Dreams

[drEaMtiMe*@#]

Wait... what????

You're saying Mankind discovered the Earth was in fact round because some "fucker" had a dream or premonition about it, then went to investigate??? Not only is that a gross oversimplification of historical fact, but it is a nonsensical analogy that does nothing for your argument.

well the reason why that might do nothing for my argument might be because that wasn't what i was saying. what i was saying was that although i don't have "proof" i can almost guarantee that there was some people around back in those times who had an intuition, maybe even some weird dream about walking for miles and miles and the earth seemingly never ending, and then that thrill seeking fucker went out and actually had a look and proved what those other people had a gut feeling about.

You're really taking the concepts being floated here and crossing your wires. What us skeptics are asking for is proof. Proof of the paranormal. Proof of these mystical connections. Proof that there is something greater than ourselves, something we can't see or feel or test for that is connecting all the dots. But of course, there is no proof.

People who believe in fairies and astrology and mystical transcendent presences and telepathy... all I ask for is the proof. As soon as you show me a shred of verifiable evidence, I will gladly jump on the bandwagon. But for now, the only sensible explanation for why you dream what you dream, is that it is your mind sorting through a series of subconscious spasms. There is a verifiable, observable scientific basis for this theory, one where the results can be duplicated. Until you can apply that same set of criteria to your "belief" in the magic power of dreams... then you have nothing. That is a fact. There is no debating it.

as far as 'proof' goes, essentially, when it comes to the entire spectrum of human emotions, how the fuck am i materialistically supposed to PROVE to you what i'm thinking or feeling. i can tell you, right? but what kind of proof is that? i could have had trouble explaining myself thus somewhat making the proof invalid because that's not at all what i was actually thinking or feeling. and on that note, how the fuck am i meant to prove to you that i actually dream at all? oh because they've got this little machine now that we can hook up to your head and we see these irregular brain waves at night. i think THAT is the true oversimplification here.

when it happens to you benefit or to someone close to you, you’ll know that there are such things as prophetic dreams.

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

Someone had to pay attention in Year 8 science and I feel it is my duty to educate you for the good of humanity.

Had to come back to add that last bit in did we? That shows a lot for your wit. Oh well, thanks for putting so much effort into responding to my pathetic comment. I am flattered.

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

as far as 'proof' goes, essentially, when it comes to the entire spectrum of human emotions, how the fuck am i materialistically supposed to PROVE to you what i'm thinking or feeling. i can tell you, right? but what kind of proof is that? i could have had trouble explaining myself thus somewhat making the proof invalid because that's not at all what i was actually thinking or feeling. and on that note, how the fuck am i meant to prove to you that i actually dream at all? oh because they've got this little machine now that we can hook up to your head and we see these irregular brain waves at night. i think THAT is the true oversimplification here.

when it happens to you benefit or to someone close to you, you’ll know that there are such things as prophetic dreams.

And again, well said. You're on fire girl!

 

[Benefit]

oh because they've got this little machine now that we can hook up to your head and we see these irregular brain waves at night. i think THAT is the true oversimplification here.

Uhhh..... ?

Nevermind. It's not important. It is obvious we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. But one day you will have to come to terms with the fact that you are nothing but an orgy of molecules on a rock spinning through space. Everything else is silence.

Unless of course I'm totally wrong (possible but always unlikely), in which case I guess I'll see you in the mystical meadowland behind the Dairy Queen. Except... I don't think they have Dairy Queens into Australia so maybe you can dream yourself into the Dairy Queen in my dream and we can eat ice cream while contemplating the infinite vastness of our own souls while goblins walk on the universe.

 

[lostpunk5545]

Uhhh..... ?

Nevermind. It's not important. It is obvious we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. But one day you will have to come to terms with the fact that you are nothing but an orgy of molecules on a rock spinning through space. Everything else is silence.

Unless of course I'm totally wrong (possible but always unlikely), in which case I guess I'll see you in the mystical meadowland behind the Dairy Queen. Except... I don't think they have Dairy Queens into Australia so maybe you can dream yourself into the Dairy Queen in my dream and we can eat ice cream while contemplating the infinite vastness of our own souls while goblins walk on the universe.

Well said. You're on fire boy!

Now I don't have to write my own post...

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

^You strike me as someone who was either bullied a lot as a kid, or neglected as a child.

 

[lostpunk5545]

Well you'll be glad to know that I was neither but thanks for the concern!

You strike me as someone that may be female, have some piercings, be employed as a hair dresser, and enjoy going to doofs. But there I go again, not making assumptions based on lack of knowledge...

 

[MoeBro]

Just an observation. In this thread, your own thread, dfrs, other than the first post, you've contributed absolutely nothing.


On topic now, I regularly (~2-3 nights a week atm) experience lucid dreams. They rock. Relaxing. Therapeutic, even.
Good fun spent trying to stay at that delicate point where I have awesome control over the dream but don't wake up.
It leads to horrid mornings.

I don't bother looking into deeper meanings in my dreams. My subconscious apparently doesn't hint in obscure ways.

 

[Samadhi]

To me, my dreams are sometimes symbolic - basically me sorting out my 'brain files' and dealing with issues i have in my waking life. More often than not, though, they are completely nonsensical, fun and make me laugh when i wake up. My husband has gotten used to my Daliesque dreams and enjoys listening to the latest plot of my "midnight David Lynch mind movies" . I'll occasionally have a shitty dream, but they seem to have slowed down considerably as i've gotten older.

When i was little, i had horrid dreams and night terrors. I also used to suffer badly from sleep paralysis, but again, that's gotten better as i've aged. They were terrifying, though, as a child.

I used to have a recurring dream when i was young that I still remember to this day, actually more of a recurring nightmare.. I was at the base of a mountain, that was made of large boulders, and there was a rotten egg teetering at the top. Dustin Hoffman (!!??) was in my dream and he was helping me to climb the mountain. In my dream, i knew that if i didn't reach the top, the egg would fall and the world would end. The music in my dream was always "I Want to Know What Love Is" by Foreigner (music is common in my dreams, always has been). Firstly, i have no idea why a 5 year old would dream of Dustin Hoffman, and secondly, whenever i had that dream, i'd wake up screaming, and my mum would always ask "did you have the Dustin Hoffman dream again?"



Come to think of it, when i was little, some of my dreams were absolutely terrifying.

 

[Riot Grrrl]

1 thing i've noticed over the last 6 months.

If i even have a piece of chocolate, or a drink of diet coke/coke anywhere near bedtime, i get the worst nightmares ever.


Even with diet coke, it must be the caffeine in it. But the chocolate, maybe the sugar. But it only ever happens with chocolate or coke/pepsi of some sort.

Anyone else get this?

 

[lostpunk5545]

I'm not sure what the problem is, although I assume you may be sensitive to caffeine in some sense. Chocolate actually contains caffeine as well so I'd say it is that and not sugar.

There is caffeine in chocolate, present only in small amounts. For those who must avoid caffeine completely, this may be bad news. However, for those who can have a small amount of caffeine, the caffeine in chocolate is not likely to be problematic unless one consumes vast quantities of chocolate on a regular basis

Chocolate linked to nightmares


A sleep disorder, in which sufferers unknowingly act out violent nightmares, could be aggravated by chocolate, scientists warn.

Rapid eye movement sleep behaviour disorder, or RBD, affects around one in 200 people, mainly men.

In RBD, sleepers also thrash about and shout as they dream.

But scientists have reassured chocolate and cocoa lovers that there is no evidence linking chocolate to violent sleep patterns in the general population.

There's no cause for panic or to stop eating good chocolate

Maurice Ohayon, Sleep Disorders Center, Stanford University, California The phenomenon of chocolate-stimulated RBD has been documented by Robert Vorona of the Sentara Norfolk General Hospital in Norfolk, Virginia.

Vorona suggests that the caffeine in chocolate helps to block a natural process called atonia that paralyses people during dreams.

That means the sleeper is more free to move.

He studied one man who lashed out in his sleep during recurrent nightmares, in which he tried to protect his home against intruders.

The outbursts happened whenever he had eaten chocolate biscuits, ice cream or syrup.

Case report
Doctors found the problems had begun after the patient had sustained head injuries in a car accident.
But chocolate appeared to make the symptoms much worse.

He has been successfully with sedatives, but the man's symptoms recur if he eats chocolate.

Dr Vorona said: "Far be it from me to say chocolate caused the problem. All it probably did was exacerbate it.

He added: "I admit this is just a case report, but I still think it's interesting."

But Maurice Ohayon of the Sleep Disorders Center at Stanford University, California, said there was no evidence linking chocolate to violent sleep patterns in the general population.

He added: "There's no cause for panic or to stop eating good chocolate."

The report is published in New Scientist, and is due to appear in the journal Sleep Medicine.

Source

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

Just an observation. In this thread, your own thread, dfrs, other than the first post, you've contributed absolutely nothing.

What more do I need to contribute other than what I have already as far as the topic goes? Contribute something worthy yourself before you try to hen pick.

At least i actually start threads and generate discussion. Unlike yourself.

 

[doofqueen]

^^^ here here!!!

*gets pom poms out*

people who say that dreams are nothing but your subconscious sorting through shit, i believe need to become a little less close minded in this particular area.

just because you've never personally experienced any other type of dream other than the regular sorting through your subconscious kind, does not mean that there aren’t other people out there who may have a whole bunch of other types of dreams, including the prophetic kind.

honestly, it astounds me how some highly intelligent people can be so close minded when it comes to anything outside their own physical realm, and not only that but be so arrogant as to in turn state with out most certainty that they are correct on this matter, and that anybody who thinks differently is delusional at best, and stupid at worst.

just because you can't see something, does it mean it's not there or that it's not real? no. we base our realities on our four main sense, this is correct. but at least try and be objective enough and acknowledge that although i have never had any dreams that i would deem as prophetic etc, i can't dismiss the possibility that there might be some people out there that do experience irregular occurrences in term of their dreams/other which i perhaps don't.

after all, just as we’re not all born geniuses like albert einstein or oscar wilde; the list goes on… maybe we aren’t all born with the same ‘other’ talents or capabilities or whatever you want to call them either.

Great post! Can I be part of your cheer squad? Apparently when someone agrees with me on this place they are mine 8)

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

Well last night I had a dream that I had a certain tattoo....was very cool... and unique.

I can't stop thinking about it now. I'm gonna get it done when i have the cash

This is why I think dreams can tell you things at times. Not all the time .... but sometimes.

 

[zephyr]

I have a recurring nightmare thing where I realise I didn't actually go to uni and have been faking having a degree the whole time and have to go back and redo statistics again. I think it relates to the fact I never went to that class in 1st year and got a stunning 8% for my mark, had to redo the course and just scraped in with a 51% conceded pass. I hate stats.

Since the same thing happens every time I have this dream I decided to try and change the ending (as I sort of realise half way through I am dreaming but cant do anything about it) and actually tell my boss that I have my fucking degree, here it is, now kindly fuck off out of my dream time!" I did partially manage this last time the scenario occurred but I suspect Ill have to do it again next time I dream it up. Its getting a little old, having to repeat uni over and over.

 

[preacha]

I have a recurring nightmare thing where I realise I didn't actually go to uni and have been faking having a degree the whole time and have to go back and redo statistics again.

for most people in my line of work i think this is a reality

 

[phase_dancer]

...But one day you will have to come to terms with the fact that you are nothing but an orgy of molecules on a rock spinning through space.

I like that statement. Good posts also lostpunk, but it looks like the 'science infidels' outnumbered the rational thinkers yet again

I would say dreaming can help with realisation, but as for predicting the future...show me some proof? In all my 48 years I've never met anyone who has been able to accurately predict the future, by dreams or any psychic method. I've met many who claimed they could, but no-one has ever produced a scrape of evidence. However, to realise something is likely to happen because you have weighed up the likelihood of it happening is a very different thing. In this sense, I'm quite sure dreaming can help reveal probable outcomes.


Over the years I've done some experimenting with dream states and certain drugs, electromagnetic stimuli, plants and foods etc. I find some curries can be great stimulaters for wild dreams, but my favourite dream inducing agent is mugwort, picked fresh (best at the end of summer) and simply placed in your pillow case. Mugwort (artemesia vulgaris) not only facilitates lucid dreaming, but for some people it also seems to allow control of how the dream develops.

What's more amazing is that you are often able to re-enter a dream after waking during the night, something that I cannot naturally do. With Mugwort, you also often remember finer details of dreams. As a bonus, despite being mentally active during sleep, you wake up feeling refreshed and well slept. An important point to note is that the mugwort must be fresh in order to get the most from it. The dried wormwood is considerably weaker in this regard, and the fresh herb only maintains it's potency for a few days (nights). I don't advocate using it internally as thujone is quite toxic, although it can be smoked or prepared as a tea.

Some people don't remember their dreams, including many pot smokers. Mugwort seems to work with most people, regardless of what they smoke and even if they've never ever remembered a single dream.


Aside from mugwort induced dreaming, the most amazing dream state I've encountered - 4 occasions that I've been able to recall - is flying. Each time I've experienced this it has been shortly after falling asleep. The feeling is absolutely amazing, as my senses seemed heightened to an extraordinary level. I've felt the wind in my face, the woopsy tummy feeling from a fast descent as well as the G force of a quick turn. After each time, I've woken quickly and have felt an incredible wave of euphoria which has stayed with me for days. Unlike katmeow, 3 out of the 4 flying dreams have occurred in my adulthood. college_dropout's recurring dream strikes some similarities as in 2 of the 4 I've remembered being chased prior to flying, but it's never been anything scary. It's like I've suddenly become very light and just ride the breeze.

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

What I find interesting is how they have used some psychics to solve murder cases. Without the psychics help with some cases they were actually no where near finding out the happenings of certain cases. Some in Australia - a girl (I cant remember her name now) who lived in Frankston was taken and killed by basically a group of junkies who were looking for a thrill kill. That girl was never heard of or seen and nothing was able to be found out for about 13 years until they got a psychic man in. I have seen the documentary. Roll your eyes all you like. If you want proof, you will have to open your mind up first phase_dancer.

Bagging people because they think differently to you is really quite immature. Think about it, if we all thought the same how fucking boring would it be.

 

[phase_dancer]

What I find interesting is how they have used some psychics to solve murder cases.

Unless the cases are scrutinised by properly accredited individuals, we can never be sure the psychics aren't merely solving cases better than the police i.e. they are intuitive and simply pick up on clues the police have either missed or failed to properly relate to the case. I'm sure I don't need to say just because a television producer makes a program or film about it, it doesn't mean it's true.

Look at Erich von Däniken's 'The Chariots of the Gods'. It was widely held as all being factual by many who read the book or saw the film - unless of course you questioned his claims and dug a bit deeper. Yet following its release so much was exposed as nothing more than pseudoscience at best and absolute BS at worst. Similar can be said of the more recent Divinci code. But still, in the face of reason, people blindly believe. Do I have trouble with that? You betcha, because ultimately its not just the blind believers who get hurt. Shattering such long held beliefs causes many people to respond by ignoring reason. They tend to think irrationally, and so do irrational things which can often affect the lives of others.

If psychics were able to demonstrate this ability, then why has no-one ever collected the large prize sums offered by the skeptics (Dick Smith, American Skeptics association, etc)? And don't say they don't do it for the money as I know quite a few who do readings for money and most of those cry poverty most of the time.

I don't bag anyone who can substantiate claims with factual, or rationale explanations. I'll bag anyone who accepts such in blind faith, particularly if they refuse to be rational. It's the main reason followers of religion have fucked the world so much throughout history.

You might remember me saying that I spent a very large portion of my life studying occult sciences. I meditated daily, and advanced well through hermetic initiation. I attended workshops in alchemy, and spent many hours developing my psychic skills'. I don't think I told you that I have a very strong ability to dowse for water. Once I'm warmed up, I can do it without the need for a wand, stick etc and for those who can't do it, I can hold their elbows and they will feel the same feeling when passing over underground water. I can also use a pendulum (and have found several lost items like this) and spent 2 years working with a $10,000 German made radionics device which was sent to me by an, at the time unknown 'admirer'. I "stick" very well to the radionics rubber plate and used it successfully on many occasions.

But do I place faith in radionics? No, because it's too subjective, and there's no way of accurately verifying each and every 'reading'. I have used dowsing to accurately find water on many occasions, but I still advise exercising caution as it too - the tingling in my palms - is completely subjective.

Science may not be able to yet explain every phenomena in absolute detail, but it explains most things very well. In a world saturated in untruths, deception and destruction, science does provide a solid pillar of reference. So while I don't bag others just because they think differently, I do believe in scrutinizing any belief or following, particularly if a person feels the need to make his/her views public or attempt to convince or persuade others that the concept is real. Doubting things, pulling things to pieces, understanding the mechanisms of how they work (or don't) has been the main means by which mankind has advanced throughout the ages. If we didn't question, doubt and seek proof of such notions, we'd still be living in caves, bowing to all manner of false gods and deities.

 

[drugfukkdrockstar]

I don't bag anyone who can substantiate claims with factual, or rationale explanations. I'll bag anyone who accepts such in blind faith, particularly if they refuse to be rational. It's the main reason followers of religion have fucked the world so much throughout history.

Fair enough, but i don't recall anyone coming on here and saying they believe in psychics, and in dreams and what they mean totally and completely. All I have done was start a thread and asked the question on what people thought. A lot of people on here seem to be curious, but no one including myself has come out and said they totally believe in it. I think you are getting people with an open mind confused with people accepting things in blind faith. I know that I am curious and that is really as far as it goes as far as myself. I can't speak for others on here.