Does kratom raise your opiate tolerance up much ?

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^I messed that one up, I meant to say "more sedation than stimulation"

Good catch Pegasus

 

[Korn3x]

^^
lol no worries. the average browser would be able to infer what you really meant to say. just a freudian slip.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Most info on the internets says that lower doses of kratom (as in <10g) will offer a caffeine-like stimulation, while in higher doses, it starts to get sedating. I'll have to agree for the most part. I think the stimulation is much cleaner than caffeine and maybe even a little stronger, but not quite as pushy/jittery as amphetamine.

In ~10g doses, I find there to be a good balance between stimulation and euphoria. In even lower doses, the euphoria is still there but less pronounced. In higher doses the euphoria can get intense, however it usually comes with a heavy body load, nausea, dizziness and sedation.

Also, 400mg cimetidine is an absolute must. Kratom is no where near as enjoyable unless you take 2 Tagamet pills about ~45 minutes before you ingest your kratom. I have enough experience with using cimetidine with pod tea and kratom by this point to confirm it 100% definitely improves the experience significantly. I feel that without it, most of the kratom goes to your body, resulting in more physical sedation, less euphoria, nausea, etc.. With the inhibition from the Tagamet, most of the good alkaloids go to your brain instead, resulting in much more euphoria, stimulation and mental effects, not to mention far less nausea and body load.

 

[regfairfield]

no...i still do the same amt of oxy after using kratom for months...dont listen to the copy and pasters...listen to the people who enjoy it

 

[Nib]

Yes it most definitely does. I have been on Kratom/Off strong opiates(mostly) for a few years and my tolerance to Oxy is still 200+mg

 

[jammy_wankz]

Ok I will post my experience as I have tried Kratom for the first time in my life, today.

I ordered leaf and powdered leaf of Kratom (Indo and Thai). I heard Bali sucks from some reviews off another Kratom discussion forum.

So this website I ordered from offers US Postal service shipping. I received my package today (On a Friday, how awesome )

Anyways, I boiled and simmered about 2 onces of leaf in 1.5L of water for 15 minutes. I drank the first cup with some honey, and about 25 mins later I felt a buzz way stronger than any amount of vicodin I've taken. In fact, since my tolerance is so low now, it was comparable to oxycontin. It was a GOOD buzz, almost like fucking opiates man! The only thing that was "missing" from the pill experience was the warm feeling in my stomach. But I haven't done opiates in a long ass time, so I know I was catching a nice feeling anyways. I passed the fuck out for a couple hours at least, woke up, and took another 2 hour rest as I wanted to fully come down before consuming more. This time I drank about a cup and a half, maybe even two cups (since my memory is kinda cloudy). I tried to up the dosage this time and I ended up with mild nausea, then it peaked to some pretty bad nausea and I puked in the toilet just one gag reflex. A little stuff came out but it wasn't nearly as bad as a heroin puke (I throw up several times if I over do H with a low tolerance). Anyways that was all there was to it, just puked a little bit. I didn't expect this from a tea!

I am well aware that Kratom can be physically addictive, especially if you fuck w/ the extracts. Also, its slightly harder to get hooked on Kratom, IMO, because you have to spend some time to boil the tea, then drink a full cup of some bitter ass shit. Most stupid fucks don't have the discipline to boil leaves for 15 minutes and pound some bitter tasting stuff. This is what you must overcome every time you want to enjoy it, thus probably lowing your chances of a daily habit.

I would let one of my H addicted friends to try this to get off of H, but I know his dumbass is gonna say that "Kratom sucks and I didn't feel shit" ... well... so does a daily H habit that puts you through W/D...

I'm glad I never looked into Kratom sooner, as I would have probably done some stupid experimentation, like oxycontin and kratom at the same time, then puking my balls off, and raising my tolerance once more. They say Kratom is an Opioid, not an opiate, but nevermind that. This shit is stronger than vicodin, and you can hit w/d off just kratom alone, so I would definitely say it will raise your tolerance to pills.

 

[Woodsong]

I got curious about kratom about a year ago, so I picked up a pack of 3g 15x extract from an undisclosed local head shop branch. Tried mixing with water, Sprite ... bad idea. The best way I've found to consume raw powder is to mix it into one of those drinkable yogurt things, hold your nose and try not to let any get between your gums... Anyway...

My first time doing it was comparable to about 20mg of hydro with no tolerance. I was rolling around on my bed giggling and feeling generally warm and fuzzy for quite a while, but never got the same experience again, even though I kept doing it on and off for quite a while.

I started having some back problems recently, which my doctor has been more than happy to supply me with either 7.5 Lorcets or 10mg Norcos if I play my cards right. I used to be sent into the fucking atmosphere on as little as 10mg of hydro, but after messing around with kratom for a while, I was needing at least 60mg to even get a halfway decent buzz. Kratom doesn't do shit anymore except make me a little jittery.

I've even found that when I take kratom while already under the influence of, say, pod tea, it seems like the kratom cancels out the real opiate buzz with a shitty kratom one... So I guess it's possible that kratom also has antagonistic properties..? Who knows, but kratom has most definitely fucked up my tolerance all around... Which sucks. I'd say just stay away from the shit completely if you can get your hands on better stuff. :/

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I got curious about kratom about a year ago, so I picked up a pack of 3g 15x extract from an undisclosed local head shop branch. Tried mixing with water, Sprite ... bad idea. The best way I've found to consume raw powder is to mix it into one of those drinkable yogurt things, hold your nose and try not to let any get between your gums... Anyway...

My first time doing it was comparable to about 20mg of hydro with no tolerance. I was rolling around on my bed giggling and feeling generally warm and fuzzy for quite a while, but never got the same experience again, even though I kept doing it on and off for quite a while.

I started having some back problems recently, which my doctor has been more than happy to supply me with either 7.5 Lorcets or 10mg Norcos if I play my cards right. I used to be sent into the fucking atmosphere on as little as 10mg of hydro, but after messing around with kratom for a while, I was needing at least 60mg to even get a halfway decent buzz. Kratom doesn't do shit anymore except make me a little jittery.

I've even found that when I take kratom while already under the influence of, say, pod tea, it seems like the kratom cancels out the real opiate buzz with a shitty kratom one... So I guess it's possible that kratom also has antagonistic properties..? Who knows, but kratom has most definitely fucked up my tolerance all around... Which sucks. I'd say just stay away from the shit completely if you can get your hands on better stuff. :/

I didn't think kratom has antagonistic properties at the opioid site, although there isn't a lot known about how kratom works exactly so who knows.

I do know that the even slight stimulation effect kratom has may be cancelling out the hydrocodone feelings, or the different effects profile kratom has is just stronger than the hydrocodone which may be fading into the background.

 

[hdth]

Yes it most definitely does. I have been on Kratom/Off strong opiates(mostly) for a few years and my tolerance to Oxy is still 200+mg

thats a bitch of a tolerance

 

[LokitriX]

What in the actual!!? this is the first time I hear kratom messes up your opiate tolerance! Here is my situation. I was taking 2-4mg bupe almost everyday for almost 10 years. Was impossible to get of until i found kratom. Now I have been taking kratom everyday for exactly one year without touching bupe once. well, until a like a month ago when something happened with my stomach that made me puke my guts out everytime i touched kratom. So back to bupe it was. Now I have been takin bupe AND kratom for like a month as a result. I have always prefered heroin and oxycontin but because of the bupe those have not been an option. last year I bough 4 oxy 80's, snorted and popped all of them over the course of like 12 hours and barely got buzzed. I thought there was something wrong with me (the oxys where pharmacy stuff so they were not fake) but now I know (guess?) that it was because i was taking kratom at the same time? I thought Kratom was related to the coffee plant and had nothing to do with the opiate receptors, kinda like tramadol binds to the seratonin receptors but produces an opiate high.

NOW. I have not taken any bupe for 2 days but have been taking kratom as usual for like a week now that the stomach problems are gone (i hope). And I bought 1g of heroin that i planned on using in about 3-4 days. Am I fucked? will i not get the full effect of the H even if i stop using kratom for 3-4 days from now? remember ive been on kratom for a full year. How long should I wait before using the H ?

Also. Ive read that NMDA-antagonists like Ketamine and Agmatine "resets" your receptors and brings your tolerance down. would a Agmatine cycle and some ketamine sessions bring my opiate tolerance back to a reasonable state?

 

[plumbus-nine]

For tolerance reduction you need a steady effect for as long as possible, ketamine isn't ideal here and single use only reduced tolerance a little while memantine, with its absence of psychotomimetic effects, allowed me to cease opioids painlessly at 60-80mg/d (I have toletance to it bit they used 60mg acute dose in studies). The longer lasting RC derivates like deschloroketamine should work better and are mostly legal for "non human use".

I have a weird problem though, even when not having or having had any withdrawal to speak of after 3 years of morphine maintenance thanks to memantine, so stopped kratom, pure or extract, to exhibit any noticeable effects. I tried just this morning 10g of maeng da green and some grams of 20x added but nothing besides a very slight feeling of that something psychoactive entered my system. Is it normal to keep high tolerance months after ceasing use?

 

[LokitriX]

For tolerance reduction you need a steady effect for as long as possible, ketamine isn't ideal here and single use only reduced tolerance a little while memantine, with its absence of psychotomimetic effects, allowed me to cease opioids painlessly at 60-80mg/d (I have toletance to it bit they used 60mg acute dose in studies). The longer lasting RC derivates like deschloroketamine should work better and are mostly legal for "non human use".

I have a weird problem though, even when not having or having had any withdrawal to speak of after 3 years of morphine maintenance thanks to memantine, so stopped kratom, pure or extract, to exhibit any noticeable effects. I tried just this morning 10g of maeng da green and some grams of 20x added but nothing besides a very slight feeling of that something psychoactive entered my system. Is it normal to keep high tolerance months after ceasing use?

memantine is a prescription drug tho ( in sweden at least ) I cant exactly tell the doc "hey I cant get high anymore, can u give me some memantine?" its prescribed for dementia or something right? what would be the best thing to tell the doc in order to get it prescribed?). Also, is Agmatine worthless in my case? Agmatine I can buy at any health store but will it help? how much and for how long should i take Agmatine if it actually works.
And another question. I have acquired 1g of R-isomer ketamine and 1g of S-isomer ketamine. which one is better regarding lowering opiate tolerance? Should I take some K and H at the same time or wait until the K wears of before doing the H?
thx for response btw. PEace

 

[plumbus-nine]

Yeah, memantine unfortunately is prescription only in most countries ... I had luck once, a doc to whom I could talk honestly and he prescribed me the memantine and now in Mexico its w/o prescription ... maybe, if you have an open minded doc, show him the relevant papers from PubMed. Or online pharmacies, I don't know whether in Sweden it's legal to import medicine..

Agmatine - I read that it has bad bioavailability and doesn't do much but trying won't hurt I guess.

Oh, the K isomers - I'm still wondering which one is better, but from what I know I'd say the S-isomer is what you want, it should be more dissociative while the R isomer is more psychedelic but K is a mystery somehow, once you get a good batch which is nice fluffy psychedelic and then another batch which is strongly dissociative..

 

[LokitriX]

Im pretty sure i gave a trip report somewhere on this but, maybe its on another forum or on a txt file somewhere. anyways. I started doing the K (I dont remember if it was the K-isos or the S-isos but i experimented a little bit with both of them) and as I was still (kinda) under the influence of the K-isos when I proceeded to doing the S-isos I could not rly tell the difference. All I know is is after experimenting with the K for like 3 days straight i proceeded to snort some lines of H and chase that Charizard a bit aaaand. hot damn was it like the first time i ever did H in my life. 1g of some really good H lasted for (I think) 3.5 days or something. I tried doing a little H and alot of K, then alot of H and a little K and all the combos inbetween. It was wonderful. At one point I did a heroic line of K (I believe pregabalin was present at the party aswell). And i was traveling through different timelines, lifes, other peoples experiences etc. So since this magic (week?) ive been giving my brain some rest and just done subutex in the fear of kratom fuckin up my H tolerance. Maybe kratom only messes with semi-synthetic painkillers like oxy, kodein etc? (The H im using has no fent in it because that would just be a waste of money for a dealer in my country, RC opiates are hard to come by and when u they come around they dont sell for cheap)

Anyway Ive been trying to keep the bupe to a minimal. except like the last 2 days when I was craving that nod ( and succeeded with the help of from some bensos, alcohol and pregabalin ) .. DONT do that at home kids. my tolerance comes from a soon to be 15 yr old addiction to.. everything and in the very near future ima get a hold of that same K and the same H as last time. Ill probly wont last long just sitting there there looking at the H so the whole "Ketamine receptor reset" thing will rly be put to the test. since ive been doing quite alot of bupe this month..

I will keep yall posted. Over and Out

 

[plumbus-nine]

@LokitriX One dose of ket or a few aren't enough to reset year long opioid tolerance unfortunately and imo. I needed multiple megadoses of memantine (half life: ~72h) to restore my receptors from 120mg morphine, but I have huge tolerance to dissoz and this influences also other drugs but other story, will ask in NSPD. So one K trip isn't enough. I wonder though which difference threshold dosages to hole ones have. Dissoz help against nearly everything, SSRI, Alcohol comedown, Benzo tolerance down etc. but they aren't magic. I wonder also whether it's just a biochemical interaction as PubMed writes or if these changes are the result of a state in which the brain is asleep but very active - unbound from the body and maybe some subsystems can use this state for repair. Afaik is it not clear for what reason we are able to dissociate, some say in moments of big stress, I dunno because that's more a kappa opioid thing..

But I love to hear how it works for you!

 

[Stayfloating]

I think so, yeah, however the availability of pods is pretty much nil unless you grow them yourself or know a grower. Internet supply has completely dried up and no one seems to know why. I'm guessing the law caught up. 8)

It's both a blessing and a curse. It's a curse for obvious reasons, I mean c'mon, for about the street price of one vike/perc you were once able to have a FAR more intense high that literally does last about 24 hours, and you could obtain it legally, in the mail to your door step, and even consume it inconspicuously at home, on the street, at work, etc.. Amazing right? Yeah, so this stuff was addicting in so many more ways than one. It's a blessing that it went away because you bet your ass I'd probably be on it right now...and I'm glad that I'm not because I certainly was full-blown addicted to this stuff at one point.

It would be cool if it was one of those seasonal things, that for example only came around in the summer months, that way, I'd be forced to put it down from time to time. Even kratom is way too easy to obtain, but at least it isn't nearly as addicting as pods.

It’s not a blessing. Some people actually take this stuff because they are in pain.

 

[LokitriX]

@LokitriX One dose of ket or a few aren't enough to reset year long opioid tolerance unfortunately and imo. I needed multiple megadoses of memantine (half life: ~72h) to restore my receptors from 120mg morphine, but I have huge tolerance to dissoz and this influences also other drugs but other story, will ask in NSPD. So one K trip isn't enough. I wonder though which difference threshold dosages to hole ones have. Dissoz help against nearly everything, SSRI, Alcohol comedown, Benzo tolerance down etc. but they aren't magic. I wonder also whether it's just a biochemical interaction as PubMed writes or if these changes are the result of a state in which the brain is asleep but very active - unbound from the body and maybe some subsystems can use this state for repair. Afaik is it not clear for what reason we are able to dissociate, some say in moments of big stress, I dunno because that's more a kappa opioid thing..

But I love to hear how it works for you!

Well, over a year later I can say that it didnt work (I think). looking back I should have tried micro-dosing the K for a while but my addict brain wants to party so. yeah.

some weird things though.

This probably deserves a separate post, maybe I'll mention this in the Ketamine section later but here it is for now.

My Ketamine experience:

I have done ALL the drugs. Little over a year ago though I for some reason havent tried K yet, so I decided to do it (see my earlier post for details)

The first 3-4 times where SO wonderful. I have heard some people sometimes can have bad experiences with K, like a bad acid or mushroom trip. I dont understand how that is possible. On me it works like psychedelic heroin, total bliss, my GAD literally floats away from my chest and I feel totally anxiety free which I haven't felt on ANY drug before (except when I took my first Valium at 14 yrs old)

Ive had DMT like experiences but with 100x the euphoria, zero body load.

Then it stopped working. I could do half a gram in 2-3h and just felt a minor, "floaty" feeling. I assumed it was tolerance and stopped doing it. basically forgot it existed for maybe 3-4 months.
Then one day I was invited to chill and do shrooms a whole weekend with some friends. "shrooms+Ketamine+Lyrica+flower! I responded". I bough 2g K from the same source as before. the weekend was 3 days away and my addict brain told me to at least try out the K before the weekend. To my enormous disappointment I only felt that same floaty feeling as i did when I last did k 4 months before. I assumed I got some weak ass K but still brought it with me to the "party" 3 days later.

I arrived at my friends house and only one other person had arrived, we were waiting for the others and got a little bored. So we decided to do some K while we wait. THE SAME BAG OF K that I assumed was bunk. I told my friends it was weak as fuck and crushed up 3 big ass lines. My friends refused (as one should) to do that much and turned my 3 lines into like, 8 lines.

So we all did a standard amount at the same time and HOLY shit. when it hit my friend didnt even got to saying "this is the best K Ive eve...." Boom, we were crawling on the floor laughing, we had to CRAWL up the stairs and create a system of 3 people to transport 3 glasses of water down the stairs.
In other words, the K was not bunk.

I experienced this phenomenon several times over this year. When I was alone Ketamine had basically zero effect on me. It ONLY had an effect when I did with other people, very strange.

Today, no matter if I am with people or not. I am pretty much immune to ketamine. I can bring a bag to a party that FLOORS everyone but not me, even if Ive had a 2 month break.

Ive had some nice experiences when mixing it with amphetime+pregabalin+opiates but nothing like the first times.

Over the around 16 months since I did K the first time I have "done it" maybe 6-7 times. by "done it" I mean I have bought 2-3g and done it all over a 1-3 week period. I have read K can fukk up your bladder and of course since I saw that vice documentary I have been feeling a pain in my bladder/urinary tract system. Its probably just imagination or something else (I've put HG's of pregabalin through my system over the years) but I have put the K on hold for now.

Has anyone else experienced the same thing as me? that K only works when done with other people?
Is it normal that the magic stops after a few trips? I have seriously considered doing it IM at some times. Its impossible to enter the k-hole via the nasal route atm.

 

[MuertaMan]

It would make sense that it raises tolerance those extracts will make opiate withdrawal go away for a couple hours so they might as well be an opiate IME.

 

[MuertaMan]

It’s not a blessing. Some people actually take this stuff because they are in pain.

Amen pods helped my fibro and auto immune disease so much I actually was able to hold down a hard labor job even with my pain and now that they are gone I feel worthless again. Subutex gabapentin and weed combined helps the pain a little but nothing like pods did. I miss them no pills have ever helped like the natural alkaloid mixture in pods.