EADD Theology Megathread

[Raasyvibe]

^ Atheist process of thought. Do you get my point now, ricko? I've even exemplified it now for you (Thanks Toucan)

 

[Toucan]

you got me
then tell me why perhaps, we shouldn't?


edit: I don't believe increasing sexualisation of our society is making people suffer. If anything the opposite.

 

[Raasyvibe]

^ at the age of 21 I met the love of my life. She had a slight problem with her physical development, and had a slightly strange looking face. As a teenager she tried to commit suicide, twice, because of the guys at school pursuing those 'animalistic' desires, and rejecting her in favour of prettier friends.

Of course to me, objectification wasn't an issue as I loved her for her intelligence, compassion and great, similar personality.

I learnt that human love can defy our animal instincts, and that all people should recognise this and not feel down for whatever genetics they are handed. To give respect to all humans, no matter what shape, form, colour etc and dissociate from sexual desires which discriminate person to person. Perhaps it takes religious belief to follow through this ideal.

I hope you can understand why I pursue a spiritual attitude towards human beings, rather than an animalistic one... coz im not an animal, but a spiritual person, loving person (if that make sense)

 

[Toucan]

why can't human love be one of those instincts? even if this seems conflicting?
of course it doesn't take religion to follow your ideals. Christians are so proud of this love that they think only they know, and are never satisfied - it has to be something more

Edit: as for your girlfriend's past problems perhaps it's feminism, not god, that society needs.

 

[rickolasnice]

I learnt that human love can defy our animal instincts, and that all people should recognise this and not feel down for whatever genetics they are handed. To give respect to all humans, no matter what shape, form, colour etc and dissociate from sexual desires which discriminate person to person. Perhaps it takes religious belief to follow through this ideal.

Yeah.. i know this.. and I've never been religious. If you needed to learn this from an ancient fable then i think that says something about your moral values rather than any atheists.

I'll get back to the rest of your post when i get home later this evening. (Although i noticed that you have again cherry picked my original posts apart.. answering only a select few points)

 

[rickolasnice]

If you have not seen or experienced anything supernatural, it is only natural to be suspicious of those who claim they have and take a more empirical stance on the subject. I've been there too.

Nobody has experienced anything supernatural. I experienced "supernatural" things when i was a kid.. 99.99% of things people assume to be a supernatural experience is actually a very natural, normal and explainable experience..

The mistake I have made, and that you and Derren Brown are currently making, is that when it comes to God, spirituality, faith, psychics, supernatural you are looking at it from a scientific point of view. Doing so you will inevitably hit a wall, find no evidence and no claims you cannot dismiss.

Nope. Haven't hit a wall.. Just pointing out that experiences of God and the like are easily explainable to be anything and everything other than "God". Your statement makes no sense, really. Are you really saying that ALL successful psychics don't use the techniques that Derren points out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZfzNQU6Tp0

Because trust me.. they do..

http://www.randi.org/site/

There is no psychic, spoon bender, horoscope writer or messages from god that cannot be explained rationally and logically to be some form of mental trickery.

From a materialistic point of view, these things are unprovable. To progress your understanding you really have to think outside of the material box that you are in.

Aye.. ok.. but we can prove that peoples experiences of these things are not what they seem to be.

So you have found no evidence of souls, no evidence of God or anything supernatural? Don't let your search end here. Instead, let's employ a little philosophy:

Maybe there is a God, but he has deliberately made atheism a real possibility for you to believe in. Because you and derrin brown haven't experienced or found any evidence of the supernatural, doesn't mean it's not there, it could be that God doesn't want you to know of it. He's made atheism appear possible on purpose and wants you to explore it, if you wish.

lol.. God.. the ultimate troll

Yes, yes there are. With 7 billion people on earth, billions of planets, our animalistic evolutionary background... People think there may not be a God. This in turn exposes sin. Simply, if someones being naughty they generally feel if their bad deeds are away from the police they've got away with it.

This now gives them (God, angels), who operate on our world... many choices. It allows them to deal with the sin - they can fate events so that the person can learn the consequence of their sin, and develop from it. Or, if the person is evil in the heart and will not learn, their sin can be used to create heroic and noble human experiencs... for instance a police officer could be fated to deal with the person and save an afflicted person. A relationship is born as the policeman helps an afflicted person; love and trust are developed. (Just an example, im sure you can think of many more)

lol.. keep doing those mental gymnastics raas..

This is also a very big point you've hit upon.

The religion/atheist debate is not just fun and games. It's extremely important and can effect you tremendously.

Religion doesn't make you a more moral person, I agree. It's possible to uphold morals without religion I agree.

What religious belief does, is effect our perception on how life is to be lived and creates a division between our animalalstic desires and spiritual desires.

Does it? I don't tink so. What do you consider an animalistic desire, Mr enlightened one? Seeing as you have made that division.. why are you always perving on the female members? Why do you drink so heavily and so often?

OK so... let's apply this to real life:

I was at a house party once. Just me, a load of girls and drink and drugs. Speed at the time we were taking. You know how it goes, chats, laughs, then deep meaningful conversations about life.

As they opened up they start to talk honestly "I hate the way I look" says one, "I too - says another" and they get quite emotional. You can see that behind the laughs they are going through real emotional depression and downers; having real esteem issues even suicidal tendencies. They also develop hate and jealousy towards the one who gets attention from the guys. All this is really, really common.

Why though? It's because of us guys and our animalistic desires! Our FHM mags with "100 fittest girls" on the front cover. The sex and relationships, we have, because of the unfair physical nature - are creating all this suffering.

Yeah but God created this suffering so we can learn, remember? Maybe you've got it wrong. It's not to rid us of animalistic desires.. it's to produce the chance for them "unwanted" girls to feel extra good when they find someone who wants them. Maybe it is because the girls that are unwanted are actually horrible people and only god knows this. Maybe it's because the devil is winning the war? Or did an angel come to you in your sleep to explain that it is actually to separate people from their natural animalistic desires?

This is just an evolutionary trait of sexual AND natural selection and societal pressure due to capitalism.

Then the girls do it to us... They'll go for some rich, good looking arsehole... and create all kinds of esteem issues to men also, who are not perfect.

Girls going for rich men is because rich men will be able to provide for them and any offspring. It's another evolutionary survival tactic. Animals in the wild will (mostly) either go for the most pretty looking fe/male (as seen in a lot of birds) or the strongest (most powerful) fe/male. In the human world, money = power.

The ego is very sensitive, and when hurt people can also do really regrettable, awful things. The frustration created from the unfair desire can bring out the very worst in a person.

Thank you dear God, for putting me on this earth, i feel very privileged, in debt for my thirst. (10 internet points for whoever can name that song)

BUT with religion we can eradicate this entirely, they are not objects, the body they were given was created by God and is unfair to judge them on it. God has made love in a fair and just way so we can steer away from these animalistic desires which are, in truth, murderous - as attested by a close friend of mine - who tried killing herself as a teenager - after all the boys rejected her for the sake of her prettier friends.

If it can be eradicated entirely it will be from cultural / societal change. The end of capitalism and consumerism would be a good start. But as we have already established. Religion is nothing but a tool. People will use it how they wish to use it. It's not going to make anyone see the way you think we should see if they don't want to.

With religion we stay away from these desires, we understand that there is a correct and intended way to live life, so we stay away from these animalistic desires, and reserve it for marriage with the right person and a spiritual soul-mate.

lol.. putting words in bold doesn't make them any less wrong.

This is what happens without faith:

We become more susceptible to evil influences: we lack reason to stay away from sex, drugs, materialism etc and these addictions kill our spirituality; the repercussions can be life-ruining.

Ummm.. no.. no it isn't.

And anyway - How can you destroy something that's not real?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

There appears to be a direct relationship in that map between Catholicism and opiates.

 

[Raasyvibe]

Mehh.... you're still not grasping my point here, ricko, boy. Maybe it's more that you "don't want" to grasp it. I'l get back to you anyway.

(Although i noticed that you have again cherry picked my original posts apart.. answering only a select few points)

Yes I did cherry pick my arse out over that one. But there is so much to respond too, the posts just bore everyone in a TL;DR way if everythings written to in detail.... also i'm actually very busy at the mo, to respond to everything in detail really takes a lot of time and thought.... that's a lot of time to spend on someone who will not accept anything pro-religious regardless. So sometimes it's better to pick out the relevant bits. I think it's more productive to go over the basics before addressing more specific aspects, like details on Bilical authenticity.

 

[rickolasnice]

I'm actually more interested in your views on the infancy gospels of Thomas and the Arabic gospels of infancy..

And to be honest raas your posts don't need to be as long as they are.. you don't need 3 or 4 paragraphs to explain your unfounded belief in a possible possibility that may or may not be (isn't) the case.

 

[knock]

^ at the age of 21 I met the love of my life. She had a slight problem with her physical development, and had a slightly strange looking face. As a teenager she tried to commit suicide, twice, because of the guys at school pursuing those 'animalistic' desires, and rejecting her in favour of prettier friends.

Of course to me, objectification wasn't an issue as I loved her for her intelligence, compassion and great, similar personality.

I learnt that human love can defy our animal instincts, and that all people should recognise this and not feel down for whatever genetics they are handed. To give respect to all humans, no matter what shape, form, colour etc and dissociate from sexual desires which discriminate person to person. Perhaps it takes religious belief to follow through this ideal.

I hope you can understand why I pursue a spiritual attitude towards human beings, rather than an animalistic one... coz im not an animal, but a spiritual person, loving person (if that make sense)

Human love is an animal instinct. A human animal instinct. Just because your own case of that instinct doesn't live down to your dim view of it in other people, doesn't make it supernatural.

You are an animal, whether you like it or not. You might take that as an insult, it's not meant as one, and I don't think there is anything insulting about it. We're fairly unusual amongst animals for various reasons but we're still animals.

 

[Raasyvibe]

why can't human love be one of those instincts? even if this seems conflicting?
of course it doesn't take religion to follow your ideals. Christians are so proud of this love that they think only they know, and are never satisfied - it has to be something more

Edit: as for your girlfriend's past problems perhaps it's feminism, not god, that society needs.

I think Promiscuity is a cold game, where a cold person is often a winner. Often we attribute the physical body to the person, which is intellectually deficient perspective to take and often causes many esteem issues amongst people.

For me at least, it took religion to give me the confidence to dissociate from it completely and believe love could exist in a correct, moral and decent way. todays times people think promiscuity is very important, an example from the guy with the most anti-religious avatar (Second only to rickolasnice)

you are deluding yourself if you think there is nothing wrong about being a 20something virgin in this era

The key word for me is "desirability", something we all pursue... Yes I think it takes a belief in something to flip the tables, and make what was previously undesirable/looked down upon, desirable.

Yeah.. i know this.. and I've never been religious. If you needed to learn this from an ancient fable then i think that says something about your moral values rather than any atheists

The fables may be ancient, but they are truths that outlast time, as they are; truths. But as I said before, we can all recognise what is right and wrong... but without religion there is no correct and intended way to live life... so you're 10 times likely to again, follow the animalistic desires rather than find confidence to pursue the spiritual ones.

Human love is an animal instinct. A human animal instinct. Just because your own case of that instinct doesn't live down to your dim view of it in other people, doesn't make it supernatural.

You are an animal, whether you like it or not. You might take that as an insult, it's not meant as one, and I don't think there is anything insulting about it. We're fairly unusual amongst animals for various reasons but we're still animals.

"Love" is too much of a generic term to classify as animalistic or spiritual.

Ricko explains an animalistic case very well:

"Girls going for rich men is because rich men will be able to provide for them and any offspring. It's another evolutionary survival tactic. Animals in the wild will (mostly) either go for the most pretty looking fe/male (as seen in a lot of birds) or the strongest (most powerful) fe/male. In the human world, money = power"

However, it is cases where the love defies evolutionary norms that i would classify as "spiritual" - where the foundations of the "love" have no evolutionary basis. For me, this is what distinguishes the soul from the flesh.

You could refer to these cases between people as "soul mates"... Think the latest buzzword is "Twin Flames", and here we can begin to understand a further spirituality which totally outgrows our less-than-considerate animalistic desires.

 

[Raasyvibe]

Post for Rickolasnice:

I'm actually more interested in your views on the infancy gospels of Thomas and the Arabic gospels of infancy..

And to be honest raas your posts don't need to be as long as they are.. you don't need 3 or 4 paragraphs to explain your unfounded belief in a possible possibility that may or may not be (isn't) the case.

Not read 'em. The bible is long enough read without going through the texts that didn't make it in.

Nobody has experienced anything supernatural. I experienced "supernatural" things when i was a kid.. 99.99% of things people assume to be a supernatural experience is actually a very natural, normal and explainable experience..

That's your opinion and current understanding. Shouldn't be stated like it's fact; humans are prone to error. There is not always a normal natural explanation. Some claimed visions from notable people can not be explained, other than to suggest they're liars or going insane. There's an explanation for anything and everything if you want it bad enough.

Nope. Haven't hit a wall.. Just pointing out that experiences of God and the like are easily explainable to be anything and everything other than "God". Your statement makes no sense, really. Are you really saying that ALL successful psychics don't use the techniques that Derren points out?

Again. Problem with Derren is that he's never going to prove anything supernatural, if he did he'd be changing Gods will, which aint happenin'. But Derren has not debunked all pyshcics. I've had some involvement with "spiritual" churches (I oppose them BTW) and i would say they certainly do channel information from outside this world. Certainly.

There is no psychic, spoon bender, horoscope writer or messages from god that cannot be explained rationally and logically to be some form of mental trickery.

Of course you're right. As i said it is not in Gods will to prove these things... doesn't mean they don't happen Don't know about spoon bending, however I've experienced being psychic myself many times, and mediumship. So i can say factually that they exist. You of course, you'll forever be finding a "rational" explanantion...

lol.. God.. the ultimate troll

Yes, but if u open ur mind u will see there is sense to it. Fooling us with atheism really does become a way to tackle sin, create curses etc

Does it? I don't tink so. What do you consider an animalistic desire, Mr enlightened one? Seeing as you have made that division.. why are you always perving on the female members? Why do you drink so heavily and so often?

I do not perv at female members on this forum. I reposted 2 pictures for giggle once. Being a creepy pervert storing all the pictures is usually how people I've been fueding with recently like to twist the story around.

Here, you must now click on this nude image from the gallery for even bringing that up:

NSFW:

As for the Gin and Juice.

I'm way too cursed to be strict with the values atm lol. And remember i have a non-christian background behind me so it's quite normal for me to get mashed here and there.

Yeah but God created this suffering so we can learn, remember? Maybe you've got it wrong. It's not to rid us of animalistic desires.. it's to produce the chance for them "unwanted" girls to feel extra good when they find someone who wants them. Maybe it is because the girls that are unwanted are actually horrible people and only god knows this. Maybe it's because the devil is winning the war? Or did an angel come to you in your sleep to explain that it is actually to separate people from their natural animalistic desires?

Poor response. You're incapable of accepting any of the philosophy behind a spiritual life, so you're just jesting about it instead. lame.

Girls going for rich men is because rich men will be able to provide for them and any offspring. It's another evolutionary survival tactic. Animals in the wild will (mostly) either go for the most pretty looking fe/male (as seen in a lot of birds) or the strongest (most powerful) fe/male. In the human world, money = power.

Indeed. So we start to discriminate against people who have not had opportunity in their lives. This is the cold truth of evolutional traits... and why religion is important, as it gives us confidence to act in a more compassionate way.

And anyway - How can you destroy something that's not real?

It's real. it's just you haven't found it/don't understand it. Sometimes you have to face your evolutionary side to let it emerge

 

[rickolasnice]

http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

and

http://www.gnosis.org/library/infarab.htm

Knock yourself out.

Truths, huh? Riiight. If you consider these texts to be truths then Jesus is guilty of unprovoked murder.. no wonder the church didn't include them in the bible Didn't quite fit their many agendas.

And remember how none of the scriptures were written till about 100 years after Jesus' death? And how anecdotal evidence is the least reliable form of evidence (to the point it can't be considered evidence, anymore).. Ever play a 100 year game of chinese whispers ending with people with an agenda?

I can't remember which is which but (is it Luke?) obviously tried to make the religion user friendly incorporating many aspects of surrounding religions into the NT (such as the virgin birth, etc.) and (Is it Matthew?) had obviously tried to incorporate the prophecy of the OT into the NT.. hence the many contradictions and historical errors. The census that (i think) Matthew talks about is greatly scewed.. It didn't happen when he said it did, it was only a local one, not an empire wide one AND there would have been 1000 years between Joseph and David.. both making it a fckin stupid notion he would have had to have gone back to David's home land.. but surprise surprise these errors make a (shitty) excuse as to why Jesus was born there.. Both of these seem to think Herrod was alive but again.. when that local census happened Herrod was dead. Where is the truth in these stories? I'm itching to know.

And then there's John

When they heard these words, some of the people said, "This really is the Prophet." Others said, "This is the Christ." But some said, "Is the Christ to come from Galilee? Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the offspring of David, and comes from Bethlehem, the village where David was?"

 

[Cornishman]

the mistake i have made, and that you and derren brown are currently making, is that when it comes to god, spirituality, faith, psychics, supernatural you are looking at it from a scientific point of view. Doing so you will inevitably hit a wall, find no evidence and no claims you cannot dismiss.

lol!

 

[knock]

I think it's impossible to argue with raas because he doesn't actually make a case :D

 

[The Liberal Media]

Modern circles? You mean some kind of rinky-dink fundamentalist school set up to fleece whitey? Let's stick to real Hinduism, shall we?

Nope I mean real scholars like Mark Dyczkowski or Harish Johari or Dr Robert Svoboda

Not some " rinky dink" guys as you refer to
try reading those guys , will show your knowledge of Hinduism up to be the WUM that you seem to be

 

[Sammy G]

Nope I mean real scholars like Mark Dyczkowski

Good solid Indian name that, isn't it?

I rest my case.

try reading those guys , will show your knowledge of Hinduism up to be the WUM that you seem to be

I'm really not all that bothered about Hinduism. What I am bothered about is totally false statments on the tenets of Hinduism, like yours above.

Haven't you got some meditation to be getting along with?

 

[The Liberal Media]

Good Indian name, isn't it?

I rest my case.

Most of the real knowledge from india has been hidden for various reasons

Google "Dhirendra Brahmachari" or "Maharshi Kartikeya " for proof

Most of this modern teaching is bullshit apart from the old school guys like Nisargadatta Maharaj or Ramana

 

[Sammy G]

Most of the real knowledge from india has been hidden for various reasons

Hidden from the entire Hindu population of India and every Hindu disapora, to be revealed to the white man (for the right price) millennia later?

Yeah, right. Join the bleedin' Beatles while you're at it.

If it comforts you to believe this, then go ahead. You've already provided my (genuine) Hindu colleague and I with enough giggles to make our cigarette break, so thanks.

 

[The Liberal Media]

Hidden from the entire Hindu population of India and every Hindu disapora, to be revealed to the white man (for the right price) millennia later?

Yeah, right. Join the bleedin' Beatles while you're at it.

If it comforts you to believe this, then go ahead. You've already provided my (genuine) Hindu colleague and I with enough giggles to make our cigarette break, so thanks.

Last I checked the real Gurus and writers charge nothing for their writings so quite where you get this "to the white man" bullshit from is anyones guess

look up " Reinhard Gammenthaler" on youtube and you will see he makes all his stuff free in public domain