DOF - First 7 Trials - A Workup of an Obscure, Potentially Psychedelic Amphetamine

[Xorkoth]

That's interesting, I wonder how much cross-over there is in the type of halogen across different classes of drugs and different substitution positions? Questions like these are why, despite some people saying that all these different psychedelics/drugs are basically the same thing, I think it's super fascinating to be able to explore so many and compare the differences (and there are tons of differences, though if you had only tried a few things, I could see why you might not really notice them).

 

[fairnymph]

Agreed. I should probably make a proper list, as it's purely mental right now. I have some weird theories that are more metaphysical, at least currently.

 

[Xorkoth]

Nice, I'd like to hear them.

 

[Kaleida]

This as an awesome and incredibly thorough report, thanks so much for writing it! It is certainly incredibly meaningful to get this much information, even if from just one subject, on such an unbelievably obscure and underexplored but potentially interesting substance.... The way you describe it definitely does make it sound more interesting than anything else that's ever been written about it, and from what you had to say on it specifically, speaking of course purely from an outside perspective I would have to agree that it seems quite possible that the people who originally tested it simply didn't have the amount and variety of psychedelic experience necessarily to properly grasp or frame what they were experiencing, as I've come to think that about other similarly subtle psychedelics as well.

Another thing I'll say, after reading your second DOiP report and then this you are making me highly interested in the idea of using these amphetamine psychedelics as workout supplements, or more specifically, just planning to have working out be a part of the trips I have on them. I believe it was in your DOiP report that you said you barely even felt what you were doing and partially because you just got absorbed into the TV in front of you.... I have a stationary exercise bike in my apartment with a TV in front of it that I love using like this and I recently realized that kratom makes me not feel the strain of it in the slightest and still feel all the good feelings of it afterwards nonetheless while also helping increase absorption, and while I don't have any interest in continuing to use kratom that way (and that's not why I was using it in the first place), it did make me realize how much I would like to have a substance or substances that facilitated that experience for me, especially ones that I could (theoretically) feel better about taking. I know you like using DOC for hiking too so I'm assuming you get a lot of use of this kind out of these amphetamines in general too.... I definitely think this could be a good way for me to get started being more actively physical by helping myself enjoy it more at these times to and do much appreciate the perspective.

It's too bad that your highest dosage was a bit more unpleasant, but it does sound like your lower dosages were plenty satisfying too, and not everything has to be a powerfully hallucinogenic and mind-blowing trip, sometimes you just want something that makes you feel good and refreshed. I'll be highly interested to see if the lower dosages keep up with the euphoric effects you experienced on them initially too even after you've kept at them for a while.... If it really does remain consistent in that way I certainly could see it being a worthwhile tool in the long run.

Thanks again.

 

[Pfafffed]

Great to hear from you, Kaleida! I've had Sunkist thoughts about channeling the energy from some of the DOx. I could see that working really well, especially with since of the shorter, stimmier ones.

I'm not sure about DOF, though eh. My one experience with it was less stimulating than DOC. Rather than being the generic stimulant that some suspected it to be, it was more dreamy and mildly psychedelic. It could be different at higher doses, but time will tell. I insufflated it, but there might be more somatic effects with an oral ROA

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks for the input. I used it a few more times at 8-12mg after this report was written, with more of the same. I think my most positive experience so far was my 12mg trial detailed in this report and my subsequent 12mg trial didn't quite measure up. I think it was mostly because of novelty, I was excited to be exploring this new thing and paying very close attention to the effects, and it was my first time taking it to what I now see as the full dosage level. And also because of phenibut, which has a substantially positive effect on all psychedelic combinations I've ever tried it with, to the point that I always prefer to use it with psychedelics, as it doesn't diminish them at all, but rather just primes you into feel more physically comfortable and more emotionally positive. It makes it much easier to roll with the punches and be open to what's happening. I can only rarely dose phenibut now though because I've used it too frequently too much in the past. It gives me a few days of withdrawal whenever I use it now, so I save it for rare occasions now where I deem that price worth it.

Anyway, the experience remained about the same in subsequent trials. I haven't really experimented with it anymore since this report, other than those few additional experiences. I think DOiP makes a superior workout aid as it is more stimulating, though the mental state is more serene with DOF and socializing is easier, and the duration is slightly more favorable.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I actually remember reading something where some guy was saying that since phenibut was a calcium channel blocker it would kind of diminish the psychedelia. Don't really know if it's true, and maybe I worded it wrongly, but it had something to do with calcium blocking.

 

[Kaleida]

Hey Pfafffed, it's nice to see you again too! ☺

How many of the DOx drugs have you used? I'm becoming more curious what the more subtle differences between them are, I have a good few in my possession but so far have only tried DOC and DOB. It's interesting that you describe DOF as more psychedelic than DOC, that's a perspective I wasn't expecting though it does make me even more intrigued in it. I don't necessarily need much of a stimulant push to work out at least a little bit, maybe in the later hours... but at the same time I could just see others being better for it. Sometimes a bad body load can be okay if it convinces you to get off your ass.... I'd like to try my exercise biking on DOB for that very reason, it had me tense but not so tense that I wasn't still enjoying myself even while just sitting around at home, so I think it might be nice for that kind of thing. DOC was more stimulating and tense for me and I feel like it might require me to be doing something more heavily active and outside to fully make the most of in that way.

Thanks for the updates too, Shadowmeister. I can definitely understand the lack of novelty diminishing it now, but at least some of the intensity still remained. Did you still find it worthwhile in those following experiences? It still sounds nice the way you put it, even if not so upfront with it. I appreciate the input on DOiP re: workout too! I am definitely interested in trying it with that one.

I've actually never tried phenibut, but isn't it a calcium channel blocker in the same way that gabapentin and pregabalin are? I wouldn't expect those to diminish psychedelia, actually quite the opposite, gabapentin at least already makes me hallucinate on its own.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I have absolutely no idea never combined either with a psychedelic. I was fainting in and out on not even a gram of phenibut, never again.

The Shulgin Index has entries on DOAM, DOB, DOBU, DOC, DOCN, DOET, DOF, DOI, DOIP, DOM, DON, DOPR, and DOTFM

OMG never heard about that index. If only he had finished the tryptamine one too... May he rest in peace
One day I'm paying some young, aspiring and perpetually curious chemist thousands of dollars to make these for all of us to enjoy

 

[Pfafffed]

It's interesting that you describe DOF as more psychedelic than DOC, that's a perspective I wasn't expecting though it does make me even more intrigued in it. I don't necessarily need much of a stimulant push to work out at least a little bit, maybe in the later hours... but at the same time I could just see others being better for it. Sometimes a bad body load can be okay if it convinces you to get off your ass.... I'd like to try my exercise biking on DOB for that very reason, it had me tense but not so tense that I wasn't still enjoying myself even while just sitting around at home, so I think it might be nice for that kind of thing. DOC was more stimulating and tense for me and I feel like it might require me to be doing something more heavily active and outside to fully make the most of in that way.

Oh wow, I didn't realize how my post read! I've gone back and edited it. My one experience with DOF was quite mild, as I wanted to dip my toes in slowly to this barely described material and titrate up after a few weeks of allowing my tolerance to reset. That was about a month ago, and it's looking like I won't have time to revisit it until late July at the earliest. It was most definitely not more psychedelic than DOC at the tiny dosage that I tried it at, but I was quite surprised that it was more psychedelic than it was stimulating.

How many of the DOx drugs have you used? I'm becoming more curious what the more subtle differences between them are, I have a good few in my possession but so far have only tried DOC and DOB.

Well, while I very much enjoy stimulants and psychedelics, I intensely dislike stimulation as a component of a psychedelic experience. With 2C-B, 2C-D, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-EPT, 5-MeO-MET, and even mescaline to an extent producing unenjoyable stimulation for me, I'm pretty wary of any psychedelic with amphetamine in the title, particularly if it also has a bromine or an iodine! I finally decided to explore DOC based on reports of it being fairly non-stimulating. At 1.5mg, that was true, but at 2.0mg I begin to experience some unpleasant energy. Fortunately, it's an energy that seems easier than many to channel into activity, so I have decided to explore some of the other DOx. I started with DOF, as it sounded approachable. Next will be DOPr, as it sounds like the least stimulating DOx, but also one of the deepest and most satisfying. DOM is on the list mostly as a benchmark for the class, although I'm wary of it's manic energy. DOiP is on the list, too. It sounds edgier in its stimulation, but also lighter in terms of headspace, so I hope it will be manageable. Based on the DOiP reports I've read, it sounds like it could be pretty great for exercise. If I come across DOET, I would like to test the waters with that one, but for some reason it intimidates me. I know that I shouldn't extrapolate from its structural similarity to 2C-E, but still...maybe its because of the Coil associations? ;-)

 

[Kaleida]

Doesn't sound fun, Buzz, that'd probably push me away too!

Haha, no worries, Pfafffed. I appreciate the update and that definitely does still sound interesting, I'll definitely look forward to what else you'll have to say as well when you do get around to it.

That's interesting that you dislike stimulation so much as part of your psychedelic experiences, do you mind if I ask what about it you don't like? It's really interesting to me that you find the energy of DOC easier to take than the others, too! Too each their own, obviously; for me DOC was definitely too tense for my liking with my one experience so far, though it's been years since then and I'd like to give it another chance, but I almost never find tryptamines or simple phenethylamines too bad. In any case, I'm glad it's worked out for you and will look forward to what more you have to say about this as well. I really would like to try channeling the psychedelic amphetamine energy into things too, it just sort of seems like something to do with that kind of trip I've had so far, but DOC more so than DOB I would say.

I definitely agree that DOPR sounds great, and I've got some of that sitting around too and look forward to using it soon enough. Same for DOiP, I'm especially excited for that now too after reading these reports. I so so wish I had DOM as it's on my psychedelic bucket list for multiple reasons including close personal ones but I sadly have not managed to acquire it yet.... At least for the moment I have the very close relative 4C-D to bring me some sentimental comfort. I'd love to hear what you have to say about it too if you do try it. And yeah, I'm intimidated by DOET after what Shadowmeister said, haha. I'd still try it... but I'm kind of a psychedelic masochist too, and it's just too tempting to pass up in this case.

I was not aware of this Coil association, but a quick web search makes me want to learn more lol.

 

[Xorkoth]

Did you still find it worthwhile in those following experiences?

Yes I did, I just found it less remarkable and more in the background, but I also was paying less attention to the effects, so that's probably why.

I've actually never tried phenibut, but isn't it a calcium channel blocker in the same way that gabapentin and pregabalin are? I wouldn't expect those to diminish psychedelia, actually quite the opposite, gabapentin at least already makes me hallucinate on its own.

Phenibut is a voltage-dependent calcium channel (VDCC) blocker like gabapentin and pregabalin, yes. It's also a potent GABA-B agonist so it's kind of like GHB also. I have always found it to not suppress any aspect of the psychedelic experience, it's one of the best things to combine with psychedelics.

If I come across DOET, I would like to test the waters with that one, but for some reason it intimidates me. I know that I shouldn't extrapolate from its structural similarity to 2C-E, but still...maybe its because of the Coil associations? ;-)

My report may have contributed. I am intimidated by it, too. My trip on it was weird, very subtle in some ways and strong in others. Not sure what exactly it was doing or why I was tripping but I was tripping fairly hard on 3.5mg. The bodyload was also kind of intense.

 

[JackARoe]

This as an awesome and incredibly thorough report, thanks so much for writing it! It is certainly incredibly meaningful to get this much information, even if from just one subject, on such an unbelievably obscure and underexplored but potentially interesting substance.

I agree, I spent the day working from home (software developer) and also took breaks to read a lot of trip reports today. I see people like Shadow that say DOC is a wonderful psychedelic and it makes me want to give it a shot. My only issue is I am not as young anymore. The longest trips I can take are cactus. But I would make time for a try with DOC, maybe take it at 6:00AM, make sure I feel healthy and plan to stay up all night till 6:00AM the next morning.

I actually pulled out my copy of TIHKAL (hey I have a first edition but it is in pieces) and read about some of the DO*'s. And the way Shadow writes makes me want to try DOF now too. lol A lot of good info and responses here.

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks. Good luck finding DOF, I got super lucky when I found it. It's nice, but probably isn't going to be a full-spectrum psychedelic at any dose. DOC, on the other hand, is full-on, beautiful visuals, great headspace, introspection, euphoria, with the added bonus of being quite pro-social and easy to be around people and feel confident in your own self and space. It's one of the great ones.

Your timeline sounds good, DOC keeps me up about that long, maybe a little less. As I've gotten older it's taken longer and longer to drop off enough for me to sleep. As long as you dose with thought to the duration, and have stuff to do, you'll be good. Myself and many others find it's not a drug to sit around the house with, especially on the come-up. I find the come-up disorienting and intense and restless if I am not out hiking, or at least taking a walk, or doing something physical, etc. If you're active the energy it provides is channeled into a great, enabling feeling, but if you're not active it manifests as watery eyes, stretching, lots of restless limb energy, and general confusion/listlessness.

 

[Pfafffed]

I'm lucky in that I'm on the 12hr end of the 12-24hr spectrum with DOC (at 2mg.) 1.5mg lasted about 8hrs. This doesn't seem to be typical, but then again most reports I've read in DOC are 3mg+.

I'm fact, my mescaline experiences have almost all been longer than my DOC experiences. Nonetheless, plan for a long ride.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow you are lucky. I take 750-1000ug (micrograms just to be clear) of DOC when I make the 13 hour road trip to visit my parents... it's sub-trip, it just gives me focus and a total inability to get fatigued. Anyway I'l take it at 5am and still not be able to sleep until 3am (22 hours later). From that tiny of a dose.

However it's worth noting that the older I get, the harder it is to sleep in general. And also all drugs seem to last longer than they used to. Generally insomnia after psychedelics lasts longer than any trace of the effects for me.

 

[Pfafffed]

That's interesting that you dislike stimulation so much as part of your psychedelic experiences, do you mind if I ask what about it you don't like? It's really interesting to me that you find the energy of DOC easier to take than the others, too! Too each their own, obviously; for me DOC was definitely too tense for my liking with my one experience so far, though it's been years since then and I'd like to give it another chance, but I almost never find tryptamines or simple phenethylamines too bad.

I think it's double faceted. For one, when I'm dissolving my reality in an ontological solvent, I want to the subsequent process of painstaking reconstruction to be careful and methodical. I don't want to jump to conclusions, and stimulants can incline me towards doing that.

Second, anxiety is a foreign emotion to my sober self. I also love stimulants, but with the exception of caffeine, I'm sensitive to them and use them at really modest levels. When I experience stimulation while in a psychedelic headspace, however, I almost always interpret it as anxiety, which is a really drag.