psychedelicious
Bluelighter
Fantastic report. Thanks for posting.
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Trip Reports Moderator: M!$ter-ED
DOB - Inexperienced - scarred
- Thread starter Aidan of TCC
- Start date
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
zophen said:
The last time I had a trip even remotely comparable was when I dropped 3 hits from an amazing vial on my tongue followed by 1 drop in the eye (that's quite an experience I might add), followed by 3 drops on the tongue from a different vial entirely, followed by slicing open both vials with scissors and sucking on 1/2 of one vial and 1/2 of the other (both visibly crusty with tiny crystals from dried liquid around the top and still coated with liquid in the middle).
So 7 hits + 2 halves of different empty vials. My girlfriend matched me as well. One of those vials (4 hits + half the empty vial) was so strong that 1/2 a hit was enough for a lot of people to have a good trip.
On a scale of "1 to fuck", this trip (3 hits of blotter I found under my desk) being "fuck", I'd rate that experience a 7.
zophen said:
When I write a trip report, I take myself back to the state of mind I was in at the time...the opinions expressed may or may not reflect my sober world-view. That said I am very much a control freak and that feeling was likely a projection of my personal fear of losing control so totally for such a long period of time.
zophen said:
I'm very much a dualist, I agree entirely in the sense that for every valid perspective there is a complementary perspective with equal validity. For instance, a monist would argue that reality is composed of only one fundamental material, whereas I would argue that for every facet of reality there exists a complement, and that reality is fundamentally composed of two equal-but-opposite (i.e. positive/negative charge) materials.
However, I'd also argue that because no complement can exist independently, (How would we define "negative charge" if there existed no complementary "positive charge" to relate it to?) one could just as easily think of reality in terms of a single unified system comprised of two complementary forces.
Monism, dualism...it's all a matter of perspective. I've come to believe that if my conceptualization of reality cannot be expressed as two equally valid but opposing points of view, then it must not be valid.
zophen said:
I believe I know exactly what you're referring to, but this was a different sensation entirely. I'm not positive but I think it was my other long-duration ego-loss level LSD trip that gave me the permanent perspective you're referring to. Since then I see everything as a system...a complex, emergent, self-organizing system.
This experience, on the other hand, was purely dissociative--depersonalization disorder, only drug induced. I felt as if my mind was that of God and everything about my former identity belonged to someone else. I remember feeling indifferent awareness that the corporeal vessel my mind inhabited was feeble and impermanent. I knew "he" ("he" in this instance meaning the person that I am now) would live and die in what, from my omniscient perspective, was a figurative blink of an eye. I wasn't sad, it was just a fact. If I felt anything it was pity for "him", but only in passing.
I think the DSM-IV describes the feeling well,
" 1. Persistent, recurring feeling of being detached from one’s mental processes or body; as if an observer
2. During depersonalization, reality testing is intact
..."
I'm extremely sensitive to disassociative anesthetics, which are the normal psychoactive means of achieving depersonalization, and surprise surprise, LSD inhibits NMDA activity ***(disassociative anesthetics are NMDA antagonists). I'm a bit depersonalized when I'm sober, it's not surprising that the effects were significant for me.
zophen said:Yeah of course it can ~ I think it a shame you took the anti-psychotics because i was interested in what was coming next !![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Never mind one does what one can for the best at the time !
After handling what must have been 15 hits of strong liquid without much difficulty, I wasn't afraid of 3 hits I found on the floor. My bad, apparently
.Keep in mind that I wrote this a full week after the trip....I've never waited so long to write a trip report, usually they come the next day. It took me a full week to wrap my mind around the smallest fraction of the experience well enough to communicate it to anyone else in a meaningful way.
Make no mistake, those were 10 of the most horrifying hours of my life. I was completely alone for 8 hours, blacking out periodically and coming to in a different room of my house, confused as to where I was or how I got there. I was stuck in a thought loop for hours once the ego loss subsided. The Price is Right was on TV, but cause and effect were moving backwards. The episode began with the contestant winning the grand prize and lurched backwards ~5 minutes or so after 15-30 seconds of playing forward. If that wasn't enough, Bob Barker's small talk was my inner monologue. Several times the episode kept looping the same 15-30 second clip, only each time it looped the dialog was unique (everything else remained constant) and the dialog was my inner monologue.
My brain was thoroughly fried, I don't take anti-psychotics lightly. The only other psychoactive experience I've terminated with anti-psychotics was an MDE /MDMA roll, and it was strictly because I loathe MDE and wanted to abort as soon as I had a chance after I realized what was in the pills.
Thanks for the praise, from you and everyone else. I'm glad that my experience and writing was, at the very least, good an entertaining read for a lot of you.
As for submitting it to Erowid... I don't know how to put this without seeming like an asshole, but I'd really rather not have my experience on Erowid. I have a few personal issues with some of the content on Erowid--I feel like many of the trip reports are sub-part (to be kind) if not outright ridiculous. As I grew more experienced I started noticing misinformation on Erowid, and in the beginning I patiently e-mailed them corrections. "Ask Erowid" in particular is bogged down with subjective opinion that's all-to-often unbacked by any research whatsoever. What bothers me most is in some cases the answers are very casual in stating that they haven't bothered to research (let alone research objectively) before giving an opinionated answer.
Don't get me wrong, Erowid's a great source of basic information and is certainly a service to the community. I can certainly respect their erring on the side of caution, given that they're the first source of information for many drug-users. Hell I even framed the thank you letter I got when I made my donation, so there's no hate on my side, just respectful dissent.
Edit: Oops, looks like there's no superscript/subscript here unless I'm missing it. Here's a citation for the NMDA claim.
***"LSD and DOB: interaction with 5-HT2A receptors to inhibit NMDA receptor-mediated transmission in the rat prefrontal cortex". European Journal of Neuroscience. Volume 11 Issue 9 Page 3064 - September 1999
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Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
clamjuice said:
Conceptual physics is crazy stuff, it'll make you believe in a higher power if nothing else will. It's a completely different kind of physics than the average physicist is capable of...it takes a unique mind to grasp extremely abstract concepts (by the same token, it takes a unique mind to grasp all that fucking math too), and I don't claim to understand half it.
Spinoza's beliefs are the root of a lot of modern Pantheism, the notion that God is the universe and the laws of nature its commandments. Thus, we are all a part of God and God is a part of everything that exists. Scientific or Naturalistic pantheists (the belief system I subscribe to) believe that God is not necessarily omniscient, omnipotent, or even sentient. The common analogy used to explain it is to think of a single red blood cell in your body as analogous to yourself, and to think of your body as analogous to the universe. That blood cell(you) is a part of you/the universe, and its existence plays a small but important role in the upkeep of your body (the universe/God). From the blood cell's perspective (yours), it is an independent entity carrying out its life, unaware of the larger role it plays in your body (the universe/God). Similarly, you (the universe/God) is largely unaware of the deeds of this blood cell (you) and the role it plays in keeping you(the universe/God) living.
Xorkoth said:
I couldn't agree more, gaining perspective on life does wonders for one's ability to understand reality, and thereby function more efficiently within it. Too many people live out their lives fixated on a single world-view.
Echoes22 said:
Not to disrespect Jung, but in my experience all notable psychologists to date are more than a little bit insane--it's almost like a pre-requisite. I'm certainly aware that I'm either brilliant, insane, or a little bit of both, and wouldn't you know it, I'm a very enthusiastic student of psychology.
That being said, I don't think you can take everything Jung says too seriously. Personally, I think the concept of the Shadow self is one of his more noteworthy theories, but I don't buy in to his belief in archetypes. I could certainly modify them so that I'd agree with them and they'd still be recognizable, but in my mind it's a poorly-articulated and conceptually-complex theory, which leads to a lot of misunderstanding (not to say that you're misunderstanding anything).
I may be a little full of myself, but I feel as if I've integrated my shadow self and my ego. There's nothing dark about myself that I haven't made myself face, mentally.
Tool said:
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
zophen said:
fastandbulbous said:
Perhaps you can help identify the substance then. I'm 100% positive it is not LSD. I arrived at ALD-52 purely by the process of elimination, despite the issue of hydrolysis that you mention.
What I know about the substance:
1) It is without a doubt not LSD. I could go into why but it'd be a long discussion so I'd rather you could just take my word for that.
2) The substance came in the form of 5mm x 5mm blotter squares, perforated, inked on both sides and on a 25x40 hit sheet of the most beautiful blotter art I've ever seen. It's a faerie with two hummingbirds flying around her.
3) The blotter tastes bitter, but the bitterness is distinctly different from that of DOB.
4) The maximum dose 1 hit could contain is somewhere around 3000ug.
5) The substance is laid unevenly--some hits are ridiculously potent, some moderately strong, a very few weak. Under a black light the blotter not only fluoresces the distinct bright white that LSD fluoresces, but it does so in an uneven manner, with more intense florescence clearly following the lines of stains visible on the less-inked back side of the blotter. The lighter stained portions glow stronger.
6) After handling said blotter with the edges against two palms, a black light clearly illuminated bright white lines of florescence where the blotter was held. Finger tips are similarly stained after handling.
7) DOI, DOB and DOC do not fluoresce under UV light, as noted by Growfh earlier in this thread. DOM remains a possibility.
8) There is no nausea or stomach discomfort associated with this substance (consistent with LSD)
9) The substance is not 5-meo-amt. I would know, just trust me please.
10) The come up typically takes 30 minutes to 3 hours. The duration of 1 hit tends to be ~12 hours, with multiple hits reaching 18 to 24 hours.
11) There is the typical LSD-come up experience...that distinct feeling in the stomach, you know the one.
12) The substance is less visual than LSD, but the visuals are more intense. You really have to experience that to understand what the fuck it means, but I'm not the only one who's made that observation.
13) I have heard of 3 anecdotal cases of threshold level experiences being accidentally attained after handling said blotter. One of those experiences was my own and was not placebo. This suggests that the dose per hit is significantly below the 3mg level.
14) The visuals were distinctly tryptamine in quality, though I have not had personal experience with DO*.
15) It's received high praise in the community as the best "LSD" most have come across. Very few have mentioned that the experience was "Very much like LSD, but different, in a good way".
16) The blotter art in question is not widely available--I have not seen it in any blotter art database, in bluelight's gallery, nor described verbally on bluelight. It is certainly an expensive piece of art that someone has gone out of their way to obtain and it doesn't make sense to waste it.
17) Since it's not LSD, it's not 5-MeO-AMT, it's not DOI, DOB or DOC (on account of the florescence), that leaves DOM and ALD-52 by my count. If neither DOI, DOB nor DOC fluoresces, it seems unlikely to me that DOM would. Both MDMA and 2C-I flouresce the same exact pale yellow, I assume because of their structural similarity. I wouldn't expect a phenethylamine like DOM to break the pattern and flouresce bright white like a tryptamine.
18) Seems to me like the only thing left that fits the profile is ALD-52, despite issues that arise with that conclusion. I realized after I registered here that I know more about anti-psychotics these days than I do obscure tryptamines, so I'd love some input from anyone who thinks they can "name that chemical".
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
From the looks of it, it very well could be bromo dragonfly
fizzacyst
Bluelight Crew
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The ID thing doesn't really go over too well on BL usually, since we are just guessing unless you have had some analytical procedure done.
But I doubt it was DOM due it it having the highest dose of the common DOx substances.
I just stuck some pure, brilliant white DOC under a blacklight and while it isn't an in your face fluorescent shine, it still appears to fluoresce a bit due to the color.
Also, anything put on paper will do this if you add just a tiny bit of highlighter ink to the fluid, or any number of other compounds that will fluoresce. This is really a piss-poor ID method, IMO.
Anyone with access to decent printing equipment can make high quality original blotter art.
Also I have had liquid LSD spilled on my hand, and never fried at all, not even threshold. I'm not sure how much faith I put in the LSD going straight through your skin thing (now.. in contact with mucous membranes.. thats a diff story.).
But I doubt it was DOM due it it having the highest dose of the common DOx substances.
I just stuck some pure, brilliant white DOC under a blacklight and while it isn't an in your face fluorescent shine, it still appears to fluoresce a bit due to the color.
Also, anything put on paper will do this if you add just a tiny bit of highlighter ink to the fluid, or any number of other compounds that will fluoresce. This is really a piss-poor ID method, IMO.
Anyone with access to decent printing equipment can make high quality original blotter art.
Also I have had liquid LSD spilled on my hand, and never fried at all, not even threshold. I'm not sure how much faith I put in the LSD going straight through your skin thing (now.. in contact with mucous membranes.. thats a diff story.).
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
fizzacyst said:
1) Suggest an analytical procedure and I'll have it done. I was going to start by dissolving some in alcohol and evaporating it and seeing how much substance I get out of it. The dye might be a problem and I'm not sure how I'd separate that without a lot of work.
2) What color did DOC flouresce? White?
3) But why bother for some run of the mill rc?
4) Hands ---> mouth/eyes/nose
fizzacyst
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Aidan of TCC said:
Analytical procedure... GC/MS, or TLC of some sort if you have a reference.
The DOC was white, but not overly bright. Like a white t-shirt under blacklight.. toned down a bit.
Why bother adding fluorescent material to a run of the mill RC? To help convince people doing the "blacklight test" that they do indeed have LSD. I can't tell you how many people I've met that think this is solid proof of LSD.
I mention the LSD thing in another thread a few min ago, but it was on the back of my hand, rubbed in with the backof my other hand. I'd have worried about it rubbing off on my palms, none was on my fingertips (though I do have a tendency to bite my nails.)
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
fizzacyst said:
How would I prepare blotter for a GC/MS?
No, I mean why bother printing your own obviously professional blotter art for crappy rcs.
I tested a highlighter, it isn't the same kind of glow at all.
I bite my nails too, and it was on my fingers. I didn't believe the "trip from touching it" claim either, until I started tripping.
fizzacyst
Bluelight Crew
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You'd probably just have to give a tab to someone who has access to that sort of equipment, or send it off to some testing facility that would take an acid blotter. I don't know of any public entities that do that sort of thing aside from the "E" pill testers, and I don't think they do that.
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
fizzacyst said:
Access is not an issue, I just need to know how to prepare blotter for a gc/ms analysis, I assume I can't just hand them tabs.
Aidan of TCC
Bluelighter
djfriendly
Bluelighter
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^ Isn't that the truth? This is why I'm bitchy about guessing games in this and other forums.
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goldomega9
Bluelighter
Damn, sounds like a crazy trip. I doubt that 3 hits of potent acid would make anyone trip THAT hard. I dont know much about DOB or similar chemicals but im guessing you got something like that bc i have read that they are really dose-sensitive drugs and that they have a really long duration, similar to what your report indicates. Either way, your report is really good and it got me thinking a lot about the whole concept of time and theories about the creation of the universe, etc.
feelgoodhit
Bluelighter
what? i didn't know DOx compounds glow under blacklight? i actually had some blotter with a DOx compound on it recently - i put it under blacklight, & it didn't even glow enough for me to think it glowed... but it was obviously a strong hit of whatever it was.
nuke
Bluelighter
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Yeah, DOB rocked my world too, so much so that I've barely taken any psychedelics since. I couldn't keep cool on that compound at all (maybe because of the lack of 5HT1A agonism like with tryptamines or LSD), it was like a 30 hour freak out in my head that almost sent me to the hospital.
One of my friends took 10mg of the same stuff and had a blast, though. Another liked it at 1.5mg but then at 5mg he said it was too much (and he was known for his week long psych benders).
While LSD and DOB are both partial agonists, DOB seems to have the ability to create even greater excitation at 5HT2 than does LSD when the dose gets huge (it has better efficacy, some studies even mention it as a full agonist).
I believe fully that these two factors are 100% the reason why DOxs cause a lot more problems than does LSD or 2c-x (I've seen tons and tons of flip outs from DOxs)
One study I read put LSD at 30% efficacy, and DOB at 60-85% efficacy. (>80% is equal to full agonist)
One of my friends took 10mg of the same stuff and had a blast, though. Another liked it at 1.5mg but then at 5mg he said it was too much (and he was known for his week long psych benders).
While LSD and DOB are both partial agonists, DOB seems to have the ability to create even greater excitation at 5HT2 than does LSD when the dose gets huge (it has better efficacy, some studies even mention it as a full agonist).
I believe fully that these two factors are 100% the reason why DOxs cause a lot more problems than does LSD or 2c-x (I've seen tons and tons of flip outs from DOxs)
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ci/2ci_info1.shtml
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/246/3/924
One study I read put LSD at 30% efficacy, and DOB at 60-85% efficacy. (>80% is equal to full agonist)
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