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[Marmalade]

I do indeed. It takes even more skill to have mass appeal whilst simultaneously making the masses feel unique and special at the same time.

Do you see something essentially wrong with trying to engage the public? Surely if a person wishes to make a political point or get it across, then being able to engage as many people as possible, and also in such a way that gives them a good understanding of the point you're trying to express is a valuable and necessary skill?

You should be able to set that aside from whether you agree with the political point being made

 

[Marmalade]

I'll give reading one of his books a go in the near future then. Lots of writers are total knobs in real life, it comes with the territory. Maybe his style is different for writing fiction, or it is at least more suited to it.

I don't understand why you think he's a knob though. He's not interested in a political following, he's only interested in expressing a political view. He's not a campaigner. He's not looking for approval or kudos or pros or fame. He's the opposite of all those unpleasant parts of political life

He's a writer first and foremost.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Do you see something essentially wrong with trying to engage the public? Surely if a person wishes to make a political point or get it across, then being able to engage as many people as possible, and also in such a way that gives them a good understanding of the point you're trying to express is a valuable and necessary skill?

You should be able to set that aside from whether you agree with the political point being made

He has all the gifts to be a great man, but he squanders them targeting a specific part of the audience. He is only a notch above Simon Cowell in my book. I respect them both for mugging so many people off, but I am also disappointed that they waste so much potential when they could conceivably be a real great.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I don't understand why you think he's a knob though. He's not interested in a political following, he's only interested in expressing a political view. He's not a campaigner. He's not looking for approval or kudos or pros or fame. He's the opposite of all those unpleasant parts of political life

He's a writer first and foremost.

I don't take exception to his apparent non-campaigning, even though a new fact that has just come to my mind is that his fans don't realise his devil may care attitude is actually a ridiculously poor mask of someone who really does.

 

[Marmalade]

Personally I think you've misjudged him hugely. Based on QT performance it seems mainly, and QT is essentially a poor 'debating' platform that is geared to exactly the audience you mentioned earlier. I think the show doesn't really offer a good platform for a great level of depth and whoever goes on there is stuck with that format and audience and timelimits, so it's pretty much impossible to do anything other than surface level discussion.

Live PMQT is even worse tbh, and that's their fucking full time job, lol.

Politically, I'd check out some of the articles he's written for The New Statesman or The Spectator. You most probably wont agree with his points but you might see him in a different light motivationally.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Personally, I knew you would say that. I've read a lot of his articles, including his most recent one in The New Statesman, and I stand by initial assessment of him. It all just stems from this view that if I just 'got' him, then I wouldn't be able to help myself but like him and possibly fall over myself to agree with him. Well I do get him, I just find his style to be unnecessarily pretentious. I place a lot of stock in someone who says something difficult in a really simple and direct way, but Will Self takes easy and safe viewpoints and says them in the most round the houses up his own arse way. The worst part is his apparent talent at acting like he is a man on a desert island when it comes to his views, when his views are largely held by a lot of people, and then his fans go from there onto thinking they too are this sort of special enlightened person. It is just easy enough that a lot of people still get it, but enough people don't so that his fans can feel even better about following him and sharing his viewpoints.

 

[Marmalade]

"I don't really write for readers," Self says when he appears, bearing a packet of coffee. He lights a compact gas camping stove on the corner of his desk and puts a stainless steel espresso maker on to boil. "I think that's the defining characteristic of being serious as a writer. I mean, I've said in the past I write for myself. That's probably some kind of insane egotism but I actually think that's the only way to proceed – to write what you think you have to write. I write desperately trying to keep myself amused or engaged in what I'm doing and in the world. And if people like it, great, and if they don't like it, well, that's that – what can you do? You can't go round and hold a gun to their head."

And one of the reasons why I'm inclined to believe the above is his life choices and his personal life and home life and how he conducts himself there. It totally leans towards everything about him being a genuine bloke, with a respect for people in general, and him having a respect and genuine appreciation that people take the time to read his words

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Yeah, i'm not really buying it. I'm really surprised you can't see through him. You must engage with him and his work in a very superficial way. Who knows, maybe it's not an act and he's not as clever as I give him credit for.

What made you want to write when you were starting out?
There can be no more thrilling idea of intimacy that connecting with someone through the agency of the written word.

[edit] I'm not going to get through to you, am I? I get Will Self, I don't like him.

 

[Marmalade]

Not everyone's got a dodgy hidden agenda to expose. He doesn't stand to gain much from pursuing what you think he is, since he doesn't seem to value the rewards of such a coupe, and I don't stand to lose anything from believing he's genuine, since I've still got a mind of my own, and he's not trying to take that away, no matter what point he's trying to express. This is why it's not in my best interest to distrust. Distrust just closes my mind to being receptive to new information and concepts. I'd like to keep those channels open

I'll leave it at that.

'nite

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

This isn't about revealing a hidden agenda, and never has been. It's not very well hidden to me any way. He doesn't present new information or concepts, he doesn't even present them in a new way. He just presents widely held Guardianesque views in a deliberately whimsical and flippant way, to make it seem like he is some sort of amazing muse to middle class idiots. He always thinks he is the first one to think the things he does, or one of a select few - a revolutionary if you will. He is misunderstanding feelings that we almost universally feel for in depth, rational and logical thought, then wrapping those feelings up in a layer of cod shit 10 ft deep. This is why I keep trying to tell you that I get every last thing he is saying, even though he has tried is damndest to put as many barriers in the way - from being overly verbose to being completely pretentious, I just don't agree and think he is a wanker for writing and talking like that. I use words that could be construed as trying to be difficult sometimes, but that's because i'm trying to find the perfect word for expression, whereas he's using quite often a slightly incorrect word in place of the correct an easy word to project an image of heightened intelligence and gravitas.

Like I said it isn't going to get through to you, so i'm glad this is done. Night night.

 

[Marmalade]

You can't possibly say any of the above with any great authority or objectivity though, because, as you've already pointed out, you've yet to read the main body of his work. He's a novelist and writes mainly using abstract metaphor

When you've done that, you may be able to engage me more with an informed critique of him.

'getting through to me' ... meh

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

You can't possibly say any of the above with any great authority or objectivity though, because, as you've already pointed out, you've yet to read the main body of his work. He's a novelist and writes mainly using abstract metaphor

When you've done that, you may be able to engage me more with an informed critique of him.

'getting through to me' ... meh

I can because i'm talking about his columns and every time i've seen him on TV - and there have been many times. Having read some negative critiques of his books, it seems similar problems I have with his style in those mediums carry over into his fiction too. You are deliberately playing down the volume of writing in columns he does, and the amount of time he is on TV, to make it seem like i'm uninformed, and - once again, that were I to just do xyz I would 'get it'. It is you who doesn't get it, it's all a very deliberate and controlled act.

 

[Marmalade]

I'm not deliberately doing that. I'd be more than happy to fess up if I was.

 

[missing old pills]

I've never tried Herion

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I'm not deliberately doing that. I'd be more than happy to fess up if I was.

Fine, you accidentally missed that he writes an opinion piece somewhere or other almost every week, and is on TV dozens of times in a year, and accidentally attempted to devalue my opinion and put yours on a pedestal because you have engaged with more of his work in a different medium 8)

I've never tried Herion

Really? I thought you'd done everything under the sun? Like Crystal meth? Or is heroin in your no no category?

 

[Marmalade]

Fine, you accidentally missed that he writes an opinion piece somewhere or other almost every week, and is on TV dozens of times in a year, and accidentally attempted to devalue my opinion and put yours on a pedestal because you have engaged with more of his work in a different medium 8)

I did not put mine on a pedestal, that's your perception. I didn't even say I was 'right'.

I'm off Self now. Let's leave him on the done pile

I wish I had an audio book of something to listen to, to help me fall asleep.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I did not put mine on a pedestal, that's your perception. I didn't even say I was 'right'.

O yes, you put your opinion out there knowing it was wrong. I'm glad that's settled then.

 

[Marmalade]

eh? you've lost me on the wrong bit.

Say nice things to me please. I need to think about good things so I can sleep (not about will tho, something else)

 

[backroll]

Because anyone could write like a pretentious prick if they were so inclined. It's not refreshing in any way, you just pull up a chair so you can feel smart. Like I said, Will Self wannabe.

Venting spleen at the rate you do to an assumed audience...you got a lot of hate for Will Self but you are rather succesfully imitating him, all be it on the sly.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much! Similar to when gay people who are not out use the word faggot all the time. Just let go MSB! Be who you want to be! Hate Will Self, and yourself at the same time! It is incredibly rare for someone to whole heartedly attempt to emulate someone in their life's work and I can safely say no one on here comes close to Will Self, apart from Blondin maybe...wannabes are either loners, geniuses, murderers or all three.
Stop fighting your love for pretentious writing! YOU FUCKING LOVE IT

 

[backroll]

Will Self is not on TV loads. And in the year 2012 he was nominated for the Booker Prize. You might say "about time!" but that is one hell of a fucking achievement. And getting sacked from the Guardian for a heroin misdemeanour is a o k with me. I hate people that over rationalise and intellectualise everything, christ they send me up the fucking wall! But we have them, and so we must learn to love them

MSB I never seen you show any vulnerability on this forum and this worries me. However, it bothers me more that you have turned this thread into a Will Self hate show, why, what's he ever done to you? I would be less worried if you hated an inanimate object this much. And your critique of Self reads like rehashed guardian comments