Treatment Educate me on methadone / buprenorphine

[cdin]

So basically the opposite from what was recommended, do a fast taper. I honestly don't know, I guess I will just follow the docs advice, although I d much rather go slow and steady, it fits more my personality

As for docs wanting to keep people on high dose, that's beyond cruel and inhumane and I can only wish for the worst to befall those bastards

if you pop for another drug - they up you. if you pop for anothe ope - they up you. if you tell the doc "i don't feel so hot" they up you. Everything in the methadone program is geared toward making lifer addicts that will return for the cup and pay up. They will actively tell you "oh you shouldn't go so fast, or taper at all, it will just lead to cravings" etc. --- I cannot speak from personal experience, only observation. Those i know that listened to the docs, still go to the methadone clinic. those that were insistent, some made it off/out.

 

[menidiatis]

if you pop for another drug - they up you. if you pop for anothe ope - they up you. if you tell the doc "i don't feel so hot" they up you. Everything in the methadone program is geared toward making lifer addicts that will return for the cup and pay up. They will actively tell you "oh you shouldn't go so fast, or taper at all, it will just lead to cravings" etc. --- I cannot speak from personal experience, only observation. Those i know that listened to the docs, still go to the methadone clinic. those that were insistent, some made it off/out.

I presume you are talking about the situation in the US though, am I right? I don't know how the health insurance works there at all, from what you describe I presume that the doctors there have a financial benefit by keeping addicts on methadone?

I live in the Netherlands, and unless I am mistaken, the doctor here gains nothing by keeping an addict on the methadone, I think they just get paid their salary regardless of whether they are treating 10 or 100 addicts at a time, I don't think they get some percentage from the pharmacy or they get extra money from the insurer depending on how much methadone I take or whatever. Again I have no clue about health insurance systems and I might be talking complete bs but here in NL I really don't see what would the doctor gain by keeping me on the methadone.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

So basically the opposite from what was recommended, do a fast taper. I honestly don't know, I guess I will just follow the docs advice, although I d much rather go slow and steady, it fits more my personality

this is incredibly subjective and every addict will give you a different answer

in my experience, slow taper seems like the better, more comfortable option... but in reality, it simply makes it even worse. Would you rather hurt badly for 7 days? or hurt continuously but less intense for 6 weeks?

Would you rather rip off the bandaid in one swoop, only hurting for a few seconds? or do you want to rip it off painfully slowly?

rapid tapers hurt more in those few days, but heal you much more quickly

and after 20 years, after all I've learned and have suffered through, I've realized that rapid tapers are the best. I think cold turkey is even better... but don't blame anyone for not wanting to do it.

In my overall opinion, a rapid taper will get you where you're trying to get much more quickly and with overall less pain than a long taper. But it's all case by case.

Now... rapid tapers and cold turkey are simply not an option for some people. If you have a job and lots of responsibilities, a long taper may be required.

I have locked myself in a room for 10 days and have cold turkey heroin, fent, benzos, etc.. In the end, it's always served me better than some long taper. But locking yourself in a room for 10 days is simply not an option for a lot of people.

jumping into a pool of freezing water is a hell of a lot easier in the end than inching down into it over an hour

 

[menidiatis]

this is incredibly subjective and every addict will give you a different answer

in my experience, slow taper seems like the better, more comfortable option... but in reality, it simply makes it even worse. Would you rather hurt badly for 7 days? or hurt continuously but less intense for 6 weeks?

Would you rather rip off the bandaid in one swoop, only hurting for a few seconds? or do you want to rip it off painfully slowly?

rapid tapers hurt more in those few days, but heal you much more quickly

and after 20 years, after all I've learned and have suffered through, I've realized that rapid tapers are the best. I think cold turkey is even better... but don't blame anyone for not wanting to do it.

In my overall opinion, a rapid taper will get you where you're trying to get much more quickly and with overall less pain than a long taper. But it's all case by case.

Now... rapid tapers and cold turkey are simply not an option for some people. If you have a job and lots of responsibilities, a long taper may be required.

I have locked myself in a room for 10 days and have cold turkey heroin, fent, benzos, etc.. In the end, it's always served me better than some long taper. But locking yourself in a room for 10 days is simply not an option for a lot of people.

jumping into a pool of freezing water is a hell of a lot easier in the end than inching down into it over an hour

I understand the mentality, but for sensitive people like me, and having been tortured a lot in life, fast tapers let alone cold turkey is not my cup of tea

I understand that with methadone it could take an eternity (meaning years) but if you taper slow enough most probably you will not feel so horrible right?

So if you start eg 120mg, and taper 5mg every month, then you reach 50mg taper 2mg every month, then you reach 10mg taper 1 mg every month etc (I am pulling the numbers out of thin air but you get the point) then I would presume that it is not so horrible right? It is painfully slow and a pain in the ass, but the controlled nature of this taper allows it to be rather painless I would presume (please correct me if I am wrong), just very troublesome in terms of how long it takes

Also, I have a uni to finish in the meanwhile, and because I decided to jump back the last moment, I owe a lot of courses

So cold turkey H is not an option for me in any way quite frankly

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I understand the mentality, but for sensitive people like me, and having been tortured a lot in life, fast tapers let alone cold turkey is not my cup of tea

Yeah, I know man. I understand both sides. Just don't forget that a large part of the awfulness, especially on a taper, is psychological in nature.

If I start thinking about withdrawal, or it's possibility in the future, I will start feeling that withdrawal even though it's not actually occurring

that's the evil in drug addiction

I understand that with methadone it could take an eternity (meaning years) but if you taper slow enough most probably you will not feel so horrible right?

Yes, you won't feel so horrible with a slow taper.

but the honest truth is most of the people I've known, and still know, who start on methadone never get off it... ever... or it takes 10+ years

So if you start eg 120mg, and taper 5mg every month, then you reach 50mg taper 2mg every month, then you reach 10mg taper 1 mg every month etc (I am pulling the numbers out of thin air but you get the point) then I would presume that it is not so horrible right? It is painfully slow and a pain in the ass, but the controlled nature of this taper allows it to be rather painless I would presume (please correct me if I am wrong), just very troublesome in terms of how long it takes

Also, I have a uni to finish in the meanwhile, and because I decided to jump back the last moment, I owe a lot of courses

So cold turkey H is not an option for me in any way quite frankly

yeah man, there is nothing wrong with a long taper

I think it really all depends on how long you've been on heroin

if it's only been a few months a long taper probably isn't required

 

[menidiatis]

Yeah, I know man. I understand both sides. Just don't forget that a large part of the awfulness, especially on a taper, is psychological in nature.

If I start thinking about withdrawal, or it's possibility in the future, I will start feeling that withdrawal even though it's not actually occurring

that's the evil in drug addiction


Yes, you won't feel so horrible with a slow taper.

but the honest truth is most of the people I've known, and still know, who start on methadone never get off it... ever... or it takes 10+ years


yeah man, there is nothing wrong with a long taper

I think it really all depends on how long you've been on heroin

if it's only been a few months a long taper probably isn't required

I am less than a year on it, I believe around 8 months, this friday I go to the gp to get referred to methadone clinic, I hope they can accept me immedietally and not have me wait months, then if 50mg is enough to keep WDs away, maybe I can go 5mg every 2 weeks, and then at 10mg, maybe I can do 2mg every 2 weeks and be done like around by the end of the summer of sth? I hope something like that would work

ALSO, regarding what you say that thinking about WD brings WD before it comes physically, I try to remiund myself that as long as my pupils are constricted my body is actually on enough morphine, isn't that actually true? I try to avoid nocebo effect like that

 

[axe battler]

It depends where you are and how it works but here you see a doctor/key worker once a month, though I was going in more regularly than that at one point.
Then they do your presentation and send it to the pharmacy every 2 weeks. So yes dropping by a little every 2 weeks is doable.
60-70mg should be enough for most people... Even though I'm on 95 haha but I've been on it a while and they put me up... Try and stay on as low a dose as possible and try not to be tempted into going up.
I don't know if I'll be happier when I get off it, but I hate having drugs tests and key workers and just being addicted still...

 

[Jabberwocky]

guys can i remind you we are in H&R

i've just deleted a load of posts. please keep things respectful in here.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I mean the guy is obviously a troll so I am just trolling back

feel free to move this to the lounge thanks

yeah i realised that, you were clearly giving what you got.

if you'd prefer it to stay as a H&R thread we can keep it cos there have been some great posts in here.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

The main advantages of opioid-replacement-therapy are:

1. You will be getting a safe supply compared to the unpredictable level of purity and impurity and problems with the dope-market. Heroin cut with fentanyl and benzodiazepines and whatever the hell else. From a purely harm-reduction perspective, reducing the possibility of OD and infections from impurities is a big pro.

2. One will get to experience a level of general stability in your daily routine and hopefully mood when compared to the lifestyle of needing to go out and cop and all of the activities associated with obtaining what you need to not get sick.

3. From #2 will come the opportunity to free up one’s thoughts to try to inquire about the real and true source of one’s pain and distress leading you to seek out a numbing agent to begin with. Some people experience the opportunity to learn a great deal about themselves and that then further leads to an even greater desire to be free of all substances Methadone and Suboxone included.

Good luck on your journey. I hope you find the answers you are looking for in life and I truly believe that you can achieve your full potential in this life.

Peace.

 

[Jabberwocky]

yeah i completely agree, he was out of line and i've asked the other H&R mods to take a look and decide if any further action is required. i'm sorry this happened.

i know people hate being a snitch but do use the report button. we never reveal who has reported a specific post and the other poster was obviously out of line here.

 

[menidiatis]

yeah i completely agree, he was out of line and i've asked the other H&R mods to take a look and decide if any further action is required. i'm sorry this happened.

i know people hate being a snitch but do use the report button. we never reveal who has reported a specific post and the other poster was obviously out of line here.

thank you so much for caring for me it's heart warming

I was not really bothered by his comments but this shouldn't happen in general, somebody else could actually take guys like him seriously and be hurt while in a vulnerable state askng for help

 

[menidiatis]

The main advantages of opioid-replacement-therapy are:

1. You will be getting a safe supply compared to the unpredictable level of purity and impurity and problems with the dope-market. Heroin cut with fentanyl and benzodiazepines and whatever the hell else. From a purely harm-reduction perspective, reducing the possibility of OD and infections from impurities is a big pro.

2. One will get to experience a level of general stability in your daily routine and hopefully mood when compared to the lifestyle of needing to go out and cop and all of the activities associated with obtaining what you need to not get sick.

3. From #2 will come the opportunity to free up one’s thoughts to try to inquire about the real and true source of one’s pain and distress leading you to seek out a numbing agent to begin with. Some people experience the opportunity to learn a great deal about themselves and that then further leads to an even greater desire to be free of all substances Methadone and Suboxone included.

Good luck on your journey. I hope you find the answers you are looking for in life and I truly believe that you can achieve your full potential in this life.

Peace.

Thank you so much appreciate it a lot

 

[Derschieber]

I mean the guy is obviously a troll so I am just trolling back

feel free to move this to the lounge thanks

I'm not trolling. I believe what you said. Your strong desire for someone to hug. You've mentioned it on several occasions, and I believe you.
It is certainly a legitimate desire.
I meant what I said. I also believe you know I'm basically, more or less right. Nothing you've said offends me.
The path you're on leads to no hugs. But you can still turn around.
Please explore other options.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I d be more concerned if you get hugs for yourself, which is unlikely considering how badly you crave my attention

Please piss off my thread alr it is a serious thread here not for trolling hahahahaa

Didn't @chinup ask you nicely to not engage. Dershe isn't trolling he is counteracting an opinion. Just don't engage and the thread will move along nicely. Post your comments and opinions....just don't take offense if someone doesn't agree.

 

[menidiatis]

Didn't @chinup ask you nicely to not engage. Dershe isn't trolling he is counteracting an opinion. Just don't engage and the thread will move along nicely. Post your comments and opinions....just don't take offense if someone doesn't agree.

He is mocking me, why should I sit and tolerate this? Easy for you to say since you are not the one mocked right?

Of course it is my fault that I decided to be vulnerable online and show weakness and ask for help, consequently giving the power to some lonely loser to make fun of me while pretending he is helping me, as if I ever asked for help from his pathetic ass.

If you wanna protect him so he can continue to be condescending against me, go on, ban me if you want, but don't think even for a moment I will tolerate some pathetic dick face making fun of me like this.

As for @Derschieber I am ok, your mom gave me a loving hug so I am good for today

 

[Nurse Ratched]

He is mocking me, why should I sit and tolerate this? Easy for you to say since you are not the one mocked right?

Of course it is my fault that I decided to be vulnerable online and show weakness and ask for help, consequently giving the power to some lonely loser to make fun of me while pretending he is helping me, as if I ever asked for help from his pathetic ass.

If you wanna protect him so he can continue to be condescending against me, go on, ban me if you want, but don't think even for a moment I will tolerate some pathetic dick face making fun of me like this.

As for @Derschieber I am ok, your mom gave me a loving hug so I am good for today

Sorry you feel that way. I'm not seeing what you are nor am I protecting anyone. You can stay on topic and stop with the back and forth and keep the thread open. Or keep it up and it will be closed.

No one is going to ban you. Simply asking for the insults to stop. Choice is yours.

 

[menidiatis]

Sorry you feel that way. I'm not seeing what you are nor am I protecting anyone. You can stay on topic and stop with the back and forth and keep the thread open. Or keep it up and it will be closed.

No one is going to ban you. Simply asking for the insults to stop. Choice is yours.

Then I kindly ask you to close down the thread

I am not a person who sits and tolerates being attacked, let alone unfairly

If this guy doesn't get sufficient human attention in real life I am not obliged to suffer the consequences of this

Thank you

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Then I kindly ask you to close down the thread

I am not a person who sits and tolerates being attacked, let alone unfairly

If this guy doesn't get sufficient human attention in real life I am not obliged to suffer the consequences of this

Thank you

We'll see where it goes. If it stays on topic and comments are related to your original question it can stay open. You have to remember that you have 10 or more open threads in 4 different forums and they are about your heroin addiction and questions about having enough, getting enough, how to ingest, and other stuff.

Sometimes posters can get threads mixed up as they have read a different one and are actually answering this one. You seem to have a pretty tough skin. Don't take random comments personally. Just concentrate on the good ones you are getting and continue fighting the good fight. You get a lot of good answers on your other open threads so I'd say that's a good thing.

If you don't like where this one is going or don't want to ignore dersh then you can always delete it as well. But I hope you keep it open and let it calm down a bit and see what happens.

 

[menidiatis]

We'll see where it goes. If it stays on topic and comments are related to your original question it can stay open. You have to remember that you have 10 or more open threads in 4 different forums and they are about your heroin addiction and questions about having enough, getting enough, how to ingest, and other stuff.

Sometimes posters can get threads mixed up as they have read a different one and are actually answering this one. You seem to have a pretty tough skin. Don't take random comments personally. Just concentrate on the good ones you are getting and continue fighting the good fight. You get a lot of good answers on your other open threads so I'd say that's a good thing.

If you don't like where this one is going or don't want to ignore dersh then you can always delete it as well. But I hope you keep it open and let it calm down a bit and see what happens.

Alright thank you for your concern, I won't engage anymore cause I think a lot of unnecessary drama has already taken place

But it is clear to me that this guy doesn't want to help me, he just pretends he does in order to mock me and I really don't get his problem, I have never engaged before with him and yet he has something personal with me as he goes around all the forums finding posts of me to quote in an attempt to "humiliate" me. All while pretending that he is trying to save me, as if I asked for his help or he is a God who knows the answers to my problems after reading a few posts of mine on this forum.

Imo unacceptable behavior a more sensitive person could easily be hurt if mocked when in such a vulnerable state, and people who behave like him usually do this because the same was done to them and, unable to extract revenge on those who hurt them, they try to hurt innocent others in an attempt to feel good about themselves. Imo a display of a weak character. I am not being mocking here or trolling, I am expressing my genuine opinion as to why I think someone acts in this inappropriate manner.

Please do not delete this post, again I am not mocking here or being derogatory

from now on I will also not interact with this user in any way, feeding the troll is not good, just I kindly ask you all you guys who are mods to protect users from him

Thanks a lot