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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Drugs make You feel like crap eventually, Right?

B

belfort

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
2,291
im going to try and explain this as well as i can..i have taken many different drugs through the years from dexedrine to heroin to ghb and other downers..now i have obviously experienced many great highs in my day, ive had a ton of fun while under influence...i have used drugs to give me energy or help me relax or help me sleep, focus better etc etc but one thing i have noticed is that it seems that all drugs seem to rob me of 'feeling good naturally'...drugs seem to destroy your well-being, the ability to just feel good naturally while sitting around with others or out in nature etc etc..ive noticed that before drugs i coudl enjoy simple things much easier than i do now..now it seems i need a bat broken over my head just to get my endorphins awoken....i need a very hard workout just to feel much of anything..maybe im just getting older but does my post resonate with anyone else?it seems that no matter hoe effective certain drugs are at giving or taking away positives/negatives, they all seem to rip away your bodies natural ability to feel good..this goes for ssris and other anti-depressants i have found..


agree or disagree??
 
I feel you, the worst part of it is never being able to let go of the thought that no matter how good you feel, you will always know it could be so much better if you only had <insert drug of choice> to put you in that perfect spot again. I think it's 7 years now since I injected heroin for the last time but I still dream about it and wake up with terrible cravings from time to time.
 
AGREE.

Physically, habitual use of most recreational substances (and sometimes even single uses, depending upon the potency and mechanism of the compound; methamphetamine) will eventually deplete your brains natural reserves of your "feel good" chemicals ie Dopamine/DA and Serotonin/5-HT or even the brain's calming agent- GABA.

I know for a fact that my 5 years of heavy, high-dosage opioid/IV heroin abuse depleted not only my DA, but I realized how ridiculously sensitive my body and mind is to pain in comparison to before my heavy dependency on heroin. My endogenous "natural" opioids have been down-regulated/depleted, so my brain's natural defense system against agonizing pain is fucked and somewhat drained. Not only my endogenous opioids are depleted, but I'm more than certain my testosterone is low and for a 21-year-old male... my libido is fucked too. I know my endocrine system is currently, if not forever, damaged. Luckily, I'm on MMT; methadone has been shown via clinical studies that chronic use of methadone (ie MMT) allows normalization of release and peripheral levels of one of the classes of endogenous opioids. Actually, beta-endorphin levels normalize in CSF (or "spinal fluid") during chronic MMT or so they appear to reflect the norm.

I bet the NMDA-antagonist properties of methadone play a part in this normalization and healing of the body's endogenous opioid system. Which can also be looked at as the healing of the body's reward systems.
 
Theres no doubt that use of certain drugs (especially chronic use) will deplete natural chemicals, after all the drugs dont create more dopamine or GABA or endorphins, they only unlock more of your natural reserves.
In the longterm I suspect that your brain cant replace these chemicals to a natural level, most likely due to desensitization of the receptors.
This desenstization means that the brain just cant release a normal amount of DA or sert or GABA etc.
So, its less that the cupboards bare but that the locks are well jammed.
On the plus side though ive read some very interesting articles on NMDA antagonists (DXM and ketamine) lowering or even resetting opiate tolerance, so there hope yet.lol
 
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I know exactly what you mean........I remember playing sports from a young age up through my high school years & didn't do any drugs.

I use to feel so awesome with my natural endorphins & such a well being & feeling great after playing & just hanging out with friends, it was just so simple.

Certain drugs to tend to rip apart your soul/well being & it can take a while to get back to who you were before. If certain drugs are abused for years, you may never get back to where you were, its sad but true.
 
even during long amounts of 'clean time' i still never seem to be able to get rid of the anhedonia or 'flatness' that comes from extended drug use..i can no longer just sit and enjoy a football game or enjoy talking to people...the pleasure just is not there and its maddening...oh my sex drive is also very low but im in my 30s..for me to even feel much of anything i have to get a hard workout in or work long hours in the sun..nothing else seems to work..

i mean, even if you take caffeine daily it seems to take away from just feeling good naturally..sure, you get stimulation and artificial energy from the caffeine but it robs you in the end..
 
hangyourhead said:
AGREE.

Physically, habitual use of most recreational substances (and sometimes even single uses, depending upon the potency and mechanism of the compound; methamphetamine) will eventually deplete your brains natural reserves of your "feel good" chemicals ie Dopamine/DA and Serotonin/5-HT or even the brain's calming agent- GABA.

I know for a fact that my 5 years of heavy, high-dosage opioid/IV heroin abuse depleted not only my DA, but I realized how ridiculously sensitive my body and mind is to pain in comparison to before my heavy dependency on heroin. My endogenous "natural" opioids have been down-regulated/depleted, so my brain's natural defense system against agonizing pain is fucked and somewhat drained. Not only my endogenous opioids are depleted, but I'm more than certain my testosterone is low and for a 21-year-old male... my libido is fucked too. I know my endocrine system is currently, if not forever, damaged. Luckily, I'm on MMT; methadone has been shown via clinical studies that chronic use of methadone (ie MMT) allows normalization of release and peripheral levels of one of the classes of endogenous opioids. Actually, beta-endorphin levels normalize in CSF (or "spinal fluid") during chronic MMT or so they appear to reflect the norm.

I bet the NMDA-antagonist properties of methadone play a part in this normalization and healing of the body's endogenous opioid system. Which can also be looked at as the healing of the body's reward systems.
Click to expand...

No drug will deplete your dopamine pathways after one dose, you are regurgitating propaganda lies under the facade of science. Even meth has a honeymoon period where it will take many uses before it stops being pleasurable. To try and pretend methamphetamine can only offer a single pleasurable dose is ludicrous. There are rapidly diminishing returns if you aren't sleeping when redosing but one typically gets about 6 months of very regular use (if they break long enough to sleep regularly) with increasing tolerance before it simply allows you to wake up and nothing more.

Your libido is fucked because you have low testosterone from long-term opioid use and methadone is the most common cause. You have a clear bias against stimulants that I assume you have used in order to rationalize your own use of opioids.
 
this is pretty on-point for me. Even before I started doing any real drugs, I would use cannabis and say the same thing. "I'm not entirely happy if I'm not high" or "This is great, but if I was high it would really be great.." . Those were always the thoughts going through my head. Before you ever mingle with anything, you don't even think about what COULD be. The only advice I can give that might help when you get to this point after a while of use, just know that when you have these feelings, it is just like a fairy tale. You won't REALLY be that much happier with <insert drug>. Especially if your someone like me that has pounded his opiate receptors on a daily basis for years. I just know that even after a couple weeks clean, I could use and feel pretty good, But I still won't get that PERFECT high that I'm chasing. SO at some point, you just sit back and realize that it isn't everything it's cracked up to be.
 
I have done MDMA, meth weed opiates kratom and a bunch of other stuff and I do agree they do rob you of you joy.....But like me having ADHD I found a good pdoc that doesn't prescribe stim's to me because of my bad psychosis. I filled that emptiness inside me with my higher power and I get a lot of pain or a lot of happiness it just depends.
 
yes and from everything ive read stimulants are the worst offenders at causing long-term anhedonia or dysphoria in its users even after sustained abstinence..

the damage is done in my case, i hit the opiates and others way too hard for many years, speedballs etc etc...im not even looking to get high anymore, just to feel like i can enjoy life again..
 
Great thread. Many of the experiences mentioned I can certainly relate to. I have been fighting opiates on and off for 15 years. Longest clean time being 3.5 years. I have used most of the drugs out there (RCs not included), have had other drug addictions but nothing grabbed my nuts like opiates. I noticed that when I begin the cycle of using and getting clean I definately experience more volatility in terms of my emotional state. Higher highs and lower lows. When I'm clean I tend to be more flatlined emotionally. Very difficult to experience any sort of pleasure, all those things that are supposed to give me joy fail to do so. I don't think I will ever go back to the way I was, I am forever altered. It sucks to think about but that's the price I have to pay for playing the game for so long. Sure using has provided me with a great deal of euphoria at times, but when I weigh that against what it's robbed me of its disheartening.
 
Been waiting for a thread like this I've been doing drugs heavily for about 5 years now going on 6. While I don't know if this is considering long to you 10/15 yearers out there. I've watched my life well social life completely diminish practically. My mains drugs are Methamphetamine and opiates, its to the point where I practically spend all my $ from.work on drugs. Its so unreal how far its escalated. It feels like I've been an addict for ages. I do my drugs smar enough to avoid physical withdrawals well with opiates but regardless I do drugs everyday and I need them to be happy. I can't go out and hang out with family etc without thinking about drugs etc. I genuinely am.NOT happy without drugs nowadays & its basically all I know at this point. like.I said only about 5-6 years now since the hard drugs came.into play and worse part is? I started drugs at 16 and I'm 21 now, 2 fucking 1!! And I'm a hardcore drug addict WHO NEEDS drugs to be happy crazy how it only took a fewyears before ttaking my soul. its a love hate relationship I guess
 
groundshog-so whats the reality then, then go through life in a rather flat joyless state?im same way when i get clean i dont turn into one of those people you see on intervention that claim "i havent felt this good ever!"..my emotions flatline and joy is very seldom to be found..i have yet to hear Dr drew or any other expert give good advice on dealing with post drug use anhedonia, besides just the idea 'go to meetings'...
 
Without a shadow of a doubt, yes I agree, there are also various studies that prove that the use of any drug which has effects on a person's neurotransmitters can lead to long term deregulation, as has been seen quite recently in the use of dexamphetamine, D2 transporters were seen to be diminished by up to 40% in comparison to normal. However, that particular study was using very high doses of the drug. Nonetheless, in the end, no matter what drug it is, if you're using it for a long period of time, especially in the developmental years of the brain you're in for a nasty surprise when you stop using. This is most likely the reason as to why I simply cannot stop using opiates anymore, when I stop I crave them so badly I abuse other drugs in the meantime while I wait until I get some more opiates.

However, there is good news! Even for fuck ups like me that have been using since they were 14! In around 1-2 years the receptors will eventually heal to a normal level, and in some cases even heal to beyond a normal level as the brain is tricked into thinking that whatever level of neurotransmitters the drug was producing, you were producing naturally quite literally. People who are 10 years sober of opiates with a long line of history with them for instance feel euphoric at the slightest tingle of any endorphin producing activity such as walking. I know this because I have met many recovering narcotic individuals at several different places (perhaps it's a conspiracy) that say that even the smallest things give them enormous amount of pleasure, and they don't understand why they were using drugs at all for that reason.
 
belfort said:
groundshog-so whats the reality then, then go through life in a rather flat joyless state?im same way when i get clean i dont turn into one of those people you see on intervention that claim "i havent felt this good ever!"..my emotions flatline and joy is very seldom to be found..i have yet to hear Dr drew or any other expert give good advice on dealing with post drug use anhedonia, besides just the idea 'go to meetings'...
Click to expand...

It certainly sounds like a disconcerting prognosis. What about those individuals in meetings whom are "grateful for being an addict or alcoholic". I cannot fathom that thought, as I have always viewed it as a curse. With time comes growth, I "hope" I can one day be in that camp. I have to agree with you regarding the lack of good advice on dealing with the anehydonia. On a sep. note, I have been intrigued with ibogaine, not as an addiction interrupter, but rather as a receptor reset.

Recently I have done a great deal of reflection concerning my drug use, specifically it's origins. In my case, there was certainly a void and melancholy that I can trace back to my younger years. To put it mildly, my childhood and adolescent years were less than ideal. The hopelessness and helplessness that I endured I believe caused me to develop compulsive behaviors. Unbeknownst to me, it was all about control and a means for escape. This was accomplished via movies, music and sports. Once I gained exposure to drugs, it was clearly evident that this was the most effective means at escape. Compulsive behaviors then developed into self destructive behaviors. The point I am trying to convey is that with me, my drug use is merely a vehicle or my own feable attempt to feel "normal" or fix the underlying problem. Now I can speculate that my drug use (in the long-term) has greatly exaserbated my original problems. However, I cannot be certain, perhaps my mental shortcomings are progressive in nature and would have grown worse regardless.
 
Read this:
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synthetix said:
Without a shadow of a doubt, yes I agree, there are also various studies that prove that the use of any drug which has effects on a person's neurotransmitters can lead to long term deregulation, as has been seen quite recently in the use of dexamphetamine, D2 transporters were seen to be diminished by up to 40% in comparison to normal. However, that particular study was using very high doses of the drug. Nonetheless, in the end, no matter what drug it is, if you're using it for a long period of time, especially in the developmental years of the brain you're in for a nasty surprise when you stop using. This is most likely the reason as to why I simply cannot stop using opiates anymore, when I stop I crave them so badly I abuse other drugs in the meantime while I wait until I get some more opiates.

However, there is good news! Even for fuck ups like me that have been using since they were 14! In around 1-2 years the receptors will eventually heal to a normal level, and in some cases even heal to beyond a normal level as the brain is tricked into thinking that whatever level of neurotransmitters the drug was producing, you were producing naturally quite literally. People who are 10 years sober of opiates with a long line of history with them for instance feel euphoric at the slightest tingle of any endorphin producing activity such as walking. I know this because I have met many recovering narcotic individuals at several different places (perhaps it's a conspiracy) that say that even the smallest things give them enormous amount of pleasure, and they don't understand why they were using drugs at all for that reason.
Click to expand...

Can you post a link for that study please? I was an amphetemine abuser for years and now suffer with some MH issues. Id be very interested in reading that study.
 
If you have been thru a painful meth induced psychosis.....and you hate come downs with a passion......and I only did hard core drugs for two years. not to say anybody is worse than someone else.....It was a painful thing.....At least when I started to smoke weed and that was all, it was natural and I didn't have the nasty withdraws......I however was one that chose to tell people not to go down this path.....I'm going to be what I set out to be, without a doubt undoubtly. and all those who look down on me, I'm tearin down your balcony......Eminem....had that Hi, and used his music to show what it felt like to be free from Pain killers or whatever pills.....But not everyone feels that way......and I wish I could just show you what liberty feels like but I can't.
 
To me I don't feel good without drugs. I'm less social, unmotivated/desireless, irritable, discontent, anhedonic and fatigued. I'll probably use drugs till the day I die or maybe in middle age I'll slow down. I often think back to when I was younger and the amount of excitement joy that could be experienced from small things and I only feel elated, excited, happy when I'm on drugs - which I used everyday, maintaining inebriated all day. I think my drug use has been a very beneficial event overall - I've learned a heap , had experiences I wouldn't of had, had I not been on drugs - I generally feel like a better person when using/high. It's not because of any egotistical prick mental status, which I don't have a in-your-face greater-then-everyone personality. I have my values/beliefs don't believe in advantage-taking/cheating/thieving/wrong-doing people and fucking hate when someone fucks me over through my kindness..

When I am sober I feel like there's something missing from life, and life becomes bland. I don't believe quitting will ever make me content. Just before recently it had been a year and 1/2 without any methamphetamine, I'd periodically have dreams about it and would wake up right after I got some or did some and started feeling in-dream-drug-sensations - I couldn't go back to sleep once I woke up from one of those dreams - I was irritable/stressed and craved strongly. The only thing that rids of cravings is not thinking about being high, which is extremely hard unless you're doing something really entertaining/enjoyable (which enjoying something is not that easy). I don't think the cravings for drugs ever goes away... I quit smoking for 3 times, for 3 months with three different methods (one cold turkey, 2: welbutrin, 3 patches) and what happens is you start to loose your desire to not smoke/dip. I stopped cause I felt health effects from it (each time) eventually my desire to quit disappeared, my reasons for quitting were nullified and after 3 months without I started back up.

Even when I am on something sometimes I still have urges/cravings for another drug, specifically during the summer I was on Adderall XR and had run out of MXE for months reading about it, hearing would trigger immense desire - even thinking about this as I'm writing it out made me day dream about it/desire. Meth and MXE were my two drugs that would get me desiring the most. And once I start thinking about the drug I drive myself nuts. So far I've been on my longest non-sober streak, over 3 months everyday on something till bed time sometimes on multiple things throughout the day and or combos. My T-Breaks have been consisting of switching from one substance after a few days of use to another, then switching back after a few days. I've never had a time where I've thought my life would be better without drugs - since starting a few years ago. And I'm certain that for me, being clean of any type of drug usage would ever feel whole.

I can't say that drugs haven't been bittersweet, and that my usage hasn't lead to me realizing that when you focus on only one thing, you don't always notice what's around. Meaning if drugs rule your life you're going to miss out on some experiences you're not fully able to appreciate - specifically true for me not communicating/limiting my communications with family members/people who are not drug friendly - The people who I enjoy spending time with know I do drugs and use or used to use. Overall I love drugs more than I have any negative disposition for them, I don't want to be sober and despise sobriety.

I sometimes wish I could both experience life with enjoyment like I was high on life, and also use without any cravings..
I look at sober people and wonder how in the hell do you get so much enjoyment from life? Even doing activities I enjoy, when sober it's so much less.

I think of drugs and life this way: once you've tasted the forbidden fruits in all their glory, anything else becomes bland.

I would never want to influence/have anyone to be like me though, to lose the excitement of normal life and only like your non-sober self - constantly run by doping up before being prepared for doing anything.


Drugs will teach you about yourself, as for me I've learned to be more social and realized many things about myself for which I can work to change if it bothers me or not.
 
I just cannot imagine a life substance free, i really cant. After that first Spliff i smoked when i was 14 that was it
 
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