Ecstasy brain damage?

[Shambles]

I didn't say that the article was or wasn't true - I specifically said I didn't know because I've not heard it being mentioned since then. I also said that it made some sense to me and I would be interested to see if anything came of it.

I was just pointing out that the piece was written ten years ago when even less was known and there were a ton of theories that we all know now were well wide of the mark. As I said, it would be interesting to see what ever to the sleep-cycle idea because it sound pretty reasonable to me.

Helps if you read the words actually written that you're responding to before you respond to them sometimes

 

[bben]

I didn't say that the article was or wasn't true - I specifically said I didn't know because I've not heard it being mentioned since then. I also said that it made some sense to me and I would be interested to see if anything came of it.

I was just pointing out that the piece was written ten years ago when even less was known and there were a ton of theories that we all know now were well wide of the mark. As I said, it would be interesting to see what ever to the sleep-cycle idea because it sound pretty reasonable to me.

Helps if you read the words actually written that you're responding to before you respond to them sometimes

Ok sorry for jumping on you, it just came off like you instantly dismissed the article and im sick of people defending ecstasy at all costs. The main reason i jump to defend it, is because fatigue and insomnia seem to REALLY common in ecstasy users, so this article would make alot of sense.

 

[tek75]

I realise my case may be fairly unusual having not recovered after 4 years but i have never touched antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs.
(i felt treating a chemical imbalance with other chemicals might not be the most natural way to recover but that might have been the worse choice i made!)

Has anyone sped up their recovery / eased the long term mental health issues caused my ecstasy with nootropics/smart drugs, antidepressants, anti anxiety drugs etc? (or even screwed themselves up more.... who knows!)

My choice not to touch these sort of drugs may be why the road has been so very long to recovery!

Months ago i posted a similar topic, i remember Matt2012 posting an inspirational post saying recovery is very long (many years) but completely reversible (in his case anyway)
It'll be nice to hear his input in the points raised in this discussion or anyone else who's taken longer than me to fully recover.

 

[rickolasnice]

^ yes.. SSRI's definately help me..

I've just ordered some nootropics (piracetam + choline) so don't jump straight into the SSRI boat.. they might work even better i'll let you know..

 

[Worrgames]

Months ago i posted a similar topic, i remember Matt2012 posting an inspirational post saying recovery is very long (many years) but completely reversible (in his case anyway)

I did a quick search for it, but didn't see it. Do you have a link?

 

[MeDieViL]

Tek; I haven't noticed much for social anxiety. I grew up being a quiet person, and if anything, ecstasy improved me socially. I am less timid in social situations now.

I abused MDMA quite heavily (first 2 weeks was taking it allmost daily) after that i slowed down to 6 pills every friday and every saterday, after a few months i slowed down to once a week.
After 8 months i stopped using for 2 months and half, after that i started using again weekly for 4 months.

I never noticed any bad side effects except the comedown, my social anxiety has premanently improved and my mood is better then ever.

Note that I dit ONLY take XTC tough, i didnt smoke weed or take any other drug. I did take piracetam for 2 months or something wich may be neuroprotective.

 

[roller11dude]

Yeah, i have social anxiety myself and i abused MDMA quite heavily (first 2 weeks was taking it allmost daily) after that i slowed down to 6 pills every friday and every saterday, after a few months i slowed down to once a week.
After 8 months i stopped using for 2 months and half, after that i started using again weekly for 4 months.

I never noticed any bad side effects except the comedown, my social anxiety has premanently improved and my mood is better then ever.

Note that I dit ONLY take XTC tough, i didnt smoke weed or take any other drug. I did take piracetam for 2 months or something wich may be neuroprotective.

holy shit!! your so lucky lol. wish i had the balls to roll that much.. although i do have piracetam.. maybe theres really something to it..

 

[Ant0lak]

I have no evidence of this, but from experience after rolling a lot it does fuck with my head and emotions and it doesn't go away for a long time.

 

[matt2012]

Tek, Man I feel for you....

I wish I could say just stick it out and you will be back to normal in no time but you know as well as I do that nobody can tell you when or if your problems will go away.

I showed significant improvement in every area after 4 years. I was a poly-drug user but really only abused MDxx about the same as you did. ( ~2years-every weekend and sometimes during the week-multiple pills in a night...ect) but after 4 years I was feeling back to my old self again. Maybe not 100% but definitely 80%-90%. For me just 2 years was enough for me to call a total turn around just a few minor things still noticeable.

My recover seemed to come in "milestone" if you would. I would go for a while noticing trouble finding words or losing train of thought or some other thing that I attributed to my MDMA abuse. It went on so long that I accepted them as permanent and just tried to live with them. Then one day I would notice that I couldn't remember the last time I was searching for words or forgot where I was going with a story. And it was like !BAM! a realization that this symptom was gone. I could almost feel that it had been purged from me. Its really kind of neat now that I can look back on it.

If you are looking for my advice, my answer depends on how crippled you perceive yourself to be by this cloud that surrounds you. If you find it so debilitating that you just want it gone or would do anything to get back to the way you were; the only thing you can do is seek help from a doctor. But if you see yourself recovering, albeit slower than mine, and are not too bothered by the effects then I would wait a bit longer. Maybe in another 6 months or a year you will notice a "milestone" and get a glimpse of the light at the end of the tunnel.

some of you have probably never worked out a day in your life, no offense...but seriously dudes, that shit helps a lot. it reboots your body and brain... and so does a balanced diet.. drink a lot of water even when not rolling.... water is good for you.

This was a great help for me. I started running every night. I got healthier and improved my "mental toughness" as well trying to run father and farther. you would be amazed what it can do for your mood and energy levels too. I am not sure if it helped with my cognative recovery but it did a improve my mental state.

 

[MeDieViL]

holy shit!! your so lucky lol. wish i had the balls to roll that much.. although i do have piracetam.. maybe theres really something to it..

Maybe not taking any other drugs except MDMA is the key? Those studies suggest that its rather poly drug use that causes problems and not MDMA on its own, in my personal experience i can definatly confirm that heavy mdma use didnt cause me any long lasting problems. I didnt even smoke weed didnt drink any alcohol or nothing, MDMA was the only drug i took.

I doubt piracetam plays a big role as ive only taken it for 2 months or something.
Piracetam did impact the comedown the next week and greatly reduced it.

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2007 Mar;39(1):31-9.Links
Is recreational ecstasy (MDMA) use associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms?
Guillot C.

University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS, USA. [email protected]

Due to potential serotonergic deficits, 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or Ecstasy) may cause long-term mood disruptions in recreational Ecstasy users. The purpose of this review is to evaluate the evidence for a relationship between recreational Ecstasy use and higher levels of depressive symptoms. Eleven out of 22 studies initially have reported significantly higher depression scores in Ecstasy users in comparison to control participants. However, only three studies ultimately have revealed significantly higher depression scores in comparison to cannabis or polydrug controls. Furthermore, most studies have suffered from methodological weaknesses, and the levels of depressive symptoms that have been found in Ecstasy users have not been shown to be much higher than those found in normative groups. The evidence for an association specifically between Ecstasy use and higher levels of depressive symptoms is currently unconvincing, but the frequent concomitant use of Ecstasy and other illicit drugs has been shown to be associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms. Possible causes include polydrug use in general, MDMA-induced serotonergic deficits, individual effects of illicit drugs besides Ecstasy, combined effects of MDMA and other illicit drugs, and preexisting differences in the levels of depressive symptoms in Ecstasy users.

PMID: 17523583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Drug Alcohol Depend. 2007 Mar 16;87(2-3):303-11. Epub 2006 Oct 30.Click here to read Click here to read Links
Anxiety, depression, and behavioral symptoms of executive dysfunction in ecstasy users: contributions of polydrug use.
Medina KL, Shear PK.

Department of Psychiatry, University of California at San Diego, 3350 La Jolla Village Drive (151B), San Diego, CA 92161, USA. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Given ecstasy's (MDMA) potential serotonergic neurotoxicity, it is plausible that regular ecstasy users would have an elevated prevalence of behavioral executive dysfunction or mood symptoms. However, recent studies have found that the relationship between ecstasy use and psychological symptoms was no longer significant after controlling for marijuana use (e.g., Morgan et al., 2002). The goal of the present study was to examine the relationship between ecstasy exposure and self-reported executive functioning and psychological symptoms after controlling for gender, ethnicity, and other drug use. METHODS: Data were collected from 65 men and women with a wide range of ecstasy use (including 17 marijuana-using controls). Participants were administered the Frontal Systems Behavioral Scale, State-Trait Anxiety Inventory for adults, and the Beck Depression Inventory-2nd edition. RESULTS: Although 19-63% of the ecstasy users demonstrated clinically elevated psychological symptoms, frequency of ecstasy use did not predict the psychological symptoms. No gender differences or interactions were observed. CONCLUSIONS: These results revealed that, although ecstasy users demonstrate elevated levels of psychological symptoms and executive dysfunction, these symptoms are not statistically associated with their ecstasy consumption. Instead, other drug use (alcohol, marijuana, opioids, and inhalants) significantly predict psychological symptoms in this sample of polydrug users.

PMID: 17074449 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[tek75]

Thanks Matt2012, hopefully it will be like you say, things will fall back in to place eventually.
I obsess loads over the damage i've done but thankfully don't get depressed so will wait and see!

I still find myself losing track if i read an article online / read a newspaper etc and have to read the same paragraph more than once and sometimes even forgetting parts of what i was reading!
Also struggle to follow a film, even now after all this time, hitting the rewind button loads of times when the plot of the film changes is no fun! Think these concentration / learning issues along with the facial sweating are the worst symptoms and most frustrating. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!

It's really scary that ecstasy can give you such a cognitive kick in the balls!

I haven't touched weed for 2 1/2 years, i'm always tempted to light up again but think it will slow recovery and is not worth it? (loved weed so much but the anxiety and paranoia was too much so quit)

Did you drink alcohol / smoke weed in those 4 years? Sometimes i think drinking fairly heavily once a week isn't helping ( 5 - 6 pints on a friday / saturday night)

 

[matt2012]

See I was drug free (except for alcohol) for my entier recovery. Not because I wanted to be but I had fallen out of the scene and moved to a place where there was no rave scene and I didn't know anyone. Also when I did find the players that could get drugs I came off as a bit of an ass because I knew all the tricks and was moe knowledgible than the guys trying to sell stuff. the only thing anyone was selling was weed anyway and I had quit smoking it for the same reasons as you. The paranoia was terrible. but it was a college town so I would binge drink from time to time but nothing too extensive.

I struggled with concentration and retention issues throughout the last 3 years of college but I think being in that environment help quite a bit in breaking down whatever block was there because I had to focus to finis school. there was quite a bit difference between the haze I was in when I started and when I left it was hardly noticeable.

Maybe it wouldbe more helpfull for you to think that your cognative abilities are not something hidden that can be found again but rather gone for good and need to be rebuilt.

 

[MeDieViL]

Thanks Matt2012, hopefully it will be like you say, things will fall back in to place eventually.
I obsess loads over the damage i've done but thankfully don't get depressed so will wait and see!

I still find myself losing track if i read an article online / read a newspaper etc and have to read the same paragraph more than once and sometimes even forgetting parts of what i was reading!
Also struggle to follow a film, even now after all this time, hitting the rewind button loads of times when the plot of the film changes is no fun! Think these concentration / learning issues along with the facial sweating are the worst symptoms and most frustrating. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!

It's really scary that ecstasy can give you such a cognitive kick in the balls!

I haven't touched weed for 2 1/2 years, i'm always tempted to light up again but think it will slow recovery and is not worth it? (loved weed so much but the anxiety and paranoia was too much so quit)

Did you drink alcohol / smoke weed in those 4 years? Sometimes i think drinking fairly heavily once a week isn't helping ( 5 - 6 pints on a friday / saturday night)

Have you tried nootropics(piracetam, oxiracetam, ashwaghanda, alcar etc)?

 

[tek75]

Nope, not yet anyway. Bit worried about the side effects. I think if i'm still like this in a couple of years i'll consider it permanent so will be willing to try then!

 

[Worrgames]

Nope, not yet anyway. Bit worried about the side effects. I think if i'm still like this in a couple of years i'll consider it permanent so will be willing to try then!

I've heard great things about Piracetam; and it normally has no side effects. Also, in the scenarios in which side effects have occurred, often too high a dose was taken for that specific person.

I actually plan on giving it a try myself.

 

[MeDieViL]

A few weeks ago i had taken a huge overdose of 1 gram 4FMP + 500mg MDAI + 500mg mephedrone + 1 liter of wine (yeah i know stupid as hell).

I couldnt function at all anymore the days after, my brain felt dizzy as hell, i was horribly depressed and i couldnt even sit behind my pc, only sleep or try to get myself to watch TV. I just felt like total crap.

Untill i started taking piracetam again, i noticed an immediate improvement (still felt bad but suddenly could function again) and after a week i was fully back normal.

The piracetam definatly helped to make my brainr recover, i definatly recommend it.

 

[tek75]

Matt2012, the only way i managed to stop taking drugs was to stop going out with 'the boys' and distant myself from old friends.
That was pretty tough to maintain, willpower is definately there when sober but after a few drinks the old psychological addiction kicks in and the cravings start. Basically can't go to the same ol' places with the same ol' people anymore!

I think sometimes maybe it was just the weed / Mary Jane that contributed to my issues as much as the ecstasy, weed has definately taken me into some pretty dark places mentally.

I'm sort of glad i didn't abuse mephedrone and similar legal highs weekly for a few years instead, i worry what sort of long term damage that will have on people being a newer research chemical.

I'll keep an open mind about Piracetam, thanks for the info on that.

 

[Worrgames]

I ordered Piracetam today along with Choline (through a lot of reading and people's experiences, it seems to work well together).

Should probably be here in about a week. I will be sure to report on it!

 

[bben]

Provigil is pretty good for mdma recovery. Among many other things it enhances cortical serotonergic neurotransmission and increases glutamate levels. Both of which are compromised in mdma users to a degree.

Pretty good stuff IMO and it has almost no side effects for some people.


Another good one is inisitol, which helps rebuilt cell membranes and modulates alot of serotonin functions.

The product Himilaya Mentat is also good for regrowing cell dendrites and axons. It has some clinical studies behind it backing that up.

^^ these 3 things could help alot IMO.

 

[AMTDan]

While I constantly preach the horrific dangers of ecstasy abuse and how it has the potential to ruin lives as I have witness personally( anyone who has looked at my posts can see how adamant I am about to doing mdma responsibly, in fact someone I feel like a broken record and have to take a break). I do absolutely believe with enough time even the worst, most fucked up e-abuser can recover nearly completly( mind you the amount of time required for serious abuse can be a very very long time).

While the brain is slower to heal than other parts of the body as it is quite sensitive it absolutely will with time. Brain cells DO regenerate over time. The reason I am so against abusing it is this is not a quick process at all, and can cause serious distress, and someone suffering from serious depression or social issues can make decisions that permantly effect their life and suffer consequences that you will still be paying for even after your brain recovers.

But I always believe if you've gone too far its never too late to quit and make a recovery. If abused to much you might have to quite for many many years even, or maybe give it up comepletely but you WILL feel human again. Every single person I've seen personally or heard stories from here on bluelight( you can see posts from people who abused heavily and then stopped for many years or quit comepletely) they have recovered substantially if not totally.

There is always hope, the brain is more durable than people give it credit for.It just needs more time off than other parts of your body do as it is by far your most complicated and sensitive organ. No one should ever assume they are doomed forever, just stop taking it and prepare to not feel right for a while, they say time heals all( which isn't a 100% accurate statement but sort of applies in this case.

Obviously the best method it to never abuse it to begin with, It takes a while to return to normal and its prefferable to not have to be mentally off for months or years while you recover but your brain is a amazing organ and will begin reversing your damage( albeit while cursing you) .

Never lose hope slowly the dark will turn to light. I've never heard a story about someone who after enough time hasn't made some serious stops in recovering