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Douchebag selling TMNT Doses as LSD.

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This is a moral discussion, there is something to say for both arguments and it's almost a lose-lose situation though I gotta say I have very little sympathy for such a vendor. I don't feel much for everyone here saying basically you're a dick if you do narc and you're a dick if you don't because you are a potential accomplice to harm that may be done.

So, I suppose this announcement would be of value to the US community / forum so I think I will just copy the OP there. Though it is uncomfortable the discussion on what is the moral thing to do when you know someone that sells research chemicals as LSD is an important one I think, but keep an eye on the flaming, seriously. I want to see a fair argument that is not too personal so no useless namecalling. It doesn't help anyone and only sends a bad vibe through here.

In my opinion it matters if said vending person is considered a friend or only an acquaintance. If it is not a friend and there is no social network that would be endangered I might consider an anonymous warning first, if this is not heeded then perhaps ratting in the interest of users who would otherwise perhaps overdose. No it's true we don't want LEO involved in general at all, but are you willing to sacrifice people for that?
If it's a friend I'd try persuading and I wouldn't take no for an answer easily.
 
Solipsis said:
In my opinion it matters if said vending person is considered a friend or only an acquaintance. If it is not a friend and there is no social network that would be endangered I might consider an anonymous warning first, if this is not heeded then perhaps ratting in the interest of users who would otherwise perhaps overdose. No it's true we don't want LEO involved in general at all, but are you willing to sacrifice people for that?
If it's a friend I'd try persuading and I wouldn't take no for an answer easily.
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agreed.
apologies if the character of the debate is approaching flaming, but i do not feel that involving law enforcement solves any problems.
i might sound like george bush to you, Transcendence, but i was really referring to the sort of community spirit that used to exist in counter-culture circles when it was agreed that "we" did not cooperate with "the man" because it does nothing but play into their hands. "whose side are you on?" is one of those catch-cries of the 1960s civil rights era in the USA, correct? polar opposite of a bush-ism, really - and while i am not one for black-and-white dualisms, i think there is (or should be!) an understanding that unless someone has been hurt or killed by a dodgy deal, the police should never be brought into it.
then again, i'm not the one who lives in the country with the highest amount of imprisoned citizens of any nation in human history.
perhaps you believe in karma.
perhaps you understand the power of word-of-mouth.
perhaps you realise that sometimes people think they've been gypped when in fact they have not. it does happen.

it is a moral debate, and obviously that brings us to an impasse, but i suppose i wish people understood that we are ALL victims of the "war on drugs" and we are all in this together. unless we are police informants, of course.
you know what i mean?
 
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DwayneHoover said:
Only if you are willing to sign a confession that you bought and consumed an illegal drug and also go to jail as well. I never said drug dealers were a "protected class." Obviously, according to the law, he should have been in jail even if it was the purest cleanest LSD on the planet, or in the US even if it was blank but he merely represented it as LSD. Selling something as something else is in no way more illegal. Just more unethical.

(Oh, is there evidence that 25i-NBOMe is "deadly"? If so, we would all be interested it that... I had not heard that. So I really dont think this is on a par with like selling rat poison as coke or something like that, which is what you seem to be implying. Just because people can eat dozens of hits of LSD without physical harm does not mean they SHOULD do so just because some dude they dont know they bought SOMETHING from in a crowd somewhere told them that its LSD)
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I agree with that first paragraph. I read somewhere that 25i can be fatal in the 5-6 mg range... if some one ate a 10 strip thinking it was weak L it could be potentially dangerous... i'm trying to find the place I read that i'll post it when I do
 
People have indeed died from 25B - at least 1 reported death - so while it may not be as acute a problem as for example Bromo-dragonfly this class of compounds is not safe either. And assuming that people typically swallow their doses is based on what, anecdotal evidence on your part? My anecdotal evidence says otherwise, furthermore if people get stuff they think is weak, they might go and do 'ten-strips' to compensate for that.

Yes it's unlikely that there would be actual death but I have personal experience although limited to tell me that there can be adrenergic-like activity causing vasoconstriction and a weird kind of stimulation and that is at a relatively quite low dose of 25D. And I read that 25I can be the same in stimulating in some respects. It felt like I would not want this effect to be tripled, that might really feel physically scary to me - and like I said I only took a low dose namely 400 ug. Actually I found 25C to be much better and it did not have this messy effect, I prefer to explore that one.

That they will probably survive is not something that is enough to make me feel comfortable, also I said: it would matter to me if it's a dick operating alone or a social network that would be under ruthless scrutiny as collateral damage. It all factors in but it's hard to say what is the least bad scenario.
 
isnt all the good lsd not available now cuz of hte winter ?? gott waita c ouple months?
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^Yeah the LSD tree's won't come back into full bloom until spring


But seriously the NBOMe's are like 99% ineffective oraly so the whole argument is mute. 5-Meo-AMT on the other hand....
 
They are active sublingually though, I can't help but staying concerned - but really it may be that inappropriate use of NBOMe type compounds concern me in general these days.

So I wouldn't call the discussion moot but maybe it doesn't deserve much more attention beyond this point.
 
spacejunk said:
it is a moral debate, and obviously that brings us to an impasse, but i suppose i wish people understood that we are ALL victims of the "war on drugs"
Click to expand...

Good point, and where I was leading... in a way the "bad drug dealer" is indeed a sort of special case, and so are WE as buyers, and the "good dealer" etc etc... we are ALL enmeshed into an offset/subset sort of area of ethics, because like it or not we are all forcibly placed in the muddle of an alternate ethical realm generated by the immoral imposition of a system that criminalizes what OUGHT to be perfectly legal transactions between consenting adults. Note that if not for the "drug war" the buy would be FDA-regulated, and conducted by legitimate business via regular legal merchants with OTHER legal stakes at play for them if the DO substitute even with something harmless, or sell total bunk, which WOULD act as its own incentive if not for the improper and unjust laws. I agree that unless it is totally clear that the substance IS likely to be more dangerous that actual LSD or unless people can be proven to have been already actually harmed, then the correct course of action is to NOT report the "bad dealer" However, if it can be shown that what is actually on them is something MORE DANGEROUS THAN WHAT IT WAS CLAMED TO BE, or if people can be shown to have actually been harmed BY THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, other obligations "higher" than "dont help the evil flawed system by snitching and participating in it and supporting it" come into play.

But you just don't snitch because "substituting one drug for an illegal drug" is "bad", or because "possibly maybe in some OTHER hypothetical situation someone MIGHT get harmed." To do so is to be responsible for falling into the hypnosis of the demented rationalizations of an evil coercive system of repression, as Trascendence's knee-jerk reaction would have us do... Gotta CAREFULLY be VERY suspicious of those "moral knee jerk reactions" when you start involving guys legally sanctioned to use handcuffs and guns and jails and the like. Very tricky waters, my friend.

There are chapters and chapters written in some of the classic "Libertarian" philosophy treatises on this sort of thing. I am not fond of other aspects of Libertarianism, but their analysis of the skewed/distorted ethical realm of government "Drug Wars" is deep and totally spot-on, look it up if you get the chance (just don't get sucked into the rest of their silly tripe haha), it is VERY VERY fascinating and VERY helpful in such dilemmas. My positions are NOT based on some "immature gangsta fantasy" believe me.
 
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bromo-dragonfly or some of the DOx chems are probably more of a concern. obviously it sucks when people misrepresent drugs they are selling, but this is the unfortunate reality of any black market trade, and why we all need to be vigilant and careful. sample a print before you go nuts on it, LSD isn't like MDMA or other drugs that are easy to test. i'm sure i'm not the only one here who would rather drop multiple tabs every trip, but if you are unfamiliar with the supplier, the print or the source, it can only be recommended that you sample a single tab (or at least a low dose) first.

as for the LSD being gone for the winter? it's not winter everywhere...
 
would anyone happen to have a link to that confirmed 25B death - or perhaps any other links to relative instances? i am not surprised given the vasoconstriction this class (and similar others) of drugs are known to cause.
 
Forget the cops, just spread the word that he misrepresents his doses. Word will spread fast, and his business will quickly die.

I've seen it done before, this guy Felix around here likes to sell RC's as LSD. He even sold DOx to a friend of mine. Not to mention I bought doses off him a few months back and they were not LSD at all, definitely an RC.
 
I got too tired to read everyones response about the cops and bullshit.... Fuck that shit. Me and my boys just showed up and gave him an ass whooping hell never forget... And I didnt just jump to doing that. He kept trying to tell me it was LSD and not an RC, when everyone who took it could tell it was NOT LSD. Fucking chump.
 
OK so sorted.

Check NSADD forum for the copied OP, you can check there what comments you get on this stuff being around. Might also just be closed or merged though.
 
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