Opioids Dr is trying to get me off Oxy & switch to Suboxone

[Scoliosis]

Hello to all, here is the overview;

I have marked / severe scoliosis and other legit pain in my limbs.

Current Oxy daily doses for relief;

80mg x 1 every 8 hours.
10mg Oxycodone Instant Release x 4 per day as required.

My family doc cut me off after I came to refill 5 days early - told him I ran out due to taking a half - 1 extra 80mg per day due to my excessive physical activity.
I am now in the grips of a pain clininc at a local Hospital.

The pain clinic doc is planning to put me on Methadone - I declined to the severe side effects & so on.

Now they are heading to Suboxone. The next 1-2 months is when they plan to make me transition.

My QUESTION here is simple. How can I tell them I would like to remain on my current Oxy treatment and NOT switch to Subox or any other drug?

All of your feedback and comments are welcome and will be immensely appreciated!!! %)%)%)%)

 

[hydrochron]

Bluelight is for harm reduction not telling you how to talk to your Dr.s, What I can say though if you have pain and use your medication as prescribed you should be fine.

 

[Scoliosis]

Yes I understand, Thank you hydrochon.

I am looking for some coaching or feedback , so can I simply tell the doc I am happy with the current treatment and that's final?

HARM REDUCTION is what my focus is - I have heard much much negative and risky stuff from other pain patients that have switched from Oxy to -- - - -- Methadone / Suboxone ..etc...

Thanks for your quick reply and have a good evening!!

 

[AllOverItPDX]

You should just try being honest and let them know you are skeptical about the suboxone as your friend that takes it says it isnt that effective for pain. It might even come down to you trying the subs for a month then call every day or every other day till your next visit and let him know how much they arent working.

It's hard to tell you what you should say to your doc so he will keep you on the OC but maybe some fellow Canadians will be able to help ya out more. Good luck on your endeavors either way and keep us posted!

Oh and why are you so against taking methadone? If you really are in alot of pain you might consider giving it a try as it is very effective for that reason. Besides, if you do a good taper at the end of your treatment the withdrawals aren't as bad as everyone says they are. Not trying to downplay methadone withdrawals as they are very very shitty but if done right they dont have to be. Also depends on how much longer you plan on taking opiates.

Hell, you could even get on Methadone for a while and then do the whole switch over to subs (kinda a pain in the ass) and taper down with the subs. But it kinda seems like your pain situation might be long term if not indefinite.

 

[Scoliosis]

Exactly!! - the withdrawals !!! - this is what I am trying to avoid altogether.

Methadone - the same reason - withdrawals and the stigma attached with it locally = that I am a drug addict or have addiction issues!

I am not, nor have I abused Oxy. I simply got red flagged due to my taking more than prescribed (80mg x 3 per day / every 8 hours) and coming 4-5 days early.

I communicated to the doc that i am not an addict, rather fall into the pseudoaddiction category.

I took more than prescribed because I was pushing my body physically to be normal and do the things I used to do when the pain was not as bad. Not because I was snorting them or selling them or whatever else.

You should just try being honest and let them know you are skeptical about the suboxone as your friend that takes it says it isnt that effective for pain. It might even come down to you trying the subs for a month then call every day or every other day till your next visit and let him know how much they arent working.

It's hard to tell you what you should say to your doc so he will keep you on the OC but maybe some fellow Canadians will be able to help ya out more. Good luck on your endeavors either way and keep us posted!

Oh and why are you so against taking methadone? If you really are in alot of pain you might consider giving it a try as it is very effective for that reason. Besides, if you do a good taper at the end of your treatment the withdrawals aren't as bad as everyone says they are. Depends on how long you plan on taking opiates.....

 

[jamesBrown]

First of all, we can't "coach" you on what to say to your doctor in order to persuade him one way or another. That is NOT harm reduction.

If you are in pain, and your true goal is to keep that pain at bay, then your best bet is to listen to your doctor. Honestly, by the way you have been posting, it seems to me that you only want to stay on the oxy because it gets you more high than suboxone/methadone would. This may not be true but its how you come across. And it probably is how you would come across to a doctor. I mean, you havent even given us a reason as to why you wouldnt want to try another medication....you simply asked for advice on how to manipulate your doctor into keeping you on the oxy.

If I were you, I would take the medication that my doctor prescribes me, and be honest with him/her as to how effective it is at killing my pain. I do not see any reason why you shouldnt give methadone or suboxone a try. they are both very potent opiates. Suboxone is ~40x's stronger than morphine. If you actually DO come up with a valid reason as to why you shouldnt switch your medication....you should tell THAT to your doctor.

I really dont know what other advice you want us to give.

*You say you want to avoid withdrawals and thats why you dont want to switch.....well, guess what, suboxone withdrawals are much less severe than oxy withdrawals. Especially at the low doses you will be taking, because suboxone only acts as a painkiller at doses lower than ~2mg's. And I can tell you from personal experience(I take ~2mg's of sub every day) that I can stop taking my suboxone anytime with no withdrawal effects because im at such a low dose. Oxy withdrawals are HELL, I know that from personal experience as well*

 

[Scoliosis]

Not so Jim Bob.

As per my reply the primary reason(s) are mentioned. And no I am not getting a buzz of high from this medication. But this is what I have found from my research and speaking with people with similar disabilities as I.

I am not looking to manipulate anyone or anyones words as have you. The severe side effects and stigma are my reasons.

My personal long term goal is to cut down on this medication as much as humanely possible & look into natural - drug free - solutions such as physio, massage, swimming, exercise, etc...

I simply dont want to get swallowed up by this stuff and become a slave to it- as others have so regrettably. That's it.

But I do see how you read deeper and in between the lines Jim-boi, I would have too. And this is why so many people with legit congenital physical disabilities have been going thru HELL on earth due to the people that are abusing meds and getting all fuktt up on them. I had no idea they were being sold, or abused - snorted, iv'd - etc... until only 7 months after starting Oxy*

And I do appreciate your feedback and reply. Just please don't get me confused with the other people that are messing with the program.

Cheers, %)

First of all, we can't "coach" you on what to say to your doctor in order to persuade him one way or another. That is NOT harm reduction.

If you are in pain, and your true goal is to keep that pain at bay, then your best bet is to listen to your doctor. Honestly, by the way you have been posting, it seems to me that you only want to stay on the oxy because it gets you more high than suboxone/methadone would. This may not be true but its how you come across. And it probably is how you would come across to a doctor. I mean, you havent even given us a reason as to why you wouldnt want to try another medication....you simply asked for advice on how to manipulate your doctor into keeping you on the oxy.

If I were you, I would take the medication that my doctor prescribes me, and be honest with him/her as to how effective it is at killing my pain. I do not see any reason why you shouldnt give methadone or suboxone a try. they are both very potent opiates. Suboxone is ~40x's stronger than morphine. If you actually DO come up with a valid reason as to why you shouldnt switch your medication....you should tell THAT to your doctor.

I really dont know what other advice you want us to give.

 

[jamesBrown]

Not so Jim Bob.

As per my reply the primary reason(s) are mentioned. And no I am not getting a buzz of high from this medication. But this is what I have found from my research and speaking with people with similar disabilities as I.

I am not looking to manipulate anyone or anyones words as have you. The severe side effects and stigma are my reasons.

My personal long term goal is to cut down on this medication as much as humanely possible & look into natural - drug free - solutions such as physio, massage, swimming, exercise, etc...

I simply dont want to get swallowed up by this stuff and become a slave to it- as others have so regrettably. That's it.

But I do see how you read deeper and in between the lines Jim-boi, I would have too. And this is why so many people with legit congenital physical disabilities have been going thru HELL on earth due to the people that are abusing meds and getting all fuktt up on them. I had no idea they were being sold, or abused - snorted, iv'd - etc... until only 7 months after starting Oxy*

And I do appreciate your feedback and reply. Just please don't get me confused with the other people that are messing with the program.

Cheers, %)

I NEVER said that you were getting high off of them....I said that that is how you came across. Its how you made it sound. Please do not misunderstand that point.

Also...there are many more serious side effects that come with taking oxy than there are with suboxone(and methadone but not as much). Tens of thousands more people are addicted to/dependant upon oxycodone than they are upon suboxone. You are much more likely to have "serious side effects" or "complications" on oxy than you are with suboxone. Try looking up overdoses of oxy compared to suboxone. I think you might be suprised.

And if you are trying to cut down on your medication as much as possible and end up with non-drug, natural solutions.....than, again, I would recommend suboxone....for the exact same reasons that I recommended it in my last post. It is MUCH easier to get off of than oxy is, especially at the doses you are at. You would probably only be prescribed about 2mg's or less of suboxone and at those doses, you would barely even have to taper down to get off of the suboxone. This will make your goal of "naltural solutions" much easier to achieve. I can see why the doctors want to switch you over.

Oh, and, dont call me "Jim Bob"....or "Jim-boi".....I really dont appreciate the disrespect. Im just trying to help you. And once again, ALL these concerns you have as to why you dont want to switch your medication....tell them TO YOUR DOCTOR. I think they will tell you about the same thing I just did.

 

[adicabrady]

If you truly are in pain,I think it might not be a bad idea to try methadone.It is a good pain killer.As was written before,you can do a taper if you want to get off of it.You didn't state if your pain was going to be permanent or temporary.If permanent,you shouldn't have to be worried about coming off of the methadone.You can just stay on it.

If this is just addiction,I can understand why you want to keep the Oxies.Suboxone (which I take) is pretty good for the drug urges BUT I think it is a lousy pain killer.

I think if you want the best advise,you should state whether the pills you take are needed for pain or if you are looking for a buzz.

 

[adicabrady]

Also,running out of pills early is a sign to most doctors that you are taking them for reasons other then pain.Keep in mind that doctors have been dealing with addicts for a long time,they have reason to be suspicious.

 

[jamesBrown]

If you truly are in pain,I think it might not be a bad idea to try methadone.It is a good pain killer.As was written before,you can do a taper if you want to get off of it.You didn't state if your pain was going to be permanent or temporary.If permanent,you shouldn't have to be worried about coming off of the methadone.You can just stay on it.

If this is just addiction,I can understand why you want to keep the Oxies.Suboxone (which I take) is pretty good for the drug urges BUT I think it is a lousy pain killer.

I think if you want the best advise,you should state whether the pills you take are needed for pain or if you are looking for a buzz.

He stated that he WAS NOT looking to get high or get a buzz. He jsut wants his pain taken away.

And yes, methadone is a good painkiller, and you dont have to worry about the "stigma" of it because you wont have to go to a clinic everyday, since its being prescribed for pain, you can get monthly prescriptions. You would take it exactly like your oxy's.

And suboxone is a VERY good pain killer you just have to be taking it in the right doses. Anything under 2 mg's usually works....sometimes you have to go lower than 1mg, but in my opinion, the lower you go, the better it works. In fact, bupernorphine is prescribed AS A PAINKILLER under the brand name Tamgesic...and it only comes in doses of 0.2-0.4mg's. At higher doses, bupe loses its painkilling properties.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

All you can do is find a pain management doctor who is willing to continue your prescription to oxycodone for pain.

I understand scoliosis is a painful condition, and I am sorry you have to suffer while doctors try to shove you onto ORT medications when you don't have an opiate problem.

 

[ATLL765]

I would take CH's advice here. I'm not from Canada and I don't have a very good understanding of their health care system, so I don't know if my advice here is not applicable, but if it was me in your position, I would be thinking that I'm the paying customer and if I'm not satisfied with the services being rendered, I'm taking my business elsewhere. So my advice is try another doctor/pain management clinic.

If you truly cannot function without pain management, then even if your current doctor can't see it, maybe another will. If you get the same answer from another doctor, maybe it's time you rethink what's best for you and take at this point what would be multiple doctors advice and try methadone or suboxone. Although I'd much prefer methadone as I don't find subs to be very good in the way of killing pain and from what I understand the low doses necessary to feel the pain killing effects, you'd need to take such low doses which may not be feasible due to your current opiate tolerance.

Anyone please correct my thoughts on subs for killing pain because I've never used it in the low doses which would work for that, so my knowledge of it is not all that great.

 

[ejnjgrl822]

your against taking suboxone/ methadone (i could understand being anti methadone) because of the withdraws? your taking what 160-240 mg of oxy correct? you do realize if you were to stop that the withdrawal would be HORRIBLE. From what i hear and noticed suboxone is a pretty good painkiller (i too have back problems) when taken in small doses.
why are you so anti suboxone? im pretty sure oxy has way more/ harsher side effects than suboxone does.

 

[Paulination]

how fucking dare they do that to you a person with legit pain. fuck its the same with my grandma she has pain everywhere and they have her on nothing. all doctors care about are their own asses he was probably worried hed get in trouble for having you on pain meds for so long fucking doctors they say they overprescribe and we say they underprescribe. get a diff doc hopefully a kind one that understands what your going thru. or if u arent able to do that tell them you wanna stay on your pain meds or youll just leave to go to a different doctor and hopefully theyll reconsider

 

[Scoliosis]

I am not trying to be rude or so, it was mere humor - and this is why communicating via e-mail can so easily be thrown out of context.

I NEVER said that you were getting high off of them....I said that that is how you came across. Its how you made it sound. Please do not misunderstand that point.

Also...there are many more serious side effects that come with taking oxy than there are with suboxone(and methadone but not as much). Tens of thousands more people are addicted to/dependant upon oxycodone than they are upon suboxone. You are much more likely to have "serious side effects" or "complications" on oxy than you are with suboxone. Try looking up overdoses of oxy compared to suboxone. I think you might be suprised.

And if you are trying to cut down on your medication as much as possible and end up with non-drug, natural solutions.....than, again, I would recommend suboxone....for the exact same reasons that I recommended it in my last post. It is MUCH easier to get off of than oxy is, especially at the doses you are at. You would probably only be prescribed about 2mg's or less of suboxone and at those doses, you would barely even have to taper down to get off of the suboxone. This will make your goal of "naltural solutions" much easier to achieve. I can see why the doctors want to switch you over.

Oh, and, dont call me "Jim Bob"....or "Jim-boi".....I really dont appreciate the disrespect. Im just trying to help you. And once again, ALL these concerns you have as to why you dont want to switch your medication....tell them TO YOUR DOCTOR. I think they will tell you about the same thing I just did.

 

[Scoliosis]

i see that now, after many many weeks of research I was totally out of the loop - and am furious with them - last time the doc questioned my use I got REALLY anxious , angry & upset and turned red in the face -

As a person with a physical disability & more* you would assume they could see past that however i know there are sooooo many people abusing this stuff now that my fight will be nothing less than tough.

From my experiences i have seen much poor judgment and assessment by my dr's - many people that understand my real situation and know me tell me the docs are too smart for their own good and they are relying on textbook's to treat people and NOT COMMON SENSE*

Seriously, if we could sit down for 20 minutes and I tell you what I have been through and seen in these past 2 months you and any average reasonable person would not keep their cool - and simply freak out & wanna scream. No kidding.

Also,running out of pills early is a sign to most doctors that you are taking them for reasons other then pain.Keep in mind that doctors have been dealing with addicts for a long time,they have reason to be suspicious.

 

[purple_cloud]

How can I tell them I would like to remain on my current Oxy treatment and NOT switch to Subox or any other drug?

Did you try straight up telling them that? Thats how I stopped going to my previous doctor, I told her that I wanted benzos for as needed use and not to be on a daily psych medication, and she said she disagreed with that...daily meds were better than as needed ones. That's okay, just time to find someone new. The more you beat around the bush about it, the more they are going to think you are looking for drugs. If you have MRIs/etc proving that you have legit pain, from my experience, doctors don't leave you hurting. I feel like many doctors do overprescribe, but this guy doesn't seem like he's trying to save his ass. Perhaps he is working from what he's seen work with other patients and wants you to try it?

I don't have chronic pain, I have on and off backpain and whenever it hurts and I go to a dr, I get a script. They can tell I'm in pain and not lying, generally I can even tell if a "friend" is telling me they are in "pain" and want to know if I have anything spare hanging around. Being in pain sucks, and I also think you should mention to the dr about how you don't wanna be on drugs forever. That you are currently looking for a natural approach, maybe even ask for some suggestions to incorporate it into your medication regiment? I think willingness to try new things also shows honesty, because I know if I'm hurting and I get a suggestion about even a simple exercise which may help, I'm eager to try something new before I dismiss it as not working --- give other opiates a chance, you might be surprised with what happens.

 

[Scoliosis]

thanks capt.,

the issue now is that my previous family doc that cut me off due to coming early might not want to continue with this treatment - the pain doc spoke to him and says he will take me on again as a patient however I simply have not called him (should have 4 weeks ago*) because I am still so furious with the way he spoke to me - as if I was a criminal & worse** I now understand why he did , only after 2 months of speaking to people like you and others on forums and locally with serious lifelong chronic pain issues.

Example; i also get intermittent SEVERE - 3-5 day migraines every so often, and the doc thinks its from the oxy. i know its not cuz triggers like perfumes, pollution, stress will bring them on only.

I also had seen a neurologist at this pain clinic and you would not believe what he said; "i dont think your migraines should be that bad" .... i almost dropped to the floor. he was almost in disbelief I even had them. i am telling you, I have seen some serious sociopathic docs .

All you can do is find a pain management doctor who is willing to continue your prescription to oxycodone for pain.

I understand scoliosis is a painful condition, and I am sorry you have to suffer while doctors try to shove you onto ORT medications when you don't have an opiate problem.

 

[Scoliosis]

you obviously saw and read my other post about trying natural remedies and so on - THANK YOU!!

I did mention this and its like they are not hearing me, they are programmed and almost have tunnel vision.

i think you are right when you say they have seen similar patients and "it has worked for them"!!

But again, i dont want to move up the ladder here - rather, down. And cut down.

I will never be able to work 40- 60 hour weeks again ( I was doing Sales in Internet marketing / SEO) so i was on the pc all day, phones, email, etc... my hands just cant take the repetition - typing this and other replied is max-ing out my ability and the pain is getting significant* This is why i had to break yesterday,

Seriously, if it wasn;t for all of this meaningful and good feedback nowaayyy would i be typing this much. Noooo way jose.

Best regards! %)

Did you try straight up telling them that? Thats how I stopped going to my previous doctor, I told her that I wanted benzos for as needed use and not to be on a daily psych medication, and she said she disagreed with that...daily meds were better than as needed ones. That's okay, just time to find someone new. The more you beat around the bush about it, the more they are going to think you are looking for drugs. If you have MRIs/etc proving that you have legit pain, from my experience, doctors don't leave you hurting. I feel like many doctors do overprescribe, but this guy doesn't seem like he's trying to save his ass. Perhaps he is working from what he's seen work with other patients and wants you to try it?

I don't have chronic pain, I have on and off backpain and whenever it hurts and I go to a dr, I get a script. They can tell I'm in pain and not lying, generally I can even tell if a "friend" is telling me they are in "pain" and want to know if I have anything spare hanging around. Being in pain sucks, and I also think you should mention to the dr about how you don't wanna be on drugs forever. That you are currently looking for a natural approach, maybe even ask for some suggestions to incorporate it into your medication regiment? I think willingness to try new things also shows honesty, because I know if I'm hurting and I get a suggestion about even a simple exercise which may help, I'm eager to try something new before I dismiss it as not working --- give other opiates a chance, you might be surprised with what happens.