Does anyone else pefer synthetic cannabanoids to normal cannabis

[TimTim1993]

I must say some of you were very responsible only smoking specific synthetics. I used to smoke random blends of K2 not knowing which chemicals I was smoking and I had a lot of wild and nasty experiences with them like being so high to the point I was laying on the sidewalk immobilized and tripping out, blacking out, and vomiting on myself. It put me in the ER four times. Looking back I wish I was more cautious because not even PCP would make me freak like certain kinds of K2.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I must say some of you were very responsible only smoking specific synthetics. I used to smoke random blends of K2 not knowing which chemicals I was smoking and I had a lot of wild and nasty experiences with them like being so high to the point I was laying on the sidewalk immobilized and tripping out, blacking out, and vomiting on myself. It put me in the ER four times. Looking back I wish I was more cautious because not even PCP would make me freak like certain kinds of K2.

I must have interpreted about 200 NMR/GC-MS profiles of the synthetics.

About 70% contained dimers, trimers and polymers. Too heavy to vaporize so they would be pyrolyzed. So I don't touch them.

It's quite crazy to see fragments with MWs of 800-900 and try to figure out WHAT is in them. I guess the makers skimped on solvent volume and purification to keep costs down. As long as it was a white powder.. that was enough.

I predict a lung cancer spike associated with the use of synthetic CB ligands.

 

[Dead Machination]

I must have interpreted about 200 NMR/GC-MS profiles of the synthetics.

About 70% contained dimers, trimers and polymers. Too heavy to vaporize so they would be pyrolyzed. So I don't touch them.

It's quite crazy to see fragments with MWs of 800-900 and try to figure out WHAT is in them. I guess the makers skimped on solvent volume and purification to keep costs down. As long as it was a white powder.. that was enough.

I predict a lung cancer spike associated with the use of synthetic CB ligands.

I was locked up with the dude who got caught in the "hay day" of gas station spice, he had an entire bathtub full of inert smokable plant material (he said it was mostly sage, with a small amount of tobacco), and he would spray (at that time) ABFUBINACA (excuse the butchered spelling), with a spray bottle from Lowe's and mix it up by hand in the bathtub. I can't imagine that it was distributed evenly over that material at all.

Crazy end to that story, they only found a few grams of the pure RC, but charged him with possession of hundreds of pounds of synthetic cannabinoids because of the sprayed bathtub. They made an example of him in multiple states, and I think he's still doing time 10 years later.

 

[ghostfreak]

I used to prefer it as I got it for a good price in the legal high days in the UK. Usually AM-2201 or AKB48 which was my favourite.

 

[AlsoTapered]

ABFUBINACA (excuse the butchered spelling),

No, no. It's AB FUBINACA (N-[(2S)-1-Amino-3-methyl-1-oxobutan-2-yl]-1-[(4-fluorophenyl)methyl]indazole-3-carboxamide). Your spelling is quite correct.

But note the highlighted bit of the IUPAC name? Well on no occasion did I come across an X-ray crystallography result that was the (2S) and it was the Chinese themselves who provided the data! It was a racemate i.e. a 50-50 mix of the (2S) and (2R). In simple terms, half of the material was a different shape and I don't know if the (2R) is active or safe or anything.

I'm presuming that someone who uses a bath to produce a product for human consumption would know that. I mean, only know because I had our instrumentation data provider conduct polarimetry. Of course, I didn't know how much rotation to expect, but any non-zero result would show that the compound was chiral. I'm presuming pure (2R) would be as hard to make as pure (2S).

OK, rotation would only that their was an enantiomeric excess, not necessarily 100% but zero rotation shows it was the racemate.

Sorry for all the jargon. I'm just pointing out that the QC for that class of RC was VERY poor. If they ended up with a white powder that was proven to be psychoactive, that was sufficient.

I'm not telling people how to live their life, but just to ensure decisions are informed (to the best of my ability).

I wonder if his defence team noted that detail. But if it's the mass of product, I guess it doesn't matter.

10 years for a non-violent offence. Madness. Casey Hardison served 13 years and 8 months for producing LSD. The idiot based his defence on 'cognitive liberty' which simply wound up the judge. He insisted on conducting his own defence which wound up both the prosecution and the judge. So he got the maximum sentence.

 

[Dead Machination]

No, no. It's AB FUBINACA (N-[(2S)-1-Amino-3-methyl-1-oxobutan-2-yl]-1-[(4-fluorophenyl)methyl]indazole-3-carboxamide). Your spelling is quite correct.

But note the highlighted bit of the IUPAC name? Well on no occasion did I come across an X-ray crystallography result that was the (2S) and it was the Chinese themselves who provided the data! It was a racemate i.e. a 50-50 mix of the (2S) and (2R). In simple terms, half of the material was a different shape and I don't know if the (2R) is active or safe or anything.

I'm presuming that someone who uses a bath to produce a product for human consumption would know that. I mean, only know because I had our instrumentation data provider conduct polarimetry. Of course, I didn't know how much rotation to expect, but any non-zero result would show that the compound was chiral. I'm presuming pure (2R) would be as hard to make as pure (2S).

OK, rotation would only that their was an enantiomeric excess, not necessarily 100% but zero rotation shows it was the racemate.

Sorry for all the jargon. I'm just pointing out that the QC for that class of RC was VERY poor. If they ended up with a white powder that was proven to be psychoactive, that was sufficient.

No, I appreciate it, I live to learn. Other than synthetic cannabinoids in the early 2010s, I know very little.

I'm not telling people how to live their life, but just to ensure decisions are informed (to the best of my ability).

I wonder if his defence team noted that detail. But if it's the mass of product, I guess it doesn't matter.

They did, sort of. There was an issue they were having with prosecution for the analog act, because what he had, at that time, wasn't considered an illegal substance unless it was for human consumption. The substance they found was considered different enough that it wasn't chemically related to a scheduled substance enough to fall under the analog act in that way. They got him with the "for human consumption" packaging and labeling (he was the guy packaging and selling large scale spice packages to gas stations and such), the actual product itself was completely irrelevant. He ended up beating a lot of the charges because they weren't able to get him with the analog act. The federal government literally hired a team of scientists to try and prove that that chemical acted in a similar manner to a scheduled narcotic, but because the drug was so new, and untested, they were unable to do so. They ended up proving that it was an analog of an analog, which held up in some courts but not others. (He had cases in many different states).

10 years for a non-violent offence. Madness. Casey Hardison served 13 years and 8 months for producing LSD. The idiot based his defence on 'cognitive liberty' which simply wound up the judge. He insisted on conducting his own defence which wound up both the prosecution and the judge. So he got the maximum sentence.

I think the dude got like 50 or 60 years total (it was a bunch of different sentences to be run consecutively and different states, as well as a federal sentence) He was in his '40s too, it's a death sentence.

I bet you if weed was legal in his jurisdictions, this entire event would not have happened. I'm convinced the only reason that synthetic cannabinoids like spice exist are because of drug testing and the illegality of cannabis in the first place. He was a good dude too, he had a wife and a few kids, is a good father, I talked to him a lot, and got to know him, probably one of the few people that I met in jail that I would actually trust.

Gone forever because of sage in a bathtub and a thumb sized baggie of (legal) powder.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Lack of compartmentation.

Plus I suspect that they knew and had known for some time so he was the example.

In this town one guy is buying synthetic CB ligands and making 'Spice' although I'm pretty confident that the teenagers selling the stuff don't even know who it is.

Sure a middleman wants a cut - but compartmentation is worth it.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

The only cannabis I've used before is Marijuana and Hash. I've never used synthetic cannabinoids before, but HU-210 has sparked my interest.

 

[TimTim1993]

The only cannabis I've used before is Marijuana and Hash. I've never used synthetic cannabinoids before, but HU-210 has sparked my interest.

Your better off with Cannabis and Hash, synthetics can be real intense and nasty if you get the wrong ones. But if you know for a fact which chemical you are using you should be good

 

[crazyhairman]

I much prefer delta8 and other hemp derived products. Delta8 is slightly less psychoactive in lower doses. It's more of a consistent chill feeling.

I smoked marijuana for 15 years and stopped enjoying it because of anxiety. I know I'm not the only one. Delta8 gave me the ability to enjoy the weed feeling again. Which is a bit ironic given the fact that if marijuana had been legal in my state Delta 8 would probably be criminalized.

I don't smoke it or vape it. I use these liquid drops that are so concentrated each drop is 17 mg of Delta8. A normal dose is 20 to 30 mgs. I accidentally dosed myself at 150 mg. And I thought I was tripping on mushrooms for a second. So it can be extremely psychoactive at high doses so watch out for that.

I find it both troubling and interesting that all the states just about that have a thriving legal marijuana industry decided to ban all Delta 8 products. This band is not based on anything scientific. The fact that Delta 8 exists in small amounts in marijuana or hemp already doesn't make sense to ban it outright.

Why are synthetics held in such a bad light. Think of any pain medicine you've ever taken it's a synthetic derivative of a poppy.

Anyway to each his own I guess but I found that Delta 8 is absolutely my jam. Now if they could just agree to regulate it like everything else everybody would be safer thank you for your time My name is crazy hair man and I approve this message

 

[crazyhairman]

I've been taking Delta 8 for almost 2 years and I don't have a huge tolerance. A huge dose for me is 75 mg. I think that has more to do with the type of people your friends are. I've always tried to keep my tolerance low on anything.

What I'll do is I'll take a little bit Delta 9 a little bit CBD and call it a night then 3 days later I'll take a little bit of Delta 8 go right to bed just fine.

The next day with dinner I might take a little Delta 8 play some video games with the boys eat everything in the fridge and then call it a night.

I wouldn't want to take a large amount of Delta 8 that stuff is scary and high doses just like if you took a huge amount of Delta 9 it's not a lot of fun.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Δ8 THC seems milder and I have only ever enjoyed very mild intoxication. Back in the 80s my favoured smoke was Thai, or at least what was being sold as Thai. It was something that made other things more enjoyable. I'm just not interested in getting so stoned I cannot carry on with my day.

When I moved to Amsterdam I stopped smoking weed entirely. Even the few occasions where I was in a coffee-shop - hot Chocomel was the only thing I imbibed.

Of course, I've only tried Δ8 a few times, always as edibles. So I don't know the dose beyond what people told me. If a cake was supposed to be one unit (and some people ate several), I would have half of one cake.

Although it seemed more benign, we simply don't have enough data to really understand if it merely has lower affinity or if it's a partial agonist or low-efficacy ligand (I don't know if either of those terms is actually appropriate).

But I am acutely aware that anxiety and CB1 ligands can result in very bad experiences and that cannabis is strongly associated with certain mental illnesses. Yes, I'm sure people will pile in and point out that so do many other drugs BUT since it's becoming legal or at least decriminalized, people might presume that it's far safer (from a mental health perspective) than 'hard' drugs but some large studies suggest cannabis is still a risk.

So maybe Δ8 is safer? I don't think anybody knows,

 

[polarthedog]

for like 2 years ounces of hash were cheaper than oz's of weed and looking back I bet that was a synthetic on some nonsense. Only way it makes sense. (before MI legalized)

JWH is bad news and dark water. You don't wanna blow your cannabinoid receptors out. That would be the worst thing ever.. loll

Strangely, after three months of abusing k2, I was in withdrawal from it, and I smoked some dank, it was like I had had a huge tolerance break, and I’d literally smoked k2 the day before. So it may not be that simple

 

[AlsoTapered]

JWH is bad news and dark water. You don't wanna blow your cannabinoid receptors out. That would be the worst thing ever.. loll

JWH just stands for John W. Huffman, the researcher. Some compounds are similar to the natural compounds found in cannabis, some are utterly different.

Or did only one or two reach the market?

 

[Jibult]

man... i hit a k2 blend once, that shit left me feelin' like