F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Yep, see my edit above.
Disclaimer: this only represents the opinion of a fucked up retard. Other opinions are available...
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EADD-Heroin-Discussion-v-XXIII-New shit - same old problems
- Thread starter steewith2ees
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Yep, see my edit above.
Disclaimer: this only represents the opinion of a fucked up retard. Other opinions are available...
Buspersons Holiday
Bluelighter
Sweetheart, not using needles does not mean you're safe by any stretch of the imagination...safer, but not safe, depending on if you mean safe from death or safe from addiction?
Asking which out of a smack or benzo habit is worse is highly subjective. Do you mean to maintain or withdraw from? A benzo habit is worse in that it is physically a lot more dangerous to withdraw from than heroin, but having only had experience of previous smack habits and through some miracle so far, no benzo habit, my impression that heroin is psychologically more difficult to withdraw from may well be flawed.
Either way, why not try & follow the advice of your 'star' of a drugs worker tomorrow if you've been honest about your use and see how it goes? Wishing you luck
ordinary mind
Bluelighter
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- Aug 28, 2015
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For me, heroin is of an obsessive type of addiction that keeps you focused on getting and staying high, but a heavy benzo habit can throw your mind into absolute turmoil when you try to stop. If fightingthetoot was looking to get clean, I'd actually say kick the heroin first then reduce the benzo dosage at your own pace - if you're using heroin while tapering the benzos you'd probably end up compensating with more heroin, and the sooner you aren't combining the two the better really.
However, I don't get the impression that you're planning on a change of lifestyle yet, so I'll just say please stop taking such unnecessarily massive doses of diazepam. You can't be getting much more enjoyment from a bigger dose after a certain point, yet it will still push your tolerance up to a stupidly high level and make things harder for you in the future.
Seriously dude if you're happy with your lifestyle then I wish you all the best, but for the sake of harm reduction I gotta point out you'd be a lot safer and probably happier too if you'd just calm down with the massive doses of valium.
However, I don't get the impression that you're planning on a change of lifestyle yet, so I'll just say please stop taking such unnecessarily massive doses of diazepam. You can't be getting much more enjoyment from a bigger dose after a certain point, yet it will still push your tolerance up to a stupidly high level and make things harder for you in the future.
Seriously dude if you're happy with your lifestyle then I wish you all the best, but for the sake of harm reduction I gotta point out you'd be a lot safer and probably happier too if you'd just calm down with the massive doses of valium.
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matt<3ketamine
Bluelighter
ive had 8 overdoses in my life, the first 2 the paramedics thought i was dead, this was due to benzos and heroin, the naloxone didnt treat the benzos so i was still out of it even when they brought me back around, very luckily i was with my ex and he performed cpr for 10 minutes straight until the medics arrived.
i ask mr fightingthetoot is this what you want to happen to you and your loved ones? its not a dig at you, its a serious question.
for a long time it took me to get my head straight but it did happen, it wasnt impossible, now if i get any benzos i treat them as a lucky treat and remember what they have done. i got gave a free bag of brown from an old dealer a few months ago, i tried handing it back but he wuldnt take it, its currently floating in the sewer systems of northern ireland. i think it was an attempt to fuck me over and get me back to the dark side and on his leash, fuck that!
you asked about methadone, well why not try sticking to subutex or suboxone? means even if you do use, it will do next to fuck all. im on 20mg and without it i would probably be back to where i was a few years ago and in a very bad way
as weird as it sounds i do very few drugs these days, ive had a small bit of weed sitting in my drawer for 2 months, am i becoming...a SQUARE?!? or just wising up to the abuse i put my body through when i was younger?
i ask mr fightingthetoot is this what you want to happen to you and your loved ones? its not a dig at you, its a serious question.
for a long time it took me to get my head straight but it did happen, it wasnt impossible, now if i get any benzos i treat them as a lucky treat and remember what they have done. i got gave a free bag of brown from an old dealer a few months ago, i tried handing it back but he wuldnt take it, its currently floating in the sewer systems of northern ireland. i think it was an attempt to fuck me over and get me back to the dark side and on his leash, fuck that!
you asked about methadone, well why not try sticking to subutex or suboxone? means even if you do use, it will do next to fuck all. im on 20mg and without it i would probably be back to where i was a few years ago and in a very bad way
as weird as it sounds i do very few drugs these days, ive had a small bit of weed sitting in my drawer for 2 months, am i becoming...a SQUARE?!? or just wising up to the abuse i put my body through when i was younger?
consumer
Bluelighter
If you actually read my post i assumed he was probably on about methadone but i was clarifying the meth part in the first sentence.
Quitting benzos first would be a good idea as the withdrawal is far more extreme and dangerous. That said quitting smack first might be easier with the help of benzos before quitting those. I am no expert on heroin but i know a lot about both groups of compounds from being a nurse. One really needs to be managed medically the other can be done by willpower alone. You wont die from H withdrawal no matter how unpleasant it is.
But there are others here with more knowledge than i on this subject. Currently the dude is in all sorts of trouble whether he can see it or not. Ending up in a coma...well if thats not an indication i dont know what is.
I read your post, that's why I said either,I was agreeing with what you said. I don't think he's on about meth amphetamine EITHER.
If he's scripted benzos I think it would be better to quit heroin first as the benzos will really help the withdrawals. That's what I did anyway.
The guy doesn't seem ready to be totally drug free, it sounds good saying quit this quit that but you got to be realistic. Ic took correctly there no reason not to continue with benzos and reduce the dosage over a long period.
If he's scripted benzos I think it would be better to quit heroin first as the benzos will really help the withdrawals. That's what I did anyway.
The guy doesn't seem ready to be totally drug free, it sounds good saying quit this quit that but you got to be realistic. Ic took correctly there no reason not to continue with benzos and reduce the dosage over a long period.
consumer
Bluelighter
Yes i agree. Getting off the opiates makes sense with the help of benzos then tackle the monkey. I misread your post. I apologise.
consumer
Bluelighter
Tackle the benzos not the monkey. I need a sleep i think. Not making sense.
i am from the SW but am hearing our man is having trouble in Liverpool????
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Maintaining and managing a benzo addiction is actually very difficult when you are relying on black market supplies. The fact of the matter is that it's much easier to get support to manage a heroin addiction than a benzo addiction. This is why I say to tackle the benzos first. Because withdrawal from benzos is potentially dangerous, the sooner it's nipped in the bud the better. Taking Smack & benzos is like playing Russian roulette with two rounds in the chamber. Removing one halves the chance of blowing your brains out. The ultimate goal is to remove both, but benzos are the wildcard in that combo. He's not using needles so the chance of any serious issues from the heroin alone is very low. Sure, he might compensate for lack of benzos by taking more heroin, but similarly, he would probably compensate for lack of heroin by taking more benzos - this is a more problematic scenario IMO as the benzo addiction would get much worse.
Tackle the benzo issue first then stabilise the opiate use with a prescribed subutex or methadone reduction program. It could take years. But will be relatively pain free and ultimately worth it.
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Depends on his supliers, he already said he strugled dometimes to score heroin and has to deal with shady heroin adicts.
What your saying is the sooner he isn't taking both heroin and benzos together (which is obviously dangerous) the safer it is.
Then you say to quit benzos first which can be a long process of reduction over weeks possibly months to do safely. Where as heroun can be quit straight off. Technically someone with a big habit could quit and be clean of heroin in a week, can't do that with benzos.
Don't forget he's also using subs on top of all the heroin and benzos.
From my personal experience its a simple choice, quit the gear and use the subs and benzos to stabalizer, use the time to start making life changes like breaking the cycle of heroin use and distance yourself from other heroin users. Then when you feel ready start reducing subs and benzos.
Also Im not sure but I think he's prescribed benzos so will be under the care of a gp or clinic instead of a random heroin dealer.
What your saying is the sooner he isn't taking both heroin and benzos together (which is obviously dangerous) the safer it is.
Then you say to quit benzos first which can be a long process of reduction over weeks possibly months to do safely. Where as heroun can be quit straight off. Technically someone with a big habit could quit and be clean of heroin in a week, can't do that with benzos.
Don't forget he's also using subs on top of all the heroin and benzos.
From my personal experience its a simple choice, quit the gear and use the subs and benzos to stabalizer, use the time to start making life changes like breaking the cycle of heroin use and distance yourself from other heroin users. Then when you feel ready start reducing subs and benzos.
Also Im not sure but I think he's prescribed benzos so will be under the care of a gp or clinic instead of a random heroin dealer.
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Horses for courses innit? There are so many factors involved that it's hard to advise - that's what the clinics are for (that's not to say they know everything, as they definitely do not). The rationale behind my thinking is to get off the benzos asap as they are the most problematic. As you said yourself, a large long term heroin addiction can (technically, if not realistically) be dealt with relatively quickly, once all other confounding variables have been eliminated.
With the benzos and subs he's on there's no reason to continue heroin.
If you want to talk about variables then the constantly changing quality/purity of heroin is the main problem. Another reason to quit heroin first.
The rationale behind your thinking is to get off benzos asap? Asap isn't the aproach when it comes to benzos. Takes ages to reduce, not just risk of seizures to worry about, if you quit benzos yourself while on heroin is a disaster waiting to happen. Anxiety levels will be through the roof and heroin use will increase.
If you want to talk about variables then the constantly changing quality/purity of heroin is the main problem. Another reason to quit heroin first.
The rationale behind your thinking is to get off benzos asap? Asap isn't the aproach when it comes to benzos. Takes ages to reduce, not just risk of seizures to worry about, if you quit benzos yourself while on heroin is a disaster waiting to happen. Anxiety levels will be through the roof and heroin use will increase.
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Perhaps I should have said 'opiates/opioids' rather than 'heroin'. You are much more likely to get a good opiate reduction regimen from a drug clinic than one for benzos (forget GPs, they are a waste of space in these matters) Also, when I said 'get off the benzos asap', I actually meant to initiate getting off the benzos asap, while satisfying the psychological cravings with an opiate maintenance program. Either way, it's not going to be easy and he's looking at a long, hard road which is uphill all the way.
Edit: afaic (rightly or wrongly) increasing opiate use to compensate for lack of benzos is much less problematic than increasing benzos use to compensate for lack of opiates - which is what would happen if the opiates were tackled first.
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F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
UK mate. It took me 20 years to get off the gear/methadone with benzos thrown into the mix at various points. I had no problems with the opiates, but shit soon hit the fan when those pesky fuckers got involved...