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ecstacy manufacturing variations

M

mister

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Jul 8, 2005
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could someone please help solve this. I started talking pills around 1990 untill around 1998, i then had a break of about 2 years. Most pills ive taken since 2000 seem different. All through the early 90's most every pill felt the same then it seemed over night pills changed and im not talking about "losing the love" more the whole high changed. Ive had MDMA crystal 3 times, once in 1994 and again in 1999/2001 and this felt like the earlier pills, ive had 3 pills between 2000 and present that felt the same as the earlier ones. Is it possible to manufacture MDMA and it not be as potent or effect you differently to another batch?. Similar to when you compare a great scotch to a cheap one, there both scotch but both have different effects. Some people ive asked say that the pills today contain less MDMA but I dont agree as a lot of pills today test 100-160mg of MDMA. Im fairly sure ive read a thread on here that talkes about how MDMA is manufactured differently today but I cant find it. Any help would be appriciated
 
Pill strengths really have declined during the 90s. (story) It's possible that they've become more potent again, but I haven't seen any real evidence of it.

Is it possible to manufacture MDMA and it not be as potent or effect you differently to another batch?.
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MDMA is MDMA. Alter it's structure and it's no longer MDMA. Different experiences with different pills are usually due to different levels of MDMA and/or the presence of 'cuts'...drugs substituted for MDMA such as amphetamine. Your health and mindset going in is also an issue; YOU vary, even if the pills don't.

but I dont agree as a lot of pills today test 100-160mg of MDMA.
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Granted, 100 mg are out there. Unless I've just been missing the news, pills in the 160 range are rarer than pregnant nuns.
 
I haave definately had different "x" pills affect me in different ways. It is a complicated mix of factors that determine what you will feel.

Purity of ingredients
Choice of Cuts
Hardness of Pill
Amount of Ingredients
Ratio of "X" to active cuts

For example an IR pill might feel different than an XR pill. Both carry the same active ingredient but dofferent global effects.
 
Also, some pills are gonna have to have weird synthesis byproducts which might hit up all kinds of receptors... don't you think? I mean you're average eastern european MDMA lab isn't going to pass that shit though chromotography, are they.
 
^^ That at least we can definitively answer: All MDMA syntheses produce an equal mix of the R and S isomers.

The reason is simple: The starting chemicals are not chiral; they have no bias one way or the other as to whether they get reduced (or hydrogenated) on one side of the amine vs. the other. So, it's just like flipping a perfectly balanced coin billions of times: in the end, you wind up with a very even mix of heads and tails.

It's possible for the isomers to be separated after being made, but there's no reason for 'cooks' to go to the considerable trouble. I have heard of one case where a fellow separated the isomers for his own experimentation (he particularly liked a 70:30 S:R mix), but there is no evidence that I'm aware of that such material has ever reached the black market.
 
You could start with L-DOPA or D-DOPA & go through the hassle of adding the methylene bridge and reducing the carboxyl group then N-methylating to get a purely chiral product, but I doubt your average MDMA cook is going to bother with something like that.

The best bet would be to make racaemic MDA, separate the isomers and only methylate the S isomer to give two final products R-MDA & S-MDMA, thereby getting the most active isomer of both drugs (always thinking economy!)
 
Nichols holds a patent on the stereospecific synthesis of MDMA. The MD-phenylacetone is reductively aminated with either (R)- or (S)-N-methyl-1-phenethylamine and debenzylated in one step (Pd/C, H2).
 
could a by-product of manufacture say 75mg mixed with 75mg MDMA still test 150mg MDMA
 
That would depend on the test you were using. Some by-products would trigger the EZ-Test type tests, but the heavy lab analytical equipment wouldn't be fooled.
 
One thing I thought of lately, what about reducing methylone, to 3,4-methylenedioxyephedrine?

Wouldn't that, on RP/HI reduction, reduce to the two D-chiral isomers of MDMA? I might be way off though, stereochemistry isn't something I am uber-competent on.
 
But I'm sure you could find some lab that tries to use quantatative ELISA or something like that... and that could be fooled... but I'm sure most would use GS/MS or HPLC or something like that, which can tell MDMA from not-MDMA
 
From what I understand hydroiotic acid is perhaps the strongest acid that there is bar none. The MD bridge would not survive that sort of treatment.
 
Hmm, you are most likely right, didn't think of that, although HI isn't the strongest acid, chemically speaking, I believe perchloric acid is the strongest "common" mineral acid, and the strongest superacid, isn't that now one of the carborane acids?
 
I've lost all faith in X...im sure there is some decent E out there although i havent encountered it in several years...i'll stick to opiates.
 
One thing I thought of lately, what about reducing methylone, to 3,4-methylenedioxyephedrine
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Can't remember the name, but there's a way of reducing ketones to alkanes using hydrazine (the word 'wolf' appears somewhere I think). Beyond that, I'll shut up as it's on the verge of synth discussion
 
After having tried pure S-MDMA before I still theorize that it's possible that the manufacturers separate isomers for the purposes of giving different pill logos distinctly different effects. S-MDMA in comparison to most of the E pills I've had over the years, I would definitely describe as the ultimate in 'dopey'. Nobody has ever done analysis on E pills to detect what the ratio of S/R isomers are. We know manufacture of MDMA in theory always produces racemic MDMA, but there's never been a study done on if the final product (pressed pills) is racemic or if it can contain different ratios.
 
I enjoyed the S-MDMA as well. I wouldn't call it "smacky" but it was definitely a "smoother' experience, and much shorter-acting. Few after effects. Also noted less sensory enhancement, but not to the degree of loss I experience with methylone and even MDE.
 
this is very educational and interesting....thanks....please keep posting
 
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