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Do we really have souls?

L2R said:
in dreams you are not conscious.

but anyway that doesn't even matter because often when asleep, and especially when you have passed out from alcohol intoxication or under anaesthesia, you do not dream at all.

so, what happens to this "consciousness is eternal" assertion when there are clearly times when you are not conscious?
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Ohh so you are a sleeper huh?


I recommend you WAKE UP


Again AMNESIA is no excuse... You will pay the piper.
 
ok, so you avoid answering the question over and over in order to ignore the plain and obvious hole in your claim: it is not true.


good luck with that.
 
L2R said:
ok, so you avoid answering the question over and over in order to ignore the plain and obvious hole in your claim: it is not true.


good luck with that.
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We are conscious at all times... You can actually develop this consciousness and cross it over to your dreams....What happens then... THEN YOU WILL SEE!

The entire body is under conscious control. the heart beat...the immune system... the reproduction of blood cells... It takes years of mastery.

But wait.. you better go back to your televisions and be sure FOX news agrees with this.
 
nice condescension and amazing assumptions for someone so enlightened. 8).

this super power you have must suck if you have to go into surgery.
 
L2R said:
nice condescension and amazing assumptions for someone so enlightened. 8).

this super power you have must suck if you have to go into surgery.
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What the hell are you talking about? Honestly this post has no relevance what so ever.

There's no condescension here(by all means..please point it out)....and what's this about surgery? How did this pop into the discussion?

You seem to believe consciousness stops just because the physical body goes into 'sleep mode'.... Well I'm telling you, you're WRONG.
 
GodandLove said:
What the hell are you talking about? Honestly this post has no relevance what so ever.

There's no condescension here(by all means..please point it out)....and what's this about surgery? How did this pop into the discussion?

You seem to believe consciousness stops just because the physical body goes into 'sleep mode'.... Well I'm telling you, you're WRONG.
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If he's wrong, I assume you will have no issue in producing your proof :)

Surat Al-Baqarah chapter number 2, Verse Number 111:

"That is wishful thinking! Say! "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

GodandLove said:
Yes it most certainly does!

You obviously dream 'asleep' correct? You wake up with just fragments of unconscious memories... Similar to the alcoholic who drinks....goes on a rampage...but wakes up with unconscious memories..... Amnesia is no excuse... You will pay for ingonrence.
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You claim to be a man of God, yet, you haven't quoted a single verse from your scripture. Do you expect us to take your word for it?

All I heard from you was non-sense. Please provide quotations and detailed explanations to support your beliefs.
 
I'm unsure.

If there is something tying us all together back through the entire history of the human race it is the soul.

I believe we are all fractions of an expression.

Death may answer this question for me. If it doesn't, so what? I am already expired.
 
Well, we see that GodandLove keeps threatening people with Hell and punishment, yet he hasn't able to quote a single verse from his scripture, which he probably never read and is reading as we speak in order to find something relevant. I'm giving him his references that he's unable to produce:

The punishment he refers to with respect to the soul is found in Matthew, Chapter number 10, verse number 28:

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "

These are the words of Jesus, but guess what, Jesus also said in Mathew, Chapter 16, verse number 4:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

And Jesus never fulfills the sign of Jonah! How was Jonah when they threw him overboard? He volunteered! You know, if a person struggles, you might have to break his leg, twist his arm, but the man said I am guilty, throw me! So when they threw him he was? Alive! How was Jonah in the belly of the whale he was? Alive! How was Jonah when he was praying in the belly of the whale he was? Alive! Alive alive alive alive! A miracle of a miracle of a miracle.

As Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be in the heart of the Earth! Then you ask my practicing christian brothers, how was Jesus in the heart of the Earth, they say he was DEAD. He was DEAD. Jonah was alive. So Jesus is a liar! He never fulfills the prophecy. AHH but then Christian brothers say, it's the time factor. It's not a matter of alive or dead, it's about how long he stayed? WELL:

They take Jesus off the cross on Friday evening before the Sabbath because for Jews it was forbidden to hang anyone on the Sabbath. So Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night, and on Sunday morning, Mary Magdalen sees Jesus disguised as a Gardner! That's 2 nights and 2 days at best. So Jesus put all his eggs in one basket, the sign of Jonah, and never fulfilled it! So he lied! So what tells us that he didn't lie about the soul also?

You can go ahead and bring arguments, but, I assume it will be very hard since the holy man never read his holy book but, I give the brother a chance to explain himself as to why should anyone listen to what Jesus said, given the fact that he lied about fulfilling the sign of Jonah.
 
Knock off the thinly veiled spiritual threats please. There is no place for righteousness in this forum. If you can't discuss things in a civil way then your posts will be unapproved.

The scriptural quotes are OK as long as it pertains to the OP, but we're not turning this thread into scripture wars. Keep your posts relevant.
 
Ksa said:
Well, we see that GodandLove keeps threatening people with Hell and punishment, yet he hasn't able to quote a single verse from his scripture, which he probably never read and is reading as we speak in order to find something relevant. I'm giving him his references that he's unable to produce:

The punishment he refers to with respect to the soul is found in Matthew, Chapter number 10, verse number 28:

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "

These are the words of Jesus, but guess what, Jesus also said in Mathew, Chapter 16, verse number 4:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

And Jesus never fulfills the sign of Jonah! How was Jonah when they threw him overboard? He volunteered! You know, if a person struggles, you might have to break his leg, twist his arm, but the man said I am guilty, throw me! So when they threw him he was? Alive! How was Jonah in the belly of the whale he was? Alive! How was Jonah when he was praying in the belly of the whale he was? Alive! Alive alive alive alive! A miracle of a miracle of a miracle.

As Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be in the heart of the Earth! Then you ask my practicing christian brothers, how was Jesus in the heart of the Earth, they say he was DEAD. He was DEAD. Jonah was alive. So Jesus is a liar! He never fulfills the prophecy. AHH but then Christian brothers say, it's the time factor. It's not a matter of alive or dead, it's about how long he stayed? WELL:

They take Jesus off the cross on Friday evening before the Sabbath because for Jews it was forbidden to hang anyone on the Sabbath. So Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night, and on Sunday morning, Mary Magdalen sees Jesus disguised as a Gardner! That's 2 nights and 2 days at best. So Jesus put all his eggs in one basket, the sign of Jonah, and never fulfilled it! So he lied! So what tells us that he didn't lie about the soul also?

You can go ahead and bring arguments, but, I assume it will be very hard since the holy man never read his holy book but, I give the brother a chance to explain himself as to why should anyone listen to what Jesus said, given the fact that he lied about fulfilling the sign of Jonah.
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You know what.. I was gonna leave this whole thing alone.... I was gonna let you people wallow in your ignorance.

But after this ... I just

When did I ever EVER... Threaten anyone at anytime.... on these forums with 'hell and punishment'.... ever?

And what the funky FUNK does 'scripture' have to do with ANYTHING!

I spit on your scripture... It's just human words on paper..... The God's themselves even spit on your scripture.



And.. L2R as for me proving to you anything.... How about I give you the tools so that you can prove it to yourself?
 
L2R said:
in dreams you are not conscious.

but anyway that doesn't even matter because often when asleep, and especially when you have passed out from alcohol intoxication or under anaesthesia, you do not dream at all.

so, what happens to this "consciousness is eternal" assertion when there are clearly times when you are not conscious?
Click to expand...

This is another subject I don't understand. Could it be possible that under anesthesia all senory input is prevented and so is memory? Because I can't remember what I were doing at 10:15 last Tuesday but I've fairly sure I was conscious (if not asleep). So lack of memory does not equal lack of consciousness I think.
 
GodandLove said:
You know what.. I was gonna leave this whole thing alone.... I was gonna let you people wallow in your ignorance.

But after this ... I just

When did I ever EVER... Threaten anyone at anytime.... on these forums with 'hell and punishment'.... ever?

And what the funky FUNK does 'scripture' have to do with ANYTHING!

I spit on your scripture... It's just human words on paper..... The God's themselves even spit on your scripture.



And.. L2R as for me proving to you anything.... How about I give you the tools so that you can prove it to yourself?
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Remember that post where you told L2R that he would pay the piper? How about the one where you told him he would pay for his ignorance? Even now you claim we are wallowing in ignorance, why do you assume all non-believers are sad, lost individuals? I think everything you've been saying in this thread is straight insanity, I also live a quite happy, well informed life.

I've come across your type many times on forums, spouting off vague looniness as indisputable truth, refusing to back up your claims, using all caps to add emphasis to your oversimplified non answers... You ought to try staking out an actual claim and defending it in full sentences, maybe even a paragraph that's more than a single line...
 
GodandLove said:
You know what.. I was gonna leave this whole thing alone.... I was gonna let you people wallow in your ignorance.

But after this ... I just

When did I ever EVER... Threaten anyone at anytime.... on these forums with 'hell and punishment'.... ever?

And what the funky FUNK does 'scripture' have to do with ANYTHING!

I spit on your scripture... It's just human words on paper..... The God's themselves even spit on your scripture.



And.. L2R as for me proving to you anything.... How about I give you the tools so that you can prove it to yourself?
Click to expand...

No, you give us the tools. You claim that souls exist and that we will burn for our ignorance, the burden of proof is on you sir. What Gods? So you don't believe in one God, you believe there are many Gods? Your Gods, do they have a scripture you can quote?
 
EliCash said:
Remember that post where you told L2R that he would pay the piper? How about the one where you told him he would pay for his ignorance? Even now you claim we are wallowing in ignorance, why do you assume all non-believers are sad, lost individuals? I think everything you've been saying in this thread is straight insanity, I also live a quite happy, well informed life.

I've come across your type many times on forums, spouting off vague looniness as indisputable truth, refusing to back up your claims, using all caps to add emphasis to your oversimplified non answers... You ought to try staking out an actual claim and defending it in full sentences, maybe even a paragraph that's more than a single line...
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Way to take what I said out of context... Nice... I like your style.... How did you ever manage to get 'Hell and Punishment' out of ... You will pay for ignorance?

Please teach me these mental gymnastics.

Now I "assume all non-believers are sad, lost individuals" ....How are you doing this.... Putting speech into my posts?(putting words in my mouth)

I more amazed and in somewhat disbelief of all this context being added to my posts.

"Hell"

"Punishment"
 
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GodandLove said:
Way to take what I said out of context... Nice... I like your style.... How did you ever manage to get 'Hell and Punishment' our of ... You will pay for ignorance?

Please teach me these mental gymnastics.

Now I "assume all non-believers are sad, lost individuals" ....How are you doing this.... Putting speech into my posts?(putting words in my mouth)
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There is nothing to take out of context because you haven't quoted a line of your scripture so we can't take it out of context. You give us the context brother. You know, many people here fear God, or Gods, or...whatever, we wouldn't want to wind up in Hell so please tell us the name of your scripture and quote from it so we may abide by it and have a chance you know. Help your brothers :)
 
Ksa said:
There is nothing to take out of context because you haven't quoted a line of your scripture so we can't take it out of context. You give us the context brother. You know, many people here fear God, or Gods, or...whatever, we wouldn't want to wind up in Hell so please tell us the name of your scripture and quote from it so we may abide by it and have a chance you know. Help your brothers :)
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Oh my Christ.... I don't think I'm going to even bother with you.


How do you function?
 
G&L, until you can show me one example of a person who has conscious control over their heart and other automated functions, or any peer reviewed articles supporting your claims, i will continue to call you out on your bullshit.

the funny thing is is that we both think there is such a thing as a soul, but you are using rubbish to make that claim.
 
GodandLove said:
Oh my Christ.... I don't think I'm going to even bother with you.


How do you function?
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So you believe that Christ is God? Brother, show me a single unequivocal statement in the Bible where Jesus himself says "I am God" or "worship me" and I become a practicing Christian. You believe in God's or Gods, you believe in Jesus, although he never claimed divinity, might as well worship stones also...

You are in a haze brother, you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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