I ordered 50mg etizolam in 5 ml PG as I was "thinking ahead" for the end of my taper. Ha. Downed the baby over the course of about 8 hours, got nice and loopy, and then resumed the taper the next day haha. Icky two days, but then back on track. Shit happens, eh?
 
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